106 replies to this topic

[pgdownload]

The Toppy has long been touted the 'king' of PVRs but several new models are due out that in coming months that may challange that label. First off the block is the New Humax Smart PVR. You can find more indepth reviews and comments on this machine in other threads, particularly here:

http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=27002

This post simply looks at the main diferences between the traditional TF5000PVRt and the Humax Smart.

Note other Toppy machines to consider are the $100 more expensive MP (160G drive and battery backed up clock). Also the $650 (or so) 4400 which is probably a better direct comparison with the Humax (Only 80G drive but it has no TAPs or EPG ).

Essentially the two machines will operate in a pretty similar mode. The Toppy has more scope for playing around with via TAPs (user developed utilities) and is the only option if you really want a 7 day EPG. Otherwise most of the other differences are fairly cosmetic.

Main similarities:

1) Both machines are TRUE twin tuners - You can timer record two channels simultaneously while watching playback of a third.

2) Both machines can be bought instore for around $700-$800 (The Toppy is currently (10 Dec 2005) costing around $100 more than the Humax to buy - Christmas should see further price shake ups though)

Main differences:

1) Toppy comes with a 120G drive, Humax with 160G - It would seem upgrading the harddrive in either machine is relatively simple.

2) The Humax only allows you to stop a Timer recording while the recording underway - this doesn't affect manually started recordings. The Toppy allows you to view, pause and rewind a all recordings while the recording is still in progress. There is a UK model patch that fixes this issue, no word on if the Oz model will be similarly updated (6 June 2006)

3) The Toppy has a published programming language. A large number of user developed TAPs (utilities) can be uploaded and used to fix firmware bugs or provide additional capabilities. The Humax will never have this capacity.

4) Item 3 above means a 7 day EPG can be setup on the Toppy (although it can take a bit of additional setup). The toppy is also compatible with EPG provider ICE.  

5) Both the Toppy and Humax can download recorded shows via its USB for PC based manipulation and burning. Note this is not a primary (supported) functionality of either machine.

6) FF and REW. The Humax has a smooth implimentation of this (for x2 to x64). The Toppy effectively has a max FF REW speed of x4 and it is somewhat jerky. The Toppy uses a SKIP process more.  The Humax has an SKIP button too, although it is very unfortunately located under the remote slide panel (which can be permanently removed). The Toppy allows a fixed 30 seconds forward & limited 10 seconds back (only during live timeshifting). The Humax allows a variable skip forward and back. TAPs on the Toppy allow for many variations of precise forward and back ad skipping.

7) Humax only uses Autotime. The Toppy has an auto or manual time option. It is unconfirmed if the Humax on Autotime is susceptible to timers mis-firing because of very occassional (once every few months?) bad time stamps being sent. The Toppy is very prone to this problem - Read the AQA FAQ for information on how to fix it.

8) The Humax performs better then the Toppy when recovering from a power failure if in STANDBY. The Toppy simply loses track of time until manually rebooted. The Humax reboots, gets the time from the broadcaster and returns to STANDBY. If the Toppy is left on 24/7 then it will properly recover from power failure. Edit: The 5000 / MP Toppies can now be patched to force the units to wake up after a power failure. The 4400 still can not though.

9) Humax users should be aware that while it is possible to set overlapping timers for the same channel the later recording will simply fail.

Hope that helps any prospective purchasers make up their mind.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Thanks to JPP and TassieD for buying, testing and reporting on the Humax.

[tonygib]

So, am I the only one old enough to remember that Humax always used to be called, Ham'n'eggs and generally ment cheap cr*p, or has something changed.

PS. In the case of point 5, the Toppy having the USB was the exact main reason for me buying it at the time, and since no others had that, it narrowed the choice down pretty fast

[NaughtyNanna]

pgdownload, on Dec 5 2005, 07:02 AM, said:

The basic Toppy/Humax SKIP is fairly clumsy (forward only) - TAPs on the Toppy allow forward and back for precise ad skipping.

Hi Peter

Hard to remember the "out of the box" Toppy features pre PBK, but didn't the blue button always allow skipping back 10 sec?

Regards
Jan

[foxtail]

A big reason I bought a Toppy was it has the bugs ironed out, owners rave about them unlike many other brands, rare to see the Toppy 5000pvr on eBay says something, I'm not going to be a guinea pig for anyone... yoink yoink.

[pgdownload]

NaughtyNanna, on Dec 5 2005, 01:34 PM, said:

Hi Peter, Hard to remember the "out of the box" Toppy features pre PBK, but didn't the blue button always allow skipping back 10 sec? RegardsJan

Quite correct Jan.

