788 replies to this topic

[alanh]

Namz,
Remove any booster first and check out if the new TV works.
If not read the first post in this forum, as well as checking the cabling and antenna for signs of weathering.
Since you are in a simlarl location on the Western side of Port Phillip by follow the advice in the previous post.

AlanH

[collingwood]

alanh,

I can't find the place to see what my signal strength is or where the nearest place is. The house is in Seaford (3198) near Frankston, would love to hear from others who might be around the area who have used indoor antenna's and if so what they recommend.

Really getting someone in to wire up an antenna would be the last option, even though I know it would be the best option, it's my mum's place and she wouldn't want that to happen.

[mtv]

collingwood, on Jan 2 2011, 12:14 PM, said:

alanh,

I can't find the place to see what my signal strength is or where the nearest place is. The house is in Seaford (3198) near Frankston, would love to hear from others who might be around the area who have used indoor antenna's and if so what they recommend.

Really getting someone in to wire up an antenna would be the last option, even though I know it would be the best option, it's my mum's place and she wouldn't want that to happen.

collingwood,

I've replied to your other thread on this.

Seaford is not a good signal area for indoor antennas.

The bottom line is, if your mum wants reliable digital TV reception, a correctly-installed antenna ON the roof is what's required.

[LuxuryYacht]

Hi
I just recently purchased a WandTV USB digital TV stick.  The aerial it came with is not very good.

OK, so I bought it to go on my computer at work.  My workplace is in St Kilda Road, Melbourne, and my office is in the north-west corner of the building, with another tall building to my north.  I have no access to an external antenna.

I have installed the software and the device, and it is working well.  However, the only channels I can tune in are SBS ones.

I went to Dick Smith to get a new inside antenna, this time I managed to tune Channel 9 in (although I have since lost it since I moved the antenna) and SBS.  The Dick Smith aerial I purchased is the L4016 Indoor TV Antenna with Built-in Amplifier.

Can someone please give me some advice as to which direction I should point the antenna in, and how I should configure the ears and the UHF bit?

There were digital antennas available for an extra $10.  Should I have purchased one of them?

Please don't suggest I get an external antenna.  I know, but there is no access to one, and no prospect of access to one.

Thanks so much in advance for your help.

Regards



LY

Edited by LuxuryYacht, 06 January 2011 - 02:01 PM.

[mtv]

LuxuryYacht, on Jan 6 2011, 02:35 PM, said:

Hi
I just recently purchased a WantTV USB digital TV stick. The aerial it came with is not very good.

OK, so I bought it to go on my computer at work. My workplace is in St Kilda Road, Melbourne, and my office is in the north-west corner of the building, with another tall building to my north. I have no access to an external antenna.

I have installed the software and the device, and it is working well. However, the only channels I can tune in are SBS ones.

I went to Dick Smith to get a new inside antenna, this time I managed to tune Channel 9 in (although I have since lost it since I moved the antenna) and SBS. The Dick Smith aerial I purchased is the L4016 Indoor TV Antenna with Built-in Amplifier.

Can someone please give me some advice as to which direction I should point the antenna in, and how I should configure the ears and the UHF bit?

There were digital antennas available for an extra $10. Should I have purchased one of them?

Please don't suggest I get an external antenna. I know, but there is no access to one, and no prospect of access to one.

Thanks so much in advance for your help.

Regards



LY

The antennas typically supplied with USB tuners are only suitable for use in very strong signal areas and by design, UHF, which is why SBS is the best-performing channel for you.

The issue of course is being indoors with blocking terrain, which there isn't a great deal you can do about.

You may possibly be able to tune the UHF translator channels from the Como building in Sth Yarra.

A directional UHF antenna would be best for those signals, however, the antenna needs to be vertical, not horizontal as it would be for the main transmitters on Mt Dandenong.

Something like THIS  may be suitable, providing the UHF section can be turned on it's side (vertical) but once again, location and terrain may prevent reliable digital reception with any indoor antenna.

[LuxuryYacht]

mtv, on Jan 6 2011, 02:07 PM, said:

The antennas typically supplied with USB tuners are only suitable for use in very strong signal areas and by design, UHF, which is why SBS is the best-performing channel for you.

