63 replies to this topic

[Requiem]

Is it right to say these are the current projectors of choice?

Hi everyone. I've been lurking and reading the forum here for a couple of weeks now, trying to find a replacement for my little Sharp PG-B10S which the rest of the family has become a slightly too attached to and essentially confiscated, heh. But browsing around here, its been a little hard to gleam people's current picks, given one projector being released before another tends to shape what's being talked about or compared to more at any given time. That, and I don't exactly know enough about these kinds of things. I know these topics have been done to death sorry but seeing as, from what I can gather, the bulk of the big names have their models out for this price range now, what's everyone's current personal pick? What is it that people like about one model over another?

Sorry, I hope this topic isn't too redundant, and thanks in advance for anyone that takes the time to reply...
Its just been painful trying to separate these on specs alone, so I thought some compiled comparisons might help.

[ocujos]

Everyone on these forums agrees that Sony HS60 is the best out of the ones listed in that link.
I've seen only the Epson TW600 (known as TW800 in US) and I must admit, it's definetely better than my Panasonic AE700.
If I was buying a pj right now, I would probably go for the Sony HS60 if the price is right.

[Jace]

ocujos, on Dec 27 2005, 11:45 AM, said:

Everyone on these forums agrees that Sony HS60 is the best out of the ones listed in that link.
I've seen only the Epson TW600 (known as TW800 in US) and I must admit, it's definetely better than my Panasonic AE700.
If I was buying a pj right now, I would probably go for the Sony HS60 if the price is right.

Everyone? Wow.  Thanks for speaking up for me.  What else do you want to decide is a universally accepted truth?

[aurora]

That list says the HS60 only has vertical lens shift.. it has horizontal also.

And its as good as the Z4 in range.

[Highjinx]

All the manufacturers you listed use the same HTPS panels(LCD) D5 maunfactured by Epson, except for Sony. Sony are on their 2nd generation of dynamic iris and have done an exceptional job of implimentation of it this time around. They also use a "High Contrast Plate" that does the obvious.

But audition all if possible, ensure the projectors are setup at their optimum(good Luck!). If the throw/offset works, along with screen size/gain contemplated, I too would lean heavily toward the Sony.

BTW don't be seduced by brightness!

[Tyrus]

For me it was the Sony.  But I don't think you'd be dissapointed with any of these.

[groboz]

I recently bought the Sanyo Z4 and I'm very happy with it. It is a little more expensive than the others but worth considering if picture sharpness is important to you.

I think the Epson TW 600 is the same as the US TW 550. You head into a higher price bracket with the TW 800 which I don't think is available here yet? I could be wrong on that, anyone here seen one yet?

Don't know about the Sony, but reports are favourable. I was considering the Panasonic 900 but prefered a sharper picture and was scared off by other peoples problems with the 700 (lamp life etc).

For me the Sanyo's 3 year warranty, auto lens cover, renoun picture sharpness and ease of set up was enough for me to make the jump. 6 months down the track there will be better but I couldn't wait any longer. BTW the PQ is great and no SDE but I've chosen a mid sized screen (92") so that wasn't an issue. If your considering sitting close to a bigger screen then you may notice the SDE. But it is a sharp picture!!

As already mention you really can't go too wrong with any of these. If (like me) you can't audition them yourself then forums like this one and checking the specs will be your best bet in picking the right projector for you - IMHO.  

Groboz

[foxtail]

groboz, on Dec 27 2005, 05:12 PM, said:

I think the Epson TW 600 is the same as the US TW 550. You head into a higher price bracket with the TW 800 which I don't think is available here yet? I could be wrong on that, anyone here seen one yet?

Groboz

I think you'll find the TW600 is the same specs as the TW800 in the US. These numbers are there just to confuse us!.

[groboz]

foxtail, on Dec 27 2005, 05:02 PM, said:

I think you'll find the TW600 is the same specs as the TW800 in the US. These numbers are there just to confuse us!.

At $4,500 US it can't be. I have seen it in other threads as having the same specs as the TW 550/600 but if I'm wrong my apologies in advance  

[ocujos]

Quote

Everyone? Wow. Thanks for speaking up for me. What else do you want to decide is a universally accepted truth?

All the experienced people on these forums have praised the Sony HS60.
I should've said most, not all.

[The_Preacher1973]

groboz, on Dec 27 2005, 06:18 PM, said:

At $4,500 US it can't be. I have seen it in other threads as having the same specs as the TW 550/600 but if I'm wrong my apologies in advance  

I thought the same as you. But compare the specs side by side. It would appear that the TW600 is the same hardware as the TW800 but with "lesser" firmware. The TW800 has different preset film modes and out of the box ISF calibration. Would this add extra cost as each machine would need to be calibrated before packaging to make up for manufacturing differences/tolerances?