Thanks

Peter Gillespie

[big_marcelo]

foxtail, on Dec 5 2005, 01:41 PM, said:

A big reason I bought a Toppy was it has the bugs ironed out, owners rave about them unlike many other brands, rare to see the Toppy 5000pvr on eBay says something, I'm not going to be a guinea pig for anyone... yoink yoink.

that's true - I haven't seen a used Toppy on ebay yet..... people tend to keep it as a second unit even after upgrading to a HD recorder like Toshiba (that said... most come back to the toppy for reliability...)

[ToeCutter]

I'd rather have the reliable and superior unit than save $100-.

[Timmy Downawell]

Same here... but 64x FF would be VERY welcome! Sheesh... even 10x FF would be good! *sigh*

[rob3827]

tonygib, on Dec 5 2005, 10:45 AM, said:

So, am I the only one old enough to remember that Humax always used to be called, Ham'n'eggs and generally ment cheap cr*p, or has something changed.

Err, .... that was Hanimex, an Australian slide projector manufacturer .... <snip> <edit>

Humax is nicknamed Hummy, a name original given to it by satellite TV users. Humax has been producing digital satellite decoders for about 10 years. Their software support seems to be pretty good.

http://www.humaxdigital.com/global/

I have used several Humax products. None have ever given any problems.

[Donald]

NaughtyNanna, on Dec 5 2005, 01:34 PM, said:

Hi Peter

Hard to remember the "out of the box" Toppy features pre PBK, but didn't the blue button always allow skipping back 10 sec?

Regards
Jan

Not quite, Jan - the "out of the box" behaviour of the Blue Button only worked during timeshift, not when watching a currently recording or previously recorded show.  PBK has allowed us to configure consistent behaviour for buttons across the 3 playing modes.

[tonygib]

rob3827, on Dec 7 2005, 02:12 AM, said:

Err, .... that was Hanimex, an Australian slide projector manufacturer .... they are long gone.

hmmm, don't think it was that, seem to remember more stuff then just slide projectors, but maybe I'm getting too old  

Either way, if its a company thats been around for a bit and generally good stuff then thats Ok.

[DigitalObserver]

tonygib, on Dec 7 2005, 12:33 PM, said:

hmmm, don't think it was that, seem to remember more stuff then just slide projectors, but maybe I'm getting too old  

Either way, if its a company thats been around for a bit and generally good stuff then thats Ok.

From their web site: http://www.hanimex.com.au/
" For more than 30 years, Fujifilm products have been distributed in Australia by Hanimex Pty Ltd. However, since the Hanimex brand is now owned by FUJIFILM Australia Pty Ltd, Hanimex products are distributed by FUJIFILM Australia Pty Ltd. Renowned for innovative technology and a commitment to quality and choice, Fujifilm offers an extensive product collection for all standards of enthusiasts ranging from novice to professional photographers."

Products

    * Professional Photographics
          o Fujifilm Cameras
          o Fujifilm
          o Printing Material
          o Pro News
          o Dealers/Distributors
    * Consumer Photographics
          o Fujifilm
          o Minilabs & Supplies
    * Digital Photographics
          o Consumer
                + Fujifilm Digital Cameras
                + Digital Printers
                + Digital Accessories
                + Online Support & FAQ
                + News
          o Commercial
                + Digital Printers
                + Scanners
                + Software Updates
                + Online Support & FAQ
    * Medical
          o Products
    * Computer Products
    * Motion Picture

[rob3827]

DigitalObserver, on Dec 7 2005, 11:43 AM, said:

.... Hanimex products are distributed by FUJIFILM Australia Pty Ltd. Renowned for innovative technology and a commitment to quality and choice, Fujifilm offers an extensive product collection for all standards of enthusiasts ranging from novice to professional photographers."

Oooops, sorry. I stand corrected. Hadn't heard the Hanimex brand name mentioned anywhere recently.

[Skysurfer]

rob3827, on Dec 7 2005, 07:27 PM, said:

Oooops, sorry. I stand corrected. Hadn't heard the Hanimex brand name mentioned anywhere recently.

You haven't been corrected about anything. Hanimex did sell slide projectors, and its nick name was ham'neggs.

[rob3827]

Skysurfer, on Dec 8 2005, 08:47 AM, said:

You haven't been corrected about anything. Hanimex did sell slide projectors, and its nick name was ham'neggs.

He, he.

Now back to the Hummy. :-)

Has anyone actually seem a Humax PVR-Smart in store anywhere? Bing Lee is a big seller of Humax products but I have yet to see the new model in a Bing Lee Sydney store. It is not listed on their computer stock list yet.