The issue of course is being indoors with blocking terrain, which there isn't a great deal you can do about.

You may possibly be able to tune the UHF translator channels from the Como building in Sth Yarra.

A directional UHF antenna would be best for those signals, however, the antenna needs to be vertical, not horizontal as it would be for the main transmitters on Mt Dandenong.

Something like THIS  may be suitable, providing the UHF section can be turned on it's side (vertical) but once again, location and terrain may prevent reliable digital reception with any indoor antenna.

Thanks for that.  Will something like this do anything the others can't? http://dicksmith.com...tive-tv-antenna

I have tried turning what I've got on its side and pointed at Como (albeit with a lot of buildings in the way), and it picked up a couple of extras - still no ABC.

[mtv]

LuxuryYacht, on Jan 6 2011, 03:54 PM, said:

Thanks for that. Will something like this do anything the others can't? http://dicksmith.com...tive-tv-antenna

I have tried turning what I've got on its side and pointed at Como (albeit with a lot of buildings in the way), and it picked up a couple of extras - still no ABC.

All you can do without instrumentation to measure the signals, is experiment with different antennas in different positions and configurations.

[LuxuryYacht]

mtv, on Jan 6 2011, 03:46 PM, said:

All you can do without instrumentation to measure the signals, is experiment with different antennas in different positions and configurations.

So I got this antenna: http://dicksmith.com...tive-tv-antenna

I need to get a longer cable so I can try it in different parts of the room.  I can now pick up all SBS digital channels, Channel 7s suite (although with the occasional digitisation), and Go! and Gem but no Nine.  I think I am pretty much pointed at Como.

Any further advice?

[alanh]

Luxury Yacht,
Go to the first post in this strand and click on the Indoor antenna link. Como is V5. transmission type.

AlanH

[ppriyan]

ppriyan, on Dec 24 2010, 10:37 AM, said:

Thank you Alan.
Merry Christmas to you.
I checked the prices for Digi Mach Antenna, seems to be expensive. One supplier quoted 104 and another one quoted 196 for the same antenna(01mm DC 21A). When I checked the prices for Poltec antennas they seem to be cheaper.Given that my neighbors antenna looks like poltec and is receiving good strength signal, would poltec lp35/45 work for me.

Thanks a lot Alanh.
I got a ATV 24 DIG antenna and installed it myself.
No I am receiving all digital / HD channels in good strength except for SBS.
SBS signal stength/quality is bit low and some time cracks.
Can you suggest how i can improve, could there be anything wrong in my installation?

[alanh]

ppriyan,
I have missed your last post
Firstly I would check all connections. This sounds as if there is a small gap usually within the plubs or the centre wire does not stick out far enough.

Quote

December 24, 2010
If this recommendation is not 100 % successful, you may need a masthead amplifier, however I would get an antenna installer to measure the digital field strength to optimise the antenna position first.

There is amplifier recommendations at the end of the H34 link

[Alex45]

Please let me stress that I am speaking about Digital, not Analogue reception.....

I live in the hilly part of Balwyn.

When you change channels on my Toshiba 32" Full HD TV, you momentarily see signal bars, like on a mobile phone.
All the other stations except Digital channel 44 show 5 out of 5 bars maximum signal.

Whilst I get a perfect picture on Channel 44 (C31), it only shows 2 signal bars out of 5.
yes, I have retuned several times. The picture is fine on 44, but do I assume at Digital Channel 44 transmits on a lower power than the other digital stations, as I am only getting 2 bars of signal (despite a perfect picture)???

I repeat, my specific question is:    Is it normal to get 5 bars of signal on every other station except Channel 44 (C31) where I only get 2 bars.
I am speaking of Digital only,   NOT analogue UHF ......just digital ONLY.

Thank you

Edited by Alex45, 30 January 2011 - 12:01 PM.

[alanh]

Alex,
Recommended digital antennas are in the H34 link in the first post. Quad shielded RG6 cable is recommended using F connectors for connectors.
If you are in a valley with hills between you and Mt Dandenong then you may need more specific information.

When you get to 5 posts you can message me your address and I can check the signal path from your actual address.