I believe that if you calibrate the TW600 properly you should be able to turn it into a TW800 (or close enough). Brighter mids then ours on AVS forums believe this to be the case.

[Highjinx]

groboz, on Dec 27 2005, 07:18 PM, said:

At $4,500 US it can't be. I have seen it in other threads as having the same specs as the TW 550/600 but if I'm wrong my apologies in advance  

foxtail is right!.

In the US it's black, they throw in a extra globe, have a zero dead pixel policy and a few other sweetners and oh! they charge a huge premium for the extras.

The reason for the model number differences/colour difference is to try to minimise international internet sales from by giving the "impression" that it is a completely different model thus make the US buyers buy in the US. Sony does the same thing with the Sony HS60 where it is being released in the US as the HS51A....it has a small diference an ethernet port...but that's all!

It could be that Epson is also grooming the US buyers to be ready to pay a premium when C2fine projectors are released. After all the US is there single biggest market.


I wasn't aware of the firmware differences The Preacher speaks of. It's no biggie. Calibrating without the screen being in the equation is kind of par calibrating anyway!

Both the TW600 & the HS60 are bargains here. I think I'll hang till Jan CES to see how far away Bi-Na6 is though!

[anthonyc]

Jace, on Dec 27 2005, 11:14 AM, said:

Everyone? Wow.  Thanks for speaking up for me.  What else do you want to decide is a universally accepted truth?

Well for one, that you should be considering DLP projectors as well. Having auditioned several LCD projectors including the HS60 and Z3, I ended up with the Mitsub HC900 which is DLP and it was never in my original list. That was an overwhelming decision on a side by side test at my home with 6 different persons all picking the HC900 as well.

There are some short comings for my choice however this was minor issues that did not affect me. Brightness and contrast is a big factor more so over resolution IMHO and it showed in the end result of picture quality with this projector.

In the end make you own mind up by auditioning them all yourselves for your price range armed with the reviews (but taken with a grain of salt).

[Highjinx]

anthonyc, on Dec 27 2005, 08:37 PM, said:

Well for one, that you should be considering DLP projectors as well. Having auditioned several LCD projectors including the HS60 and Z3, I ended up with the Mitsub HC900 which is DLP and it was never in my original list. That was an overwhelming decision on a side by side test at my home with 6 different persons all picking the HC900 as well.

There are some short comings for my choice however this was minor issues that did not affect me. Brightness and contrast is a big factor more so over resolution IMHO and it showed in the end result of picture quality with this projector.

In the end make you own mind up by auditioning them all yourselves for your price range armed with the reviews (but taken with a grain of salt).

IMHO try to avoid side by side comparisons, the brighter projector will always(almost) appeal the most even though it may not be the best reproducer of the image. Your eyes iris will adjust to the brighter projector, making the less bright projector look dull in comparison....even thought it may reproduce the image in a more realistic manner.  

TV manufacturers have done this for years, set the colour temp high to appeal in the show room. Then one takes it home and adjusts the colour to a realistic level!.

Look at each projectors image individually and critically. Give your eyes adequate time to equalise before viewing another projectors image if it is in the same room. Once you have decided on the right projector for you and you feel you require more brightness, consider a screen with gain.

[Samhain]

ocujos, on Dec 27 2005, 11:45 AM, said:

Everyone on these forums agrees that Sony HS60 is the best out of the ones listed in that link.
I've seen only the Epson TW600 (known as TW800 in US) and I must admit, it's definetely better than my Panasonic AE700.
If I was buying a pj right now, I would probably go for the Sony HS60 if the price is right.

Umm everyone!???

EDIT: ahaha oh wait... that has been said already... but again... "all the experienced ppl have praosed the HS60" somehow does not translate to "all the experienced ppl think the HS60 is the best".... in fact, IIRC, I have not read too many statements to that degree AT ALL!!!???

Bleh...

Edited by Samhain, 27 December 2005 - 08:34 PM.

[Highjinx]

Hi Samhain..................are you guys at BPP stocking the HS60, if not currently do you intend to?. I'm in the market for one, providing Bi-Na6 is far away(more than a year).

Bi-NA6 is really appealing.........and inside info you care to share?

Thanks!

[anthonyc]

Highjinx, on Dec 27 2005, 08:10 PM, said:

IMHO try to avoid side by side comparisons, the brighter projector will always(almost) appeal the most even though it may not be the best reproducer of the image. Your eyes iris will adjust to the brighter projector, making the less bright projector look dull in comparison....even thought it may reproduce the image in a more realistic manner.  