[PVR guy]

It was old Humax engineers that left and started Topfield in Korea.

[rob3827]

rob3827, on Dec 8 2005, 10:01 AM, said:

Has anyone actually seem a Humax PVR-Smart in store anywhere?

A Sydney Retravision store said last night that they should have some in 'next Wednesday-ish'.

[Riggi]

With the Humax, is it possible to transfer files from the PC to the PVR to view on your tv?
Apart from transferring from Toppy to PC for burning to DVD, I do a fair bit of transferring the other way when I download shows from the internet and then convert to rec files and transfer to the Toppy to watch on my tv rather than have to watch onthe PC monitor...

Without this functionality I'd have to burn to DVD in order to watch on the TV...

Rich

[Tassie Devil]

Nice impartial comparison Peter.

The Toppy vs Hummy feelings of some posters here are as futile as the Holden vs Falcon arguments that some immature people like to involve themselves in.  Both are very good cars and excellent value with advantages-disadvantages of each a swings and roundabouts situation.

Similarly both the Toppy and Hummy PVRs are very good and the devil is in the detail with certain of these details being more important for some than others.  If you are into computers then the Toppy is the logical choice at the moment.

But as a "normal" consumer product, my judgement is that the Hummy is better value with its lower price and larger HD.  OK, you can increase the size of the HD in the Toppy at extra cost but that makes it even poorer value.  And the 4x FF speed of the Toppy would really bug me.  The 16X FF of the Hummy slips through the junk very quickly.  But the unavailability of a recording until over is a negative although it rarely bothers me with so much archived programming to catch up on.  But it is obviously important to some people.

However, Toppy owners, please do not feel insulted by the above and rise in passionate defence of it.  The Toppy is a very good product and if the Hummy had not appeared I would have eventually got one when prices dropped to more reasonable levels.

As I had the misfortune to be given a used scratched unit, I'm presently awaiting a replacement so am back to the Strong 5390 PVR.  However its clunky FF and other idiosynchracies will not be missed when the new Huimmy replacement arrives.  That said, the Strong yields superb picture quality and the Hummy is no better in that area.  And I do not like the optical digital audio out on the Hummy but that is a detail of little bother to most people.

John

[pgdownload]

Finalised comparison above. Added a link to this thread in the AQA FAQ.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[directordave]

[quote name='Tassie Devil' date='Dec 14 2005, 08:03 AM' .... the optical digital audio out on the Hummy but that is a detail of little bother to most people.

John
[/quote]


What's not to like about the optical out?
Just curious...

dave

[BigBobOz]

Probably no optical inputs on his amp or none available  

[iggypop]

Riggi, on Dec 12 2005, 09:59 AM, said:

With the Humax, is it possible to transfer files from the PC to the PVR to view on your tv?
Apart from transferring from Toppy to PC for burning to DVD, I do a fair bit of transferring the other way when I download shows from the internet and then convert to rec files and transfer to the Toppy to watch on my tv rather than have to watch onthe PC monitor...

Without this functionality I'd have to burn to DVD in order to watch on the TV...

Rich

Sorry a bit off topic...

Rich,
Why don't you buy a DIVX DVD player to play files that you have downloaded?  Burn to rewriteable dvds without conversion (as I do) has to be easier than converting to .REC and uploading to the toppy.
Telefunken have a nice model sold in Target for $99 on special.  It also has a CF slot and USB port.  I put 5 movies on a disk to keep the kids happy on rainy days.  Just a suggestion.

[Riggi]

I haven't really considered it...
I guess I've been a bit wary of the cheap dvd players (I have a fairly cheap progressive scan Palsonic - but it works great- plays a lot of dodgy dvd's my old player didn't like - and has component out)

I might have to look into it... are there any issues with having to update codecs or anything like that?

So you just burner the avi file to dvd and then play the avi on the player?

Rich

[Tassie Devil]

BigBobOz, on Dec 15 2005, 12:22 PM, said:

Probably no optical inputs on his amp or none available  

Not quite.  2 reasons -

1. My prejudice is that RCA digital out gives better quality audio, a prejudice held by quite a few others.

2.  The Meridian 861 controller has a digital audio card in with lots of RCA digital inputs but only one optical.  The DVDO has 2 optical inputs so I use them and feed the RCA digital out back into the 861.  This gives me a total of 3 optical inputs and these are now fully utilised - two by the Pioneer DVD-Rs & the last by the Hummy.

But that is all academic at the moment as the replacement Hummy is unlikely to arrive here until next week .

John