315 replies to this topic

[mtv]

alanh, on Mar 5 2011, 01:00 AM, said:

MTV,
You missed out on this one.

Meaning what exactly?

I'm well aware of the Mt Tassie setup and what's required for reception..... so what's your point?

[mjt57]

I fitted a Digimatch Digital TV Antenna. The box says that it's "HDTV Compliant".

[alanh]

Col,
Your post refers to FM interference as being the problem it is not. It is the analog transmitter for the ABC. This is the most powerful transmitter on the tower and fortunately it will be switched off on 15th May, so his problem should disappear. This will occur because he has no other problems on any other channels. The commercials and SBS have lower power in the analog transmissions.

A classic case of where theory wins.

MJI
Please read the first post in this strand. I hope that none of the elements had to be bent out at right angles to the thick boom. If so you have bought an antenna for Melbourne not for your area. As you can see from above if you do nothing your problem will be solved on 15 th May this year.

AlanH

[mjt57]

alanh, on Mar 5 2011, 03:01 PM, said:

Please read the first post in this strand. I hope that none of the elements had to be bent out at right angles to the thick boom. If so you have bought an antenna for Melbourne not for your area. As you can see from above if you do nothing your problem will be solved on 15 th May this year.

I'll go back to the start and have a read.

In the meantime the antenna was bought from a local TV repair and installation shop. They probably do the majority of such work around here. Also, authorised repairers for the likes of Panasonic, Samsung and LG. So, they should know what they're doing.

I didn't have to bend any of the elements. Just screw this reflector thingy onto it and then mount it to the hockey stick.

[mjt57]

alanh, on May 16 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

Matchmaster catalog
02MM-DR18B Channels 28 – 50 12 – 14 dB

This appears to be the antenna that I have installed. Certainly, it looks very similar.

[mtv]

alanh, on Mar 5 2011, 03:01 PM, said:

Col,
Your post refers to FM interference as being the problem it is not. It is the analog transmitter for the ABC. This is the most powerful transmitter on the tower and fortunately it will be switched off on 15th May, so his problem should disappear. This will occur because he has no other problems on any other channels. The commercials and SBS have lower power in the analog transmissions.

A classic case of where theory wins.

AlanH

Once again, you are fabricating things that were never said.

I never said FM interference 'IS' the problem, just that it 'CAN' cause interference, as 'CAN' 'ANY' overloading signal, of which you are agreeing with me.

The focus is on how the Pana recorder deals with strong/weak signals, which like most things you comment on, you have no practical experience with.

BTW, when something actually happens, it's reality, so theory can certainly become reality, but at the end of the day, it's what happens in reality that wins.  

Oh, and whilst you're being anal about things, the analogue switchoff date for the Latrobe Valley, is 5th May, 2011, not 15th May as you stated.

http://www.digitalre...p/Victoria.aspx

[jrp001]

alanh, on Mar 5 2011, 02:01 PM, said:

A classic case of where theory wins.


AlanH

alanh as long as it's not like your brick wall theory in the antenna design basics thread.

You said
The other characteristics of electromagnetic radiation including light and TV transmissions is that the polarisation rotates by 90 degrees. Thus a reflected signal becomes vertically polarised.

If there is a large wall in the right place then a phased array mounted with its longest axis horizontal.

[alanh]

mjt,
As I said on the 15th May your problem will go, particularly when you have a band 4+ antenna. The FM signals will not be anywhere as strong as the interference from ABC analog.

If you are impatient, you could try an attenuator for a few dollars.

AlanH

[M'bozo]

Getting back on topic:

mjt57, on Mar 4 2011, 02:06 PM, said:

New antenna supplied by local TV installers (they're also authorised Panasonic agents and checked out the unit), quad shield cabling, F type connectors, etc.

Presumably, you used appropriate instrumentation to check the signal levels.

mjt57, on Mar 4 2011, 02:06 PM, said:

Apparently the Panasonic is susceptible to dodgy signals.

As I pointed out here.

and read panasales comment from another forum.

mjt57, on Mar 4 2011, 02:06 PM, said:

When it happens I check the reception on the TV and on the Mystar HD PVR. While they're still working, receiving Ten/OneHD etc. it's breaking up, popping audio, and so on.

Are these devices running separately from the Panny? (ie, they are not daisy chained from the RF output of the Panasonic recorder.)

Edited by M'bozo, 06 March 2011 - 08:50 AM.

[M'bozo]

beeblebrox, on Mar 4 2011, 05:29 PM, said:

I've encountered a number of problems with signal overload with these panasonic recorders, any signal coming into the recorder greater than about 75db (analogue or digital) seems to cause problems for these boxes or on the rf out of these boxes and it seems to affect only certain channels  wth no rhyme nor reason to which one...