AlanH

[beeblebrox]

Alex45, on Jan 30 2011, 12:37 PM, said:

I repeat, my specific question is:    Is it normal to get 5 bars of signal on every other station except Channel 44 (C31) where I only get 2 bars.
I am speaking of Digital only,   NOT analogue UHF ......just digital ONLY.

Thank you

Yes the digital 31 (RF CH32)  is much lower power (10dbuV) so it's not surprising your tv displays lower bars.  because of the nature of the current transmission it is much more robust so will work at low and very very low signal levels.  So to answer your specific question yes it is quite normal.

[mtv]

Alex45,

In addition to what beeblebrox has said, given your digital reception is reliable, there is no need to change antennas.

[Alex45]

beeblebrox, on Jan 30 2011, 04:35 PM, said:

Yes the digital 31 (RF CH32)  is much lower power (10dbuV) so it's not surprising your tv displays lower bars.  because of the nature of the current transmission it is much more robust so will work at low and very very low signal levels.  So to answer your specific question yes it is quite normal.

Dear Beeblebrox, thank you very much for answering my question.
Kind regards

[Alex45]

mtv, on Jan 30 2011, 07:44 PM, said:

Alex45,

In addition to what beeblebrox has said, given your digital reception is reliable, there is no need to change antennas.

Thanks for your relevent answer.
In the meantime, my Toshiba IR failed again, and Toshiba gave me a voucher to give the retailer, and I exchanged it for a Sony
Bravia for the same price.

[KingOfKong]

Guys, I'm going loopy here...

I must be living on Mars... Because I see a MASSIVE problem, and it's like it doesn't even exist.

CH.7 Signal in Melbourne goes LIMP at the EXACT same time each night, ~6:30pm (can't remember).

It's like clockwork.

Before I noticed the timing... I thought it was my 42" plasma, then I noticed my 50" does it too.

The cabling & antenna at home always seemed OK, just trouble getting SBS in one room (due to splitting in cabling).

So I replaced all the coax in the house with quad-shield RG6, new antenna, AND a 4 port booster.

SAME problem. W-T-H?!

Went to a restaurant on Saturday night, ~10 min away. Their 42" plasma had the same trouble.

So I mentioned it to the others at the table.... "hmmm, yeah, that happens at our house, dunno when/what, but-yeah. Thought it was just us".

I've noticed it at friend's houses in the area too, but ya know what everyone does... Just changes the channel?!

Seriously, what's going on.

[mtv]

KingOfKong, on Feb 3 2011, 09:18 AM, said:

Guys, I'm going loopy here...

I must be living on Mars... Because I see a MASSIVE problem, and it's like it doesn't even exist.

CH.7 Signal in Melbourne goes LIMP at the EXACT same time each night, ~6:30pm (can't remember).

It's like clockwork.

Before I noticed the timing... I thought it was my 42" plasma, then I noticed my 50" does it too.

The cabling & antenna at home always seemed OK, just trouble getting SBS in one room (due to splitting in cabling).

So I replaced all the coax in the house with quad-shield RG6, new antenna, AND a 4 port booster.

SAME problem. W-T-H?!

Went to a restaurant on Saturday night, ~10 min away. Their 42" plasma had the same trouble.

So I mentioned it to the others at the table.... "hmmm, yeah, that happens at our house, dunno when/what, but-yeah. Thought it was just us".

I've noticed it at friend's houses in the area too, but ya know what everyone does... Just changes the channel?!

Seriously, what's going on.

No problems with 7 signals anywhere that I'm aware of.

Sounds like you have a local interference source.

An amplifier may also be amplifying the interference.

You haven't mentioned your location. (Melbourne's a big place)

[KingOfKong]

Thanks for the reply.

S.E. Melb Suburbs... Langwarrin, Karingal, Frankston.

For Langwarrin, we're sitting high, but surrounded by 1000 trees on all sides. The antenna/setup is all in the roof, beneath cement tiles.

What throws me, before digitial and flat-screens... We never had ANY trouble getting 2,SBS,7,9,10 crystal clear on the CRT or VHS units.

