69 replies to this topic

[Spidey1]

JapanDave, on 20 January 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

And where did you have this little play? I have listened to the best of the best and I find it hard to believe that anthem d2v & Mach IV / Bryston SP3 are superior musically or for movies. Especially the EQ systems involved are completely different.

Have you heard the SP3?

[lucmor444]

Spidey1, on 20 January 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

Hi guys I do not want to offend anyone on here, I was just sharing my opinion / experience testing these units. Rs20i in great , probably the best for movies but for music audiophile I think there are other processors  that excel further to another level, just my opinion.

No worries, not offended - most posts are opinions and being willing to share them helps others.

Edited by lucmor444, 21 January 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[Ilian]

I haven't heard Datasat yet but what I like is the upgradability. This is missing in CRM4. Basically ADA equipment is very high quality but the lack of support and upgradability is really annoying. As concern the SQ performance, couldn't be happier.

[jacked]

Hello all,

Does anyone know if the Datasat AP20 is available to buy, new or used, from anywhere ?

It is the commercial version of the RS20i but it is very difficult to find for use in the home.

If anyone can point me in the right direction or knows anybody selling the AP20 and will ship to the UK please let me know.

Thanks very much.

Dave

[BladeRnR]

Ilian, on 22 January 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

I haven't heard Datasat yet but what I like is the upgradability. This is missing in CRM4. Basically ADA equipment is very high quality but the lack of support and upgradability is really annoying. As concern the SQ performance, couldn't be happier.

The Datasat is fully upgradable as it's architecture is based on a PC-like card/slot arrangement. This is how they recently added the Dolby TrueHD I believe (Free).

Having heard and seen one in action care of a forum member I can say it is highly desirable and I don't know anything that comes close for the price vs capabilities/customisation/tweakability. It is also the best sounding processor I have heard to date and that was without it's room correction engaged.

Blade

[cwt]

jacked, on 23 January 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

If anyone can point me in the right direction or knows anybody selling the AP20 and will ship to the UK please let me know.

Quick google showed datasat sell to the industry and consumer Dave ; uk dealers -

http://www.datasatdi... Kingdom&Type=0

[jacked]

cwt, on 23 January 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

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Quick google showed datasat sell to the industry and consumer Dave ; uk dealers -

http://www.datasatdi... Kingdom&Type=0

Thanks for the link but Datasat only want to sell the RS20i to the home market, they seem to have clamped down and are restricting the AP20 for the commercial sector.

It is the AP20 I am trying to locate from somewhere.

Dave

[cwt]

jacked, on 24 January 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

It is the AP20 I am trying to locate from somewhere.

Dave

Thats unfortunate ;trying to market the RS20i it seems May well effect this ''special order'' as well good luck .

http://www.icecostor...-DATASAT/Detail

[lucmor444]

jacked, on 24 January 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Thanks for the link but Datasat only want to sell the RS20i to the home market, they seem to have clamped down and are restricting the AP20 for the commercial sector.

It is the AP20 I am trying to locate from somewhere.

Dave

I also understand that Datasat no longer sells the AP20 to the general consumer.  I have seen a couple of AP20s on Ebay USA and one was recently advertised in the classified section on avsforums - not a common product seen for sale from my experience and it may just be a matter of patience and regularly checking Ebay, audiogon, the key forums etc.

[jacked]

cwt, on 24 January 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Thats unfortunate ;trying to market the RS20i it seems May well effect this ''special order'' as well good luck .

http://www.icecostor...-DATASAT/Detail

lucmor444, on 25 January 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

I also understand that Datasat no longer sells the AP20 to the general consumer.  I have seen a couple of AP20s on Ebay USA and one was recently advertised in the classified section on avsforums - not a common product seen for sale from my experience and it may just be a matter of patience and regularly checking Ebay, audiogon, the key forums etc.

Thanks,

The AP20 sold on AVS was bought by my mate. We spent last Sunday trying it in my room and to see how it compares to the ADA.