I've experienced issues when the signal level is below this, with 18 channels from the antenna. (UHF, main + translator, analogue + digital)

They seem to have problems with adjacent channels, as well.

[Tahoma]

mjt57, on Mar 4 2011, 01:06 PM, said:

Panasonic BDR-780 Blu-ray HDD recorder.

New antenna supplied by local TV installers (they're also authorised Panasonic agents and checked out the unit), quad shield cabling, F type connectors, etc.

I live about 20km line of sight from Mt Tassie.

It only happens on the Ten Vic channels. Prime, WIN, ABC and SBS channels appear to be fine.

Apparently the Panasonic is susceptible to dodgy signals. When it happens I check the reception on the TV and on the Mystar HD PVR. While they're still working, receiving Ten/OneHD etc. it's breaking up, popping audio, and so on.

Hi mjt57,

Just to clarify, you say you have a Mystar HD which as far as I know doesn't have an RF modulator just an RF    
loop through. I that correct?
If it's a non HD MYSTAR it WILL have an RF modulator which may be set to channel 39 the SCTEN digital channel or Ch.38 or 40? which may be causing your problem.

Could state which path the aerial signal takes.

Tahoma.

[mjt57]

Tahoma, on Mar 6 2011, 06:04 PM, said:

Hi mjt57,

Just to clarify, you say you have a Mystar HD which as far as I know doesn't have an RF modulator just an RF    
loop through. I that correct?

It supposedly has twin FTA HD tuners and twin satellite tuners. It also has one single RF input and one output.

I have the antenna going into the Panasonic, then out from it into the Mystar, then out from the Mystar into the Panasonic LCD TV.

This allows me to watch the TV's FTA channels without having to go through the MystarHD or the Panasonic if I can't be bothered turning them on.

When I'm seeing dodgy Ten Vic/OneHD/Eleven signals on the Pana the TV and the Mystar are working fine. Sometimes the Mystar may also lose signal from the Ten TX. The TV, never. It must have the best tuner, and it's also last in the daisy chain.

As an aside, despite the MystarHD having 4 tuners, I can only record two shows at once.

[joshl]

mjt57, on Mar 8 2011, 09:58 AM, said:

It supposedly has twin FTA HD tuners and twin satellite tuners. It also has one single RF input and one output.

I have the antenna going into the Panasonic, then out from it into the Mystar, then out from the Mystar into the Panasonic LCD TV.

This allows me to watch the TV's FTA channels without having to go through the MystarHD or the Panasonic if I can't be bothered turning them on.

When I'm seeing dodgy Ten Vic/OneHD/Eleven signals on the Pana the TV and the Mystar are working fine. Sometimes the Mystar may also lose signal from the Ten TX. The TV, never. It must have the best tuner, and it's also last in the daisy chain.

As an aside, despite the MystarHD having 4 tuners, I can only record two shows at once.

Im guessing from the above comments your antenna was installed by a local antenna company E & B they are awe full at doing digital installs a couple of old blokes who had a rough idea of analogue but no idea of digital, they dont even uses a digital meter to get the best reception, just check out the neighbors install that will do sort of theory worked okay with analogue but not necessarily with digital.

My suggestion get a decent installer around and they'll fix the problem no worries.

[M'bozo]

mjt57, on Mar 8 2011, 10:58 AM, said:

When I'm seeing dodgy Ten Vic/OneHD/Eleven signals on the Pana the TV and the Mystar are working fine. Sometimes the Mystar may also lose signal from the Ten TX. The TV, never. It must have the best tuner, and it's also last in the daisy chain.

Probably a strong adjacent channel analogue signal above or below the Ten Vic digital channel. (certainly something I have experienced, where the recorder has problems, and downstream items less so)

joshl, on Mar 8 2011, 06:20 PM, said:

Im guessing from the above comments your antenna was installed by a local antenna company

Pretty sure mjt57 self-installed the antenna.

[mjt57]

Correct. I bought the antenna and fittings from E & B, but put it up myself.

As a bit of an update, a few days down the track and the Panasonic's tuners have been working OK, no issues with Network 10 channels.

Joshl, who would you recommend other than E & B?

[joshl]

mjt57, on Mar 14 2011, 10:13 AM, said:

Correct. I bought the antenna and fittings from E & B, but put it up myself.

As a bit of an update, a few days down the track and the Panasonic's tuners have been working OK, no issues with Network 10 channels.

Joshl, who would you recommend other than E & B?

Mjt57, i would probably recommend Gippsland Antennas or simtech, but in saying that anyone who uses a digital terrestrial meter to get the best digital reception for you
should get a good result.

