21 replies to this topic

[archiemoses]

Hi all,

First I must confess that I am not overly tech savvy. I have been doing a lot of research lately and I think I am completely confused between what NAS,  HTPC and Network Media Players have to offer.   If you can explain the key differences in laymen terms that would be great!

As I understand it now;
NAS - connects to your router, can share printers, data, movies and music to any computer/ smart tv / BR player with ethernet/wireless connection via the router.

HTPC - Stores all media on a computer which is connected to the smart tv / to share media with like media centre.

I want to set up a home network and want to access media through phone, computers and tv, but love how with HTPC's you can have like media centre installed and display all your movies in cool formats.

Is there a NAS that can do this?

Cheers,
Angelo

[com5984]

I have a qnap nas that does all of the above and more. There are cheaper alternatives around but like the functions of the qnap.

[pgdownload]

Hi Arch,

There are a lot of permutations when setting up a home media solution. I'll kick off with a few thoughts and you can see what sort of approach appeals.

1) A HTPC is a PC which usually connects straight into a TV for playing. It can also act as a central server for storing files to send out to other devices. You can google some great HTPC DIY guides but FWIW if you're not very techy a HTPC is a reasonable undertaking. If you want to build one as a hobby it can be a fun challenge but its not for everyone. Also you need to have a big PC on 24/7 in your living room generally.

2) You're correct on what a NAS does. Essentially its just a dedicated harddrive that is on 24/7 and uses about 10W an hour and is silent. They send data around your home. You can get a cheap 1 drive NAS but as a startup I'd suggest getting a 2 drive (bay) NAS and configure it to mirror the hard drives. That means if one of your hard drives fails there's a second duplicate copy of all your data.

3) Good NAS options might be a QNAP like this one or a SYNOLOGY. See this thread. A NAS is also good for being a backup of data on other devices. Modern NAS also have a lot of additional server features like being an iTunes server etc. that you can investigate.

4) Instead of a HTPC there are plenty of Media Players that cost $100-$300 and have great interfaces. Popular ones include WDLive, Popcorn Hour, and the AppleTV. If you like a very nice customisable display then a big free favourite is XMBC

5) Note if you want to add wireless to the mix then you usually add a wireless router into your wired network. I'd also recommend you stick with wired where possible (say between your NAS and Media Player) as its a more reliable connection.

5) Personally, my solution involves a QNAP NAS. A $100 AppleTV with ATV Black installed on it and running XMBC.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[Htpc-online]

In laymans terms A nas is basically a networked box with hard drives in it. You store all your data on it and you can share it around the home to computers , htpcs, media players. It has a CPU ram and an operating system. But you can't decode files or connect it direct to a tv and start watching its not powerful enough. It's purpose is being a data storage device that is low power, on 24/7 so u can access your data.

Media players basically do what they say, they play your media. You connect it to your tv, if it has an inbuilt hard drive you copy your photos, tv shows, movies to that and you can browse them on your tv. Most have a 2tb hard drive limit so depending on the size of your collection that may be ok for u. You can also access your network from media players. So u store your data on pcs, nas, htpcs and stream it to the media player which outputs it to the tv. Popcorn hours and dunes are the only brands I'd bother looking at they offer meta data and cover arts but it doesn't compare to a htpc.

Htpc is basically a computer connected directly to your tv. It does it all. Stores all your data, plays all your files, streams to other devices, if u put a burner in it burns blu rays. If u have a web can and u use Skype u Skype on the tv which is cool. The meta data and cover arts can't be beaten with either media browser or media portal. Once u see one in action u will be blown away. I know after all my friends saw mine they wanted one. You can surf the web on the big screen.

I believe all have a good purpose in the home. Htpc for main movie area, media players for bedroom tvs or 2nd lounge room tv. And nas for storage. I have been burned with media players in the past, when new codecs and formats come out like Mkv files and mp4 alot of the old media players became paperweights because the hardware inside was too old and couldn't decode them. Htpcs because of the nature of them will always play the latest file types u just download an update and your away.

[ajm]

Peter, sorry for the slight tangent here, but which version of the ATV are you using?  

I have an ATV2 in a box somewhere, I've been meaning to dig it out and play around with it some more.  Did you mention at one stage that you'd installed a graphics accelerator? I've been thinking about doing that but, to be honest, I'm not really sure if it's worth the fuss and expense.  I already have 2 media players in the house.  Also, with Firecore installed, can you still access the iTunes store for the rare occassions you want to download something expensive?

[archiemoses]

Awesome guys a lot to take in! I wanted to avoid multiple devices. Could you stream your data from NAS to a media player and display (for example) all movies with cover art as if it were stored in the media player?