Because of that brief demo session there are now 2 of us trying to source an AP20, I would love to go for the RS20i in the long-term but it is way out of budget.

The £11000 plus price difference between the 2 Datasat models is crazy !!

Dave

[Spidey1]

jacked, on 26 January 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

Thanks,

The AP20 sold on AVS was bought by my mate. We spent last Sunday trying it in my room and to see how it compares to the ADA.

Because of that brief demo session there are now 2 of us trying to source an AP20, I would love to go for the RS20i in the long-term but it is way out of budget.

The £11000 plus price difference between the 2 Datasat models is crazy !!

Dave

It is very rare that you will find an ap20 for sale but you never know..

Edited by Spidey1, 26 January 2013 - 07:34 PM.

[lucmor444]

With thanks to Abone over at avforums for this information the new 'free' expansion card for the RS20i provides the following:

DATASAT EXPANSION CARD
We are pleased to announce the Datasat Expansion Card, which will unlock a whole host of new features on the RS20i audio processor. At the heart of this new card are two additional powerful DSPs to bring the total DSP power to 8 chips for the most powerful processing available.
The Datasat Expansion Card includes the following:

NEW DECODERS
The following new decoders are in addition to the existing Dolby Digital, DTS and DTS HDMA decoders.
Dolby Technologies
- Dolby Digital Plus NEW
- Dolby Pro Logic IIz NEW
- Dolby Pro Logic IIx NEW
- Dolby TrueHD NEW
DTS Technologies
- DTS Neo:X NEW

NEW SPEAKER CONFIGURATIONS UP TO 11.1
DTS Neo:X supports front wide and front height speakers (up to 11.1). Dolby TrueHD supports front height speakers (up to 9.1). The Datasat Expansion Card increases the number of speaker configurations to 11 plus phantom centre.
RS20i Speaker Configurations will include:
2.0 (L, R)
3.0 (L, R, C)
4.0 (L, R, Ls, Rs)
5.1 (L, R, C, Ls, Rs, Sw)
7.1h (5.1 + L height, R height) NEW
7.1w (5.1 + L wide, R wide) NEW
9.1hw (5.1 + L height, R height, L wide, R wide) NEW
7.1 (L, R, C, Ls, Rs, Lbs, Rbs, Sw)
9.1h (7.1 + L height, R height) NEW
9.1w (7.1 + L wide, R wide) NEW
11.1hw (7.1 + L height, R height, L wide, R wide) NEW

DTS NEO:X NEW
DTS NEO:X can upmix to any of the speaker configurations. NEW
DTS NEO:X can be applied to all decoded streams: 2/6/8ch PCM, DTS 2.0/5.1/7.1 and Dolby 2.0/5.1/7.1. NEW
Dolby Pro Logic IIx/z NEW
Dolby Pro Logic IIx works for 7.1. NEW
Dolby Pro Logic IIz can be configured for 9.1h adding the front height. NEW

Dirac Live
An additional 4 channels of Dirac will be added (16 in total). NEW

Bass Management
The existing Datasat Bass Management allows for the ultimate in bass management versatility. Each channel may be combined with the LFE channel in order to extend the low range beyond what can be heard from the individual channel’s speaker based on its individual frequency response. The software allows you to define the crossover filter frequency and slope to best match the speaker(s). The high pass and low pass filters range from 31Hz to 160Hz, and can be set using either 12dB/octave or 24dB/octave ranges.
There is one configuration for each of the channel pairs, and a separate configuration for the centre channel. There are now configurations for six speaker groups:
1. Centre speaker
2. Left front and right front
3. Left surround and right surround
4. Rear left surround and rear right surround 5. Left height and right height NEW
6. Left wide and right wide NEW
The RS20i can also be configured with up to four subwoofers, optional phantom centre and phantom surrounds.

