Get The Best Reception, Illawarra
Posted 27 April 2009 - 03:59 PM
Posted 27 April 2009 - 05:18 PM
Do you know how to operate one and have a full understanding of all the information that it provides and what to do with the information?
If not, you'll be wasting your money, which would be better-spent having a pro installer do it for you.
Posted 01 June 2009 - 10:50 AM
I am located in Albion Park Rail and want to try to receive some channels I believe are broadcast from sydney.
I know it is possible as a friend who lives a few Km's away manages to do it.
Their antenna is pointed northward and seems to be a combined UHF/VHF.
The channels as reported by her tuner are
40 - NITV
41 - D44 News
44 - D44 Guide
45 - D44 News/Traffic info
46 - D44 Australian Christian Channel
47 - D44 Teachers
48 - D44 Teachers
49 - D44 Expo
55 - My Talk
I currently have a H5 antenna pointed towards Knights Hill and receive all the local channels with no problems and also some from Brokers Nose transmitter which also work well with the exception of 10 Capitol channels which are borderline. (most of these I deleted from the tuner as they just duplicate the Knights Hill ones)
I have a spare H5 (I think) antenna which I want to try to point northward to get the above listed channels
(as I understand, the H5 will be good for ch37 - ch69 so the channels I want fall in that range)
Can I use both these antennas simultaneously? - If I can, what kind of multiplexer(?) thingy do I need to do that?
Does anyone know where these channels are transmitted from so I can find in google earth to estimate the direction I need to aim in?
If the spare H5 I have is not the right antenna to attempt this with what would the more knowledgeable people use?
Thanks for any help,
Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:24 PM
Those 40 series numbers you noted are from CH35 in Sydney (D44 Sydney datacasting service). They are transmitted at a lower power than SBS Sydney on CH34.
Many people down where you are seem to want OneHD for it's sports content, not so much the D44 service.
Receiving UHF (high frequency) transmissions is more of a challenge over longer distances. I'm surprised your friend receives those signals (reliably?) near Albion Park.
The type of antenna you would need would be a high gain Band IV UHF unit, if it really is the CH35 Sydney station that you want. Note that CH36 is the start of Band V, so CH35 is right at the top of Band IV.
And probably some filtering and amplification.
One problem that you will have is that there are strong local transmissions from Knights Hill (Jamberoo area) on CH36, 37 and 38. And you will be trying to receive a very weak CH35 from much further away. Again, I'm surprised your friend receives them.
Edit: CH35 is from the main Sydney transmitters at Gore Hill/Artarmon/Willoughby.
Combining two antennas that cover the same band, where there are both strong local and weak distant transmissions, is not easy. Both antennas will pick up the local transmissions. If you try and boost the CH35 Sydney, you can't really help but also boost the local CH36-38.
Edited by charlesc, 01 June 2009 - 12:31 PM.
Posted 01 June 2009 - 03:03 PM
Thanks for your quick reply.
Firstly, I'm not 100% sure on the reliability of my friends reception but she didn't mention that it was problematic - incidently, she also recieves an extra analogue channel called "tvs!" as well.
I also know of one other place here in the Illawarra that gets those channels and that is on the waterfront at Port Kembla Harbour.
Please forgive me for my ignorance but is the band IV antenna you speak of the same as the H4+ that is listed at http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=78436
I might get hold of one of those and experiment with two individual antennas for a bit - just to see what I can pick up.
How do the channel numbers reported by my friends tuner (the 40 series numbers) relate to actual channels? - ie, you mention that they are actually channel 35 - Is there some kind of listing that will help me understand the numbering?
Do the numbers reported by her tuner relate to the channel numbers on my tuner? - for example, If I manually tune to CH44 on my STB, will it be the same as her CH44 on her STB?
Thanks again for your help Charles, It's much appreciated.
Posted 01 June 2009 - 05:41 PM
Being on the waterfront may help the distance reception because of the lack of hills over water! And it tends to travel longer distances. Also, the signal may be sneaking around the side of the escarpment a bit better. UHF (the higher frequerncies) rely more on line-of-sight than do the lower frequencies.