I want to avoid doubling up data on multiple devices. Is it just a USB connection to NAS drive to transfer data?

[richmaco]

Yes, Archie, however, that is a laborious task to undertake

(In respect to getting coverart, etc).

A NAS is just a networked drive, it's no different to using a media player with a built in hard drive.

Just be aware that complexity with a NAS occurs when you decide the configuration of the drives - you probably want "JBOD" which is Just a Bunch of drives.

Most NAS systems are designed for backup in mind so they tend to default to using a system that combines drives to give multiple backups of a file on them (RAID).

Edited by richmaco, 08 August 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[ajm]

If you're organised from the start and chose the right devices then cover art is not an overly difficult thing to do.  I'd suggest using the googles to find some up-to-date info, maybe find one of the media player forums with some tutorials.

Personally I never bothered with setting it up.  Way too lazy .

[richmaco]

Oh, definitely.  I used to ritualistically remove mp3 tags from all my mp3s because I was sick of seeing fluctuation in how they were tagged by ripping programs.

.. then I got an ipod.  Ho ho, what a nightmare.

[ajm]

Also, if you're going to use a NAS i would highly recommend having some kind of backup.  Even if it is an external HDD (or 2) plugged into your PC with a copy of the essential files on your NAS.

Just in case.

[Htpc-online]

I would never recommend an apple tv because your limited to 720p and I'm pretty sure they don't do dts hd/bluray audio.

It all comes down to how your movies are formatted. Blu ray folder structure, iso, Mkv 30 -45gig per file. Is your collection dvdrips 700mb divx for example. A lot to think about

[Htpc-online]

archiemoses, on 08 August 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

Awesome guys a lot to take in! I wanted to avoid multiple devices. Could you stream your data from NAS to a media player and display (for example) all movies with cover art as if it were stored in the media player?

I want to avoid doubling up data on multiple devices. Is it just a USB connection to NAS drive to transfer data?

Pretty sure popcorn hours let u store all meta data on nas for cover art.

[K1LL3M]

What they said except that JBOD thing. RAID it. You don't want to spend hours or days restoring from a back up because a drive failed for the sake of some extra space. Plan it better to begin with.

A media player and nas is by far the best & easiest option in my opinion. Which is is just like an a-hole, everybody has one and you'll make your own(my opinion that is).

The new popcorn media players and I am sure some others have the ability to build a jukebox themselves with an internet connection, which is what you are talking about when you mention coverart displays. Google NMJv2 as an example of the popcorn version. They do often have an ability to customize these which comes with additional levels of difficulty.

The NAS, I would solidly recommend getting something that can expand with you when you realise that you need bigger, and you will.

Synology have units that let you start small and grow, the DS712 is a 2 drive unit that you can add a 5 drive expansion unit too when you need too and a DS1512 which is a 5 drive unit that you can add 2 extra 5 drive units too. This ability is what brought me over to Synology . I'd actually suggested it to netgear before realising anybody else did it and as far as I'm aware its still only offered by synology for home markets. The other feature of Synology's that I discovered was excellent was their DSM interface for the nas that is much more user friendly than anything else I have experienced.

Other than that think about how often you get new content to work out how quickly it's going to grow, what you really want it to do and what you are prepared to spend to get it.

[com5984]

ajm, on 08 August 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Peter, sorry for the slight tangent here, but which version of the ATV are you using?  

I have an ATV2 in a box somewhere, I've been meaning to dig it out and play around with it some more.  Did you mention at one stage that you'd installed a graphics accelerator? I've been thinking about doing that but, to be honest, I'm not really sure if it's worth the fuss and expense.  I already have 2 media players in the house.  Also, with Firecore installed, can you still access the iTunes store for the rare occassions you want to download something expensive?

ajm that was for the atv1, you sacrificed the wifi card to put a broadcomm graphics accelaerator in. The atv2 jb from firecore just give you more flexibility with xbmc, plex etc. I use this on my atv2 and itunes works exactly the same as a standard atv.

[pgdownload]

ajm, on 08 August 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Peter, sorry for the slight tangent here, but which version of the ATV are you using?  

I have an ATV2 in a box somewhere, I've been meaning to dig it out and play around with it some more.  Did you mention at one stage that you'd installed a graphics accelerator? I've been thinking about doing that but, to be honest, I'm not really sure if it's worth the fuss and expense.  I already have 2 media players in the house.  Also, with Firecore installed, can you still access the iTunes store for the rare occassions you want to download something expensive?