[jrp001]

joshl, on Mar 14 2011, 10:49 AM, said:

Mjt57, i would probably recommend Gippsland Antennas or simtech, but in saying that anyone who uses a digital terrestrial meter to get the best digital reception for you
should get a good result.

I dont think anyone that uses a digital terrestrial meter can give you the best result.

You recommend simtech......how long have they been around for?

As for gippsland antenna's, i have seen one of there job's (threshold)

Edited by jrp001, 15 March 2011 - 10:13 PM.

[joshl]

jrp001, on Mar 15 2011, 10:07 PM, said:

I dont think anyone that uses a digital terrestrial meter can give you the best result.

You recommend simtech......how long have they been around for?

As for gippsland antenna's, i have seen one of there job's (threshold)

Your right just because your using a digital meter doesn't  mean your going to get the best results, but generally you can get a better result or sort a better result then just throwing up an antenna and
pointing it in the right direction.

Simtech is a reasonably new company but the blokes involved have been working in this field for years working previously for an audio visual retailer in traralgon.

I personally use gippsland antenna's for a few of my jobs i need then for and have had no issues.

[mtv]

A meter is just one necessary tool an installer must have.

Anyone can buy them, however, a proficient installer must have a thorough knowledge of RF transmision and receiving priciples, in particular, digital TV signals, but also and most inportantly, how other RF signals and noise may interact with those digital signals.

The installer must be able to read and understand what all the information a good meter can display, however, no meter, no matter how well-featured or expensive, can tell an installer what they must do to solve complex reception issues.

This only comes from training, both theoretical and practical to gain the necessary knowledge, combined with experience.... lots of it, practical experience in the field, dealing will every type of reception scenario imaginable.

Often you need to think outside the square to find solutions.

[alanh]

MTV,
You need theory as well!
This is why digital ready endorsed installers have to pass an exam and have 12 months experience!

AlanH

[mtv]

alanh, on Mar 17 2011, 02:58 PM, said:

MTV,
You need theory as well!
This is why digital ready endorsed installers have to pass an exam and have 12 months experience!

AlanH

Of course you do, theory is the basis....... which is why I said in my post:

mtv, on Mar 17 2011, 01:47 PM, said:

This only comes from training, both theoretical and practical.............

[jrp001]

joshl, on Mar 17 2011, 11:19 AM, said:

Simtech is a reasonably new company but the blokes involved have been working in this field for years working previously for an audio visual retailer in traralgon.

Yes that company also done repairs on the side.

joshl, on Mar 17 2011, 11:19 AM, said:

I personally use gippsland antenna's for a few of my jobs i need then for and have had no issues.

Lucky traralgon isn't a difficult spot for antenna installer's (EG...no SFN's)

[jrp001]

alanh, on Mar 17 2011, 01:58 PM, said:

MTV,
You need theory as well!
This is why digital ready endorsed installers have to pass an exam and have 12 months experience!

AlanH

                                                                                                                                                                       alanh some of the people i know of with these endorsed installer badge's, i just thought they were giving them away in weeties packets.

Don't use theory with endorsed installer's, there is no real technical theory needed to get it or not what i call technical theory.(I think there should be)

It's about insurance.

you know what you can do with that endorsed installer badge.

Edited by jrp001, 17 March 2011 - 06:24 PM.

[mtv]

alanh, on Nov 27 2010, 09:50 PM, said:

MTV,
You have no idea when I left that job, you are just like DrP make assumptions...........

AlanH

Actually, according to this document: http://acma.gov.au/w.....ey towers.pdf

The appropriate section reads as follows:

"2 ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Mr Alan Hughes (B. Arts (Training & Development), Television Operators Cert of Proficiency, Dip. Electronics and Communications, MBKSTS) worked in the ABC for 25 years training internal staff in radio and television. The areas covered included studio maintenance, operations and end to end quality assessment of signals.

He also has continuing interest in both radio and television since departing from the ABC 12 years ago."


So calculating the dates mentioned within, from the date of the document, places you leaving that job around 1993/1994.

Long before the introduction of DVB-T in Australia, meaning your entire experience was with analogue-only and that it's been some 17-18 years since you worked in the broadcast industry.

If there is anything in that document relating to your background that is an assumption and not fact, which you believe to be incorrect, then please feel free to correct it.

[M'bozo]

jrp001, on Mar 17 2011, 07:08 PM, said:

there is no real technical theory needed

Speaking from my own very small sphere of operation, that is probably correct.

90% of installs work, regardless of how they are done, owing to the robustness of the transmission method.

The other 10% are where the meter readers come in to sort the difficult ones out  

jrp001, on Mar 17 2011, 07:08 PM, said:

you know what you can do with that endorsed installer badge.

Wear it.