The H4+ link talks of two different style antennas, one for more direct reception, the other for diffuse reception (the phased array). They are different types of antenna, and vary in their abilities with different reception paths and characteristics.
A pro installer would probably be trying both in your sitaution as part of a site test survey.
Re the channel numbers. There are well defined (australian) channel numbers vs. frequencies. These are the CH34 SBS, CH36, 37, 38 from Knights Hill etc.
Then there are the logical channel numbers. There is a good thread on this forum on this, I'll try and find the link.
TEN have the '1' series numbers, ABC the '2' series etc.
Edit: LCN post
Edited by charlesc, 01 June 2009 - 05:58 PM.
Posted 01 June 2009 - 05:50 PM
You are mixed up between actual radio frequency channels and Logical Channel Numbers.
Actual channel numbers are viewable when you scan for signals and control the antenna type and size.
Logical Channel Number is transmitted by the transmitters. A good example is the ABC.
At Gore Hill in Sydney they transmit their digital signal on channel 12. In the Illawarra they use channel 51 and in Wollongong they use channel 52. In all cases they transmit LCNs of 2, 20, 21, 22, 23.
Other examples SBS use an LCN starting with 3
Southern Cross use an LCN starting with 5
Prime use an LCN starting with 6
WIN use an LCN starting with 8.
Miscellaneous (datacast trial) use an LCN starting with 4.
For Sydney go to the transmitter list link in Get the Best Reception, Sydney
If you really want to get the datacast trial then use an H4 antenna, go to the bottom of the page for blocked path reception.
Posted 02 June 2009 - 09:36 AM
Im starting to get my head around the channel numbering - Thanks for the link.
Well I'm off to find a high gain H4 antenna to do me some fiddling
Any idea of the gain I should aim for?- I mean I know higher will probably be better but I dont want to spend $200 on the uber gain model when 12Db would do
Edited by vv4yn0, 02 June 2009 - 09:38 AM.
Posted 02 June 2009 - 11:56 AM
The high gain Yagi style multi-element antenna is one approach. The phased array 'panel' style antenna is another. They are both quite different, and have different applications.
There are many areas down there where even getting the main Sydney VHF stations is quite tricky, at least if you are going for solid, reliable reception all the time. At 80+ kms, you're in a fringe area. That's one reason you have local translator/repeater transmitters down there to serve the area better.
In your situation though, you seem to be going for a UHF transmitter (UHF doesn't travel as well as VHF over long distances), and you are trying for a lower power transmitter (Sydney D44 CH35 has less output than say Sydney SBS on CH34).
Most of the antennas you should probably be looking at would be towards the expensive end of the maufacturer's range. You may even need more than one, coupled together (stacked). And I wouldn't think that any of these antennas would be found in the local DSE or Jaycar stores. You'd want to be using ones that are optimised for their function.
I'm not sure how best to advise you, without risking you going out to buy an antenna that may not work very well.
Posted 03 June 2009 - 03:22 PM
I'm going to be down in the G'ong this long weekend.
Where are you located?
Posted 03 June 2009 - 05:25 PM
I'm going to be down in the G'ong this long weekend.
Where are you located?
I think I should be up to 5 posts now - or at least in a little while when the site updates.
I am located at Albion Park Rail, just a couple trio of left hand turns from the highway.
Posted 03 June 2009 - 05:54 PM
Posted 03 June 2009 - 06:27 PM
Trying to achieve what you want without first having signals tested could prove expensive, with little or no result.
I'd highly recommend having Charles perform a site test for you, as trying to mix D44 channels from Sydney with the local Illawarra channels can be very complex and may require some degree of filtration.
Personally, I think D44 is a waste of bandwidth and I never watch it, even with perfect reception.
Posted 07 June 2009 - 07:27 PM
Charles came on the weekend and we done a site survey - on the temporary mast we could get a relatively good signal for both the UHF and VHF services. When we moved the antennas onto the existing mast I have the signal dropped significantly. There was only about 3M between the locations but it was enough to lose the "lock" regularly.