I'm in the process of building top-quality HTPC's, with internal Dual Tuners. I'm curious to see how fussy they are.

But-seriously, I'm going to have to time Channel 7, to the second. I'm not wearing a tinfoil-hat, I promise!

[alanh]

Kingofkong,
The first problem is that your antenna is under the tiles. As the moisture is absorbed into the tiles, so does the signal this also applies to the trees.

I suggest you read the first post in this strand. Do you have a band 3 & 4 antenna?

Your signal must be marginal and with digital it suddenly breaks up as the signal reduces.

AlanH

[KingOfKong]

Sorry I never replied, as I simply gave up. I'm not sure what antenna specs I bought. I spent all the money, and thought I was guaranteed quality... But I fell short on something/everything after that.

TV SIGNAL BOOSTER KINGRAY SA164F
ANTENNA SPLITTER 4 WAY F TYPE ANTSPL4FPP1
ATVUX34 UHF TV ANTENNA TO REPLACE HILLS TMX34
100MTR RG6 QUAD COAX CABLE

Academy TV Australia Pty Ltd
66 - 72 Charles St
Newcomb, Victoria 3219 Australia

So still many years later, I'm still skulking over all the wasted time & money, and I've just learned to live with horrible reception too.

That's at my parents house, but now it's my own house that I need to get sorted... So I'll try another way: Pro route, and maybe do the same at theirs.

I spent a plenty of time, money & effort on building a home theatre, the jewel in my hobby/interest crown. I'll die if the twin-tuners (Compro E900F) can't record a solid signal 24/7 on my HTPC. In the last 12mths, we average <5hrs a week of TV from the air... but I'd still like it to actually work 100%

The search for guaranteed components goes around in circles, and even trying to choose a pro varies wildly. Hell, even posts in this thread suggest anything from $190-330 or more?!

I need and appreciate quality... but it's for TV, ya know. Spending several hundred dollars feels like I'm getting my pants pulled down.

Any/all advice is greatly appreciated... sorry if I come-across tight. I assure you, I'm not. Value is what I live for.

[mtv]

HTPC tuners usually require an even higher quality signal than integrated/STB DTV tuners.

You mentioned you just replaced a UHF antenna.... all digital channels except SBS/C31 from Mt Dandenong are VHF Band 3.

As mentioned the antenna needs to be ON the roof, not in the ceiling...... that's the very first thing you must do.

The actual mounting location of the mast on the roof and the height of the antenna can be critical if you are in a difficult reception area.

You can only find that 'sweet-spot' with professional instrumentation, in the hands of a competent operator.

As you've discovered, along with countless others, digital TV/antenna installation with reliable reception can be difficult to achieve as a DIY project, without accurate instrumentation, knowledge & experience, resulting in false economy by wasting money experimenting, with still no satisfactory results and a lot of frustration.

I'm all for anyone having a go themselves, as many DIY installations work fine.... when signals are optimal (eg: line of sight to TX) but in difficult reception areas, there's a very fine line between reliable reception, intermittent reception and no reception.

[KingOfKong]

mtv, on Mar 7 2011, 11:57 PM, said:

HTPC tuners usually require an even higher quality signal than integrated/STB DTV tuners.

I've always read/experienced this with USB tuners, which was the reason I chose PCIe. With my crappy reception at my parents, it was actually less fussy than my LG 50" plasma's internal tuner, and the EyeTV Twin Diversity. It would hold signal a lot longer, before dropping. And when it dropped, it dropped for 1-2seconds, instead of the 5+ seconds I was used to.

Quote

You mentioned you just replaced a UHF antenna.... all digital channels except SBS/C31 from Mt Dandenong are VHF Band 3.

I copy/pasted my eBay invoice, if that's the part you're referring to? The antenna brand is sold as a replacement for Hills. The seller claimed Hills were getting overpriced, so he sourced same-quality for cheaper. I'd have zero idea if true or not.

Quote

As mentioned the antenna needs to be ON the roof, not in the ceiling...... that's the very first thing you must do.

Not a problem at all. Known to be ugly, but why spend all the money/effort on a setup, to hamstring yourself, right
After going through the previous troubles, I'll do whatever's required.