TV manufacturers have done this for years, set the colour temp high to appeal in the show room. Then one takes it home and adjusts the colour to a realistic level!.

Look at each projectors image individually and critically. Give your eyes adequate time to equalise before viewing another projectors image if it is in the same room. Once you have decided on the right projector for you and you feel you require more brightness, consider a screen with gain.

Sorry I didn't explain how I tested but it was a side by side on the same lpmorgan 1.2 gain 100" screen, one at a time. I had the projectors for an entire long weekend and spent a lot of time calibrating them individually to the best of my ability and testing them using several different DVD's scenes from the same DVD source. So a bit of cred here, I didn't just walk off the street although I am no expert either.

My point was I went with something I wasn't looking at in my original list by auditioning it myself after a few professionals installers gave me advice. Not to start a DLP vs LCD war but using this forum to shortlist a bunch of projectors not realising how LCD bias some of the reviews were almost deprived me of the best choice for my budget at the time.

[Samhain]

Highjinx, on Dec 27 2005, 09:43 PM, said:

Hi Samhain..................are you guys at BPP stocking the HS60, if not currently do you intend to?. I'm in the market for one, providing Bi-Na6 is far away(more than a year).

Bi-NA6 is really appealing.........and inside info you care to share?

Thanks!

Heya Highjinx...

Hmm at this stage we are sticking with the TW600 and the Z4, those machine fill out our "bang for buck" LCD category well.

No inside info in the new sony panels sorry, except that one peice of info I was swarn to secrecy on....






Just joking :-)







Or am I? <insert evil laugh here>  :ph34r:

[RXV3000]

Hey Requiem

Firstly welcome.  Secondly the choice YOU are about to make is a big one, so in light of this make sure you take in as much information from everybody here and from other forums and reviews, but remember at the end of the day the choice is yours, it is what you like, what suits your needs and budget.  

Not everyone's opinion on this forum is correct and is not shared by all even though they say it is.  I've only just made my choice, and this was from visiting that many stores (Thanks to Samhain) I'd hate to think how much time it has taken, but at the end of the day I have found what I want, what suits my needs, and budget.  Get out and take a few DVD's that you know really well, and demo your short list for yourself.  Don't take for gospel what some people say here either, "It's your Choice"!!

Jas

Edited by RXV3000, 27 December 2005 - 09:42 PM.

[foxtail]

Welcome to the TW600 fold RXV3000. Do you have it set up yet?, what do you think and what screen - and gain) are you using.?.

Highjinx, on Dec 27 2005, 07:20 PM, said:

foxtail is right!.

In the US it's black, they throw in a extra globe, have a zero dead pixel policy and a few other sweetners and oh! they charge a huge premium for the extras.

The reason for the model number differences/colour difference is to try to minimise international internet sales from by giving the "impression" that it is a completely different model thus make the US buyers buy in the US. Sony does the same thing with the Sony HS60 where it is being released in the US as the HS51A....it has a small diference an ethernet port...but that's all!

It could be that Epson is also grooming the US buyers to be ready to pay a premium when C2fine projectors are released. After all the US is there single biggest market.
I wasn't aware of the firmware differences The Preacher speaks of. It's no biggie. Calibrating without the screen being in the equation is kind of par calibrating anyway!

Both the TW600 & the HS60 are bargains here. I think I'll hang till Jan CES to see how far away Bi-Na6 is though!

I am?, from the specs other than the firmware difference mentioned I thought I was.

[Highjinx]

foxtail, on Dec 28 2005, 07:12 AM, said:

Welcome to the TW600 fold RXV3000. Do you have it set up yet?, what do you think and what screen - and gain) are you using.?.
I am?, from the specs other than the firmware difference mentioned I thought I was.

I said you were Right...er......Correct!

Samhain, on Dec 27 2005, 10:18 PM, said:

Heya Highjinx...

Hmm at this stage we are sticking with the TW600 and the Z4, those machine fill out our "bang for buck" LCD category well.

No inside info in the new sony panels sorry, except that one peice of info I was swarn to secrecy on....
Just joking :-)
Or am I? <insert evil laugh here>  :ph34r:

Ohhh!............you had me ol'heart beatin' fast then!

anthonyc, on Dec 27 2005, 10:10 PM, said:

Sorry I didn't explain how I tested but it was a side by side on the same lpmorgan 1.2 gain 100" screen, one at a time. I had the projectors for an entire long weekend and spent a lot of time calibrating them individually to the best of my ability and testing them using several different DVD's scenes from the same DVD source. So a bit of cred here, I didn't just walk off the street although I am no expert either.