The cooler afternoon air contributed to some pretty significant fade on the signal and we eventually ran out of time.
Both the UHF and VHF we managed to tune on my TV while the antennas were on the temp mast. It is definantly "do-able" but the cost and difficulty of filtering and combining the UHF signals (local and DX) and the fact that we will have local transmission of ONE HD within 6 months makes me waver as to whether it is worth all the work.
It is though, still a "work in progress"
Thanks to all who have contributed and especially Charls for his time on Saturday.
Posted 07 June 2009 - 09:20 PM
As you saw, antenna mounting location can be critical.
A lot of people doubt that it can be that critical, but it can be in many instances and as I've always said, it can be the difference between reliable digital reception and no reception.
Without an accurate digital meter/spectrum analyser, that 'sweet-spot' can be impossible to find.
Having the right test equipment is also only half the job.... it needs to be in the hands of knowledgable and experienced techs, so the information can be correctly interpreted and solutions determined. (or advice to the customer that it may not be worth spending money on a fringe-antenna installation).
Posted 10 June 2009 - 02:26 PM
Posted 10 June 2009 - 03:09 PM
Only a site-test to measure available signals will determine if it's possible and the likely success and what will be required.
You should have no problems receiving all Illawarra channels.
Network TEN ONE HD should be available from Illawarra in July.
Posted 04 July 2009 - 10:36 AM
Not going to bore you all with my TV reception, but its crap. Hence I watch Austar. Sure would like to get free to air. Im located in Bomaderry. House is in a gully. Mainly ghosting. All channels are unwatchable..even when I switch to digital the ABC is all blocks and just get weak signal.
So, is it possible for the forum to suggest an installer? ..please.
I have no idea on aerials etc. Next door neighbor reception is just as bad.
Have two Sony Bravia TVs which are not real old with a real old outside TV aerial. Do know that the cable in the roof is new because it was installed when my extension was done. Still could not get a picture.
Thanx for your time.
Posted 04 July 2009 - 11:19 AM
You are in the strong signal area for the Nowra North transmitted from Cambewarra Lookout.
Vwb and it will tell you which antenna you require. The cable required is Quad shielded RG6 using F connectors on the ends.
Use your yellow pages and ask for an installer who has a digital field strength meter to measure signal errors. You should specify the above.
Posted 04 July 2009 - 12:52 PM
Thanx for the quick reply. One question..whats Vwb? Will get into the pages and have a gander.
Posted 09 July 2009 - 12:32 AM
I live in Mt Kembla and have trouble getting digital reception.
I've been here 7 years and when we moved in I replaced the antenna, coax and amplifier to improve the reception. It worked a treat.
A few years ago I got a STB and all was well, but now it's slowly deteriorated to the point I cannot get reception on the STB's I have.
I again replaced the coax for RG6 quad shield this time, bought a phased array antenna from Jaycar and it still isn't any good.
I recently bought a cheap LCD tv with a built in STB and this works OK? Why? It even worked with the new antenna and no amp, yet my STB says "no signal" even with the amp.
The antenna is pointing at some trees a few metres away. I've tried moving it and using a short run of cable (with the old antenna). Nothing I do works?
My next resort was to get a new amp? Is this a wise move?
Could my old STB wear out?
Posted 09 July 2009 - 12:57 AM
I have had a number of STBs fail for various reasons. So it is quite possible, particularly if the ventillation holes are covered, because the electronics can get quite hot.
If the new LCD digital TV is working ok, then don't buy an amplifier. I would buy an HD STB so you can see all programs even on an old TV.
The other possibility is the cable between the wall and the receiver. Also connections between cables.
Posted 09 July 2009 - 10:33 AM
I've replaced all the coax to the STB.
I had one new screw on F connector for the aerial, stripped cable to join the mast head amp and also out of the power supply, and had a used male plug into the box.
I will buy a new HD STB. I've wanted to, but couldn't justify it when I had 2 SD STB's.
It's a good time anyway as ONE HD has just arrived.
Do you have any suggestions for a good or better brand HD STB? or even better, which ones to steer clear of?