Quote

The actual mounting location of the mast on the roof and the height of the antenna can be critical if you are in a difficult reception area.

Ah, OK. I thought of the under-gutter (fascia?) mount, but that's probably even uglier really.

Quote

You can only find that 'sweet-spot' with professional instrumentation, in the hands of a competent operator.

2 doors up had an antenna pro-installed, and it's in the centre of the house, on the peak of the roof-tiles. Can't quite see how it's mounted (through the tiles etc?). I'm in Lyndhurst Victoria, which has a great direct-line to MtDandenong... or does it. Like all over the country, there are the usual rises & valleys, so nothing's direct really. I would think I'm in a very good position, for sure.

Quote

As you've discovered, along with countless others, digital TV/antenna installation with reliable reception can be difficult to achieve as a DIY project, without accurate instrumentation, knowledge & experience, resulting in false economy by wasting money experimenting, with still no satisfactory results and a lot of frustration.

For $2, I grabbed a VERY dated looking article, from Jaycar, on how to do it all. But it seemed kinda pointless in the end. It really wasn't offering much-more than a Wikipedia article.

Quote

I'm all for anyone having a go themselves, as many DIY installations work fine.... when signals are optimal (eg: line of sight to TX) but in difficult reception areas, there's a very fine line between reliable reception, intermittent reception and no reception.

Appreciate the honesty. Considering my location, and how "handy" I am... I'll feel stupid for spending ~$300 for it. Particularly since I'm more than happy to do all the dirty work (internal cabling etc.) Sure, I'm not as quick as a pro... but my hobby time is worth $0/hr, so long as I'm learning. I figure the money saved on a pro, I could spend on even over-speccing, and still save money. Am I wrong? What's the labour component of a simple setup?

In a perfect world, I'd knock on the door of my neighbour, ask to see what setup they have etc. But I don't know them, let-alone enough to ask/enter their home... and I'm extremely shy at the best of times

Edited by KingOfKong, 08 March 2011 - 09:56 AM.

[mtv]

Thanks for the detailed response, however, you didn't reply in relation to which VHF antenna you are using (only the UHF).

If you can't see the transmission towers from your antenna, it's not a direct line and anything in the signal path can affect reception, even reflected signals not directly in the signal path.

Be careful when looking at what antennas neighbours use, as many may have been installed prior to digital and were primarily designed for analogue channels.

Even those which may have been installed after the intoduction of digital, doesn't necessarily mean they are the most suitable antenna for that particular location.

Also, what workd best for a neighbour, doesn't necessarily mean the same setup will work best for you..... each job is individual, but having said that, sometimes seeing what others around you are using, can provide a general indication.

As for doing some of the work yourself, eg: cabling, that's fine, and can certainly save you $ with labour and materials cost. You just need to ensure you keep the cabling separated as far away as possible from power cabling in the ceiling and walls and if it must cross power cabling, keep the separation distance as great as possible and preferably at right angles.

The coax should be well-shielded.... the industry standard is RG6 Quadshield, terminated with crimped/compression F connectors.

The same with any splitters and outlet plates, etc.... F connectors. Most people still prefer PAL type outlets, but you can use F rear - PAL front mechanisms, so they are still fully-shielded.

As you don't know where the best antenna mounting position on the roof may be, just leave sufficient coax in a centrally, easily-accessed location in the ceiling that the installer can join the antenna cable to.

Very rarely would I use a fascia mount, as often the roof itself may still interfere to some degree and without additional suppot (eg: stay bars) fasia mounts wobble around, together with the antenna and eventually the fascia board splits. Most new homes also use a sheetmetal fascia, so you can't bolt directly to it without a solid bracket/reinforcement behind the mount.

Most franchise installers use fascia mounts as they are cheaper, faster and easier to install compared to a mast, base plate & stay bars, or a ridge-mount and guy wires.

The low mounting position of a fascia bracket may also place an antenna in a location when the signal bath is blocked. eg: trees, neighbouring houses, etc.... it all depends on your particular location and the signal path.

If a fascia mount provides reliable reception, then providing it has adequate support, there's no reason why you couldn't use one.

Hope all this helps.