Just to be sure, there's the ATV, the ATV2 (black) and just recently a new ATV3. I have the ATV2. It doesn't do above 720p but I've never bothered downloading anything above that anyway - so I never replaced the wireless chip with the graphics accelerator option. The ATV3 has 1080 capability built in. I don't use the apple functionality however my understanding is that Firecore doesn;t replace anything, it just adds menu options - store accessible as mentioned here.

FWIW installation and setup on the ATV is pretty painless (more effort configuring up XMBC the way you might like). Its amazing how small the thing is.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[pgdownload]

archiemoses, on 08 August 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

Is it just a USB connection to NAS drive to transfer data?

Its one way of offloading, loading data. In general though after you're set up its simpler to just move things around via your home network.

1) Note once you're dealing with video files (esp HD) you need wired to transfer stuff (wireless is ok for watching, but wired for actual copying). A 720p HD movie is about 3-4Gb. A 50 minute SD episode is about 350Mb.

2) You should probably not try solve everything at once. A $80 external USB drive is a neat place to store files and transfer between PC and media player etc. So you could investigate getting a good cheap media player like some of the above I listed. A media player is handy as it can be replaced in a few years at little cost or setup needed when better devices come along.

3) After you get a media player sorted you could investigate a NAS that might serve as a data store.

4) If you're looking for an really polished all in one solution with all the nice interface then you might consider getting a Mini Mac. Only draw back is cost at $650 or so. You could install Plex on it to handle all the meta covers etc.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[ajm]

pgdownload, on 08 August 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Just to be sure, there's the ATV, the ATV2 (black) and just recently a new ATV3. I have the ATV2. It doesn't do above 720p but I've never bothered downloading anything above that anyway - so I never replaced the wireless chip with the graphics accelerator option. The ATV3 has 1080 capability built in. I don't use the apple functionality however my understanding is that Firecore doesn;t replace anything, it just adds menu options - store accessible as mentioned here.

FWIW installation and setup on the ATV is pretty painless (more effort configuring up XMBC the way you might like). Its amazing how small the thing is.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Ok, that makes sense. The ATV3 can't be hacked to install Firecore as yet so for now it's the ATV2 & 720p if you want to run XMBC and the other software.

[archiemoses]

Thanks Peter, Rob and everyone else. I guess there isn't one single device that will do everything I want?

Ideally, I was thinking NAS as SOHO network so I could store all media, back up media and allow data sharing (i.e. store excel files that I can work on from different computers) and connect to a network printer.

I was hoping that the smart TV and smart BR player could connect to the router and detect the NAS. Then stream media directly from the NAS to the TV/BR player.

I have seen screenshot of awesome movie catalogs using HTPC and this is where the NAS falls down yeh? I don't have to have anything fancy, but it would be nice to flick through movies with nice cover art, select one and press play!

[audiohobbs]

What everyone else said, but not JBOD! If you go RAID, you can start "small", have a two drive unit and make it a mirror set. Buy a third drive of the same type and you can periodically swap a drive in and out to have an off-site backup.

A simpler alternative, if a little less efficient, is to have a bunch of external USB drives of sufficient size to have identical copies of your media on each one. One (or more) could connect to your media player, one to a PVR (if you have one) and one to your PC, of course. In addition you can have one copy off-site again. It is less efficient and means that if you change one you need to change them all. RAID helps you minimise that work.

The larger RAID units are handy to store large quantities of media on them. They rely on binding between two (not recommended!) and five disks into one larger unit, with some redundancy to guard against drive failure and a lot more write / read speed. It is do-able; I am paranoid, however, and prefer to have  mirror sets - 100% copied data on my RAID systems (I now have two, one of which is cycled with a third drive, the other contains less important files).

Anyway, I am sure you have plenty of food for thought by now :-)

[pgdownload]

Don't get too tied up with a all in one solution. A NAS, a media player and a TV is a good setup. That handles the video setup. Then you can look to hooking in a music option.

As for the all in one solution, did you check out the mini mac?

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[Htpc-online]

Just had a look at the atv3 specs yes it does 1080p but your still limited to 5.1 sound, no hd audio . It also doesnt support alot of the standard formats. The answer is quite simple if u want an all in one solution look no further than a htpc. If you can turn a pc on, copy and paste files to different folders that's all you need to know. Mediaportal handles the rest and automatically adds new movies and cover arts.

[com5984]

pgdownload, on 08 August 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

Don't get too tied up with a all in one solution. A NAS, a media player and a TV is a good setup. That handles the video setup. Then you can look to hooking in a music option.

As for the all in one solution, did you check out the mini mac?

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Just waiting for the new model to come out