My point was I went with something I wasn't looking at in my original list by auditioning it myself after a few professionals installers gave me advice. Not to start a DLP vs LCD war but using this forum to shortlist a bunch of projectors not realising how LCD bias some of the reviews were almost deprived me of the best choice for my budget at the time.

Good points Anthony. Great to hear you purchased the projector that suited you needs the most. I had a loan of a NEC HT1000/1100 some time ago, excellent image........but caused me fatigue when viewing for extended periods and the occational pot o'gold indicator!

I'm a three chipper from now on!..........be it DLP, LCD, Lcos/Sxrd!........now only if I could afford one!

[The_Preacher1973]

Highjinx, on Dec 28 2005, 10:49 AM, said:

I'm a three chipper from now on!..........be it DLP, LCD, Lcos/Sxrd!........now only if I could afford one!

You missed out one other 3 chipper out there Highjinx. Good 'ol CRT. These are available quite cheaply these days, and while I wouldn't recommend them to many people (in fact I've never recommended them to anyone), you sound quite geeky enough to run one and enjoy tweaking it. How many other PJ's tell you to adjust the focus using only one hand in the PJ so as to avoid creating a circuit through your heart?

[RXV3000]

foxtail, on Dec 28 2005, 07:12 AM, said:

Welcome to the TW600 fold RXV3000. Do you have it set up yet?, what do you think and what screen - and gain) are you using.?.
I am?, from the specs other than the firmware difference mentioned I thought I was.

Hey Foxy,

Haven't got it yet, saving at the moment   .  But have made my mind up that the Epson is the way to go   .  All I have to do now is decide on which screen and DVD (with DVI or HDMI) to go for.  

Jas

[Highjinx]

The_Preacher1973, on Dec 28 2005, 09:24 PM, said:

You missed out one other 3 chipper out there Highjinx. Good 'ol CRT. These are available quite cheaply these days, and while I wouldn't recommend them to many people (in fact I've never recommended them to anyone), you sound quite geeky enough to run one and enjoy tweaking it. How many other PJ's tell you to adjust the focus using only one hand in the PJ so as to avoid creating a circuit through your heart?

Hi Preach!..............I did too!. Some time ago, I met this guy(Hi Ron!)at a place I was doing some temp work at. His wife had been given......for free......from her church a Sony CRT FP 2030, if I recall correctly, because it had a "crack" in one of the tubes. The church was told it would be cheaper to buy a new projector than to fix it. This was sitting in his garage as there was no room to set it up in his home....he had a RP CRT Hitachi anyway. We got talking. Two days later, I bet, realising I was a complete luddite and wanting to confuse the hell out of me, he knocks on my door, screen and projector in tow. You can keep this he says for as long as you like!

To cut a long story short, set it up, only via lowly composite though. The image was a tad murky......focus was a bit off no matter how hard I tried, maybe it was the crack!...anyway a bit of raster leveling, convergence adjusting etc, now where was this crack they were talking about..........damn! it was a bit of lens fungus on the blue tube.

The tubes were liquid coupled.

"Hey Ron, I can drain and filter the coolant fluid, gently prise off the glass, clean the fungus, reseal the front glass to the tubes etc"

The look of terror on his face was priceless!......sorry MrPace! Needless to say I didn't proceed.

Played with it for sometime. I'm from foxy's school of thought, I like things nice and tidy in the long run, short term, what the heck!.....this huge box(relatively speaking) sitting at a unmoveable fixed distance.......where is the zoom!?.......from the screen right in the middle of the room was too much for the asethetic senses to bear...............so it went back to live in Mr Pace's garage!

If I had the room......and the money......I'd love to play with one of the old and now discontinued, Hughes-JVC HD ILA Pure Analogue projectors. Big as a Blue Whale and had the mass of a Black Hole!

This was their top of the range unit.........not HT though:

http://www.projector...JVC-ILA-12K.htm

This was one of their near HT! units:  

http://www.projector...s-JVC-320SC.htm

[ocujos]

Quote

I'd love to play with one of the old and now discontinued, Hughes-JVC HD ILA Pure Analogue projectors. Big as a Blue Whale and had the mass of a Black Hole!

...and it also needs a Nuclear power plant to power it  
According to the specs for the 12k model the max power is 12480W (thus the name 12k   ) !!!!  
The brightness is 12000 (thousands) ANSI Lumens!!! No problems with brightness here, should be visible from Mars