[BladeRnR]

That's awesome lucmore thanks for the update

Blade

[lucmor444]

While I am still waiting for the Dolby HD expansion card (Datasat are a bit slow getting this out to owners in the States but have been very quick in supplying owners in the UK) word is that another expansion card (giving the RS20i an additional 8 output channels for 24 channels in total) is just around the corner and it appears a software update is also coming for Auro 3D.

[cwt]

That would be a treat lucmor 24 channels of object based auro 3d next gen sound   If you haven't got it yet that trondheime solistene disc mentioned earlier [page 1] is  all off a sudden a bit more relevant . Related a good read i happened on ;

http://www.auro-3d.c...White-Paper.pdf
Some fascinating theories on upsampling in this white paper caught the eye too   

Quote

In the past decades, a trend emerged to go to higher sample rates. It is commonly known that human hearing
is limited to approximately 20kHz for discrete sine waves. The sampling frequency for digital audio was initially
defined with this limit in mind, hence the well-known sample rates of 44.1kHz (for audio-CD) and 48kHz (for
DVD and video).
Research has shown, however, that the phase-accuracy of the human hearing is far more precise as it is a.o
related to the shortest neural impulse in the brain: approx. 4-5µs. This is the period of a signal of about
200kHz, which cannot be heard as a signal (tone) on itself, but can be detected as phase differences.
According to the Nyquist theorem, such high frequencies (or rather these small wavelengths and phase
differences), need to be sampled at about 400kHz. Above this rate, humans cannot detect any changes
anymore.
This, as well as other technical aspects (e.g. the phase accuracy of the DAC reconstruction filters), explains
why higher sample rates (96, 192, 384kHz) still can be perceived to be sounding more open and natural.

Edited by cwt, 26 May 2013 - 03:31 AM.

[lucmor444]

I think Auro 3D is channel based rather than object based and it will be interesting to see how many discs are made available with this codec.  More practical to me is that it appears that it can upmix current discs to 13.1.

DTS MDA looks the most likely object based candidate to reach the home theatre market first but still some years off - with these most recent developments from Datasat I have growing confidence that the RS20i may also be able to use such codecs (Datasat have indicated that the RS20i should have a production run of at least 10 years).

I don't think I will ever need 24 channels but only a few months ago never considered I would be using 16 channels.  I am now in the process of upgrading to a 12.4 set up.

[BladeRnR]

Certainly exciting stuff. It seems Datasat are keeping their promise on supporting this processor.

Blade

[cwt]

lucmor444, on 26 May 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

I think Auro 3D is channel based rather than object based and it will be interesting to see how many discs are made available with this codec.  More practical to me is that it appears that it can upmix current discs to 13.1.

DTS MDA looks the most likely object based candidate to reach the home theatre market first but still some years off - with these most recent developments from Datasat I have growing confidence that the RS20i may also be able to use such codecs (Datasat have indicated that the RS20i should have a production run of at least 10 years).

I don't think I will ever need 24 channels but only a few months ago never considered I would be using 16 channels.  I am now in the process of upgrading to a 12.4 set up.

Yes it is channel based - read  the 'octopus' reference and assumed Will be great one day to have soundtracks conform to the speakers you can manage in the room ; Roger Dressler as you can well imagine being 'Mr dolby' likes object based ; interesting times

Quote

I have no reason to believe it doesn't work, but adding more fixed channels, be it 11.1 or 22.2, is not the way forward. Most likely 3D soundtracks will follow the road of IOSONO, using object- based audio, which is gaining traction for example as described by DTS or others, and possibly standardized in MPEG-H. Once you deliver audio that way, it plays nicely on however many speakers you want to feed.

[Brad Cl]

The following articles may be of interest
http://www.acousticf...-processor.html
and
http://www.acousticf...pro-with-a-htpc

If you don't really need video switching (ie don't have a specific external source) and can deal with a bit more configuring than the datasat unit, you can get the same capability from a PC for about 1/3 the price. A top quality pro audio 8 - 12 channel DAC is about $5k

[lucmor444]

It is normally the case that DYI options can be cheaper or specced to an even higher quality but I don't think that is the market Datasat is pitching to.