247 replies to this topic

[blybo]

any suggestion that this could by more beneficial to someone running an older 720p projector and unable to get ministerial approval for a new 1080p model. Could I use this as a worthwhile stop gap to improve things until the Z5 finally kicks the bucket?

[cwt]

blybo, on 17 July 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

any suggestion that this could by more beneficial to someone running an older 720p projector and unable to get ministerial approval for a new 1080p model. Could I use this as a worthwhile stop gap to improve things until the Z5 finally kicks the bucket?

Since its a lcd model blybo I think the extra sharpness [ considering lcd fill factors] will be worth the small investment If it can be configured to help a bitrate starved fta signal [or US satellite hd ].... Jeff Meier [accucal] had these thoughts /

Quote

This product does not function like the current detail enhancement circuits or sharpness controls. It appears to alter the local gamma with a variable bandpass logic. It is effective at restoring image sharpness lost from excessive electronic filtering or less than perfect optical systems without the characteristic edge enhancement from older methods. It is also capable of further enhancing the object contrast when the level is action is increased.

I will be purchasing this for my projection system, but not my Pioneer Elite plasma.

[yorac]

BladeRnR, on 17 July 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Thanks mate, no rush, just wanted to know the state of the nation.

Form all reports here (And the Widescreen Review I read) it offers between "some" and "Significant" improvement. Combined with proper video calibration I think, for the money, it's a worthwhile investment.  

Cheers

Blade

my impressions would go with the "some" theory but in all fairness was only viewing stills rather than a whole film, agree at the price a reasonably worthwhile investment for PJ owners..............

[:)]

blybo, on 17 July 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

any suggestion that this could by more beneficial to someone running an older 720p projector and unable to get ministerial approval for a new 1080p model. Could I use this as a worthwhile stop gap to improve things until the Z5 finally kicks the bucket?

maybe when get more common place can borrow one from an owner see if worth it to you. but if money is scarce. rather than the darblet I'd stick the cash in the piggy bank saving for the pj upgrade instead

work on convincing the wife on the PJ upgrade ! quality current model 1080p pjs are a lot more within reach from $2k upwards brand new !

reason I say is while the darblet gives some incremental improvement its not going to give anything near the kind of improvement possible going from a 720p pj from some years ago to a current model 1080p pj. And its not just the 1080p resolution to get the best off blu-ray but pjs themselves have come a fair way

[Chopsus]

+ 1 .... Nothing will beat more pixels

[blybo]

:), on 17 July 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

maybe when get more common place can borrow one from an owner see if worth it to you. but if money is scarce. rather than the darblet I'd stick the cash in the piggy bank saving for the pj upgrade instead

work on convincing the wife on the PJ upgrade ! quality current model 1080p pjs are a lot more within reach from $2k upwards brand new !

reason I say is while the darblet gives some incremental improvement its not going to give anything near the kind of improvement possible going from a 720p pj from some years ago to a current model 1080p pj. And its not just the 1080p resolution to get the best off blu-ray but pjs themselves have come a fair way

I understand all this but it's not a lack of funds keeping SWMBO from allowing an upgrade... She is just flatly against replacing something that still works. And I must say now having a dedicated room our Z5 has never looked better. But I know there is so much more sharpness available from a 1080 display. Once the Z5 dies we will hopefully stretch to something around the X70 level.

My theory on this darblet is it will still be of benefit on whatever projector we eventually replace ours with.

[:)]

blybo, on 17 July 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

I understand all this but it's not a lack of funds keeping SWMBO from allowing an upgrade... She is just flatly against replacing something that still works. And I must say now having a dedicated room our Z5 has never looked better. But I know there is so much more sharpness available from a 1080 display. Once the Z5 dies we will hopefully stretch to something around the X70 level.

My theory on this darblet is it will still be of benefit on whatever projector we eventually replace ours with.

well thats easily fixed ! you did mention something about a bucket   just make sure its filled with water before the pj finds its way into it  !

[Quark]

More subtle than a bucket: just turn off the power at the wall a few times while it's running!

[bbar]

blybo, on 17 July 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

I understand all this but it's not a lack of funds keeping SWMBO from allowing an upgrade... She is just flatly against replacing something that still works. And I must say now having a dedicated room our Z5 has never looked better. But I know there is so much more sharpness available from a 1080 display. Once the Z5 dies we will hopefully stretch to something around the X70 level.

My theory on this darblet is it will still be of benefit on whatever projector we eventually replace ours with.

Agree with others that going with a 1080p pj would be better; but I suspect you would get good value from the Darblet.  One of the reviewers, one noted in this thread, said they got great value from the darblet when used with a cable box, (ala Foxtel type arrangement) so you may find if provides same with a 720p pj.

We did not try downscaling a blu-ray to 720p at the GTG so cannot say for sure what it would look like.

As Al mentioned, maybe Cinema Mad or Agless, when his arrives, can test at 720p and let you know how it performs.

Edited by bbar, 18 July 2012 - 08:31 AM.

[Chopsus]

The other thing to consider here is if there is any Video Processing going on in the PJ ..downscaling via a player, to the Darby, to a PJ with a HQV Reon or other chip in it will also affect the final result.

[Owen]

The Darby is boosting the MTF (contrast) of spatial frequencies well below 1080 lines per picture height and should therefor offer significant advantages to 720p projector owners.

Look at the screen shots posted earlier, they have very low resolution yet the effect of the Darby can be clearly seen.

Edited by Owen, 18 July 2012 - 01:07 PM.

[cwt]

blybo, on 17 July 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

My theory on this darblet is it will still be of benefit on whatever projector we eventually replace ours with.

Thats the crux of the matter blybo - as has been mentioned @ avs one bloke had one hooked up to  a $$ sim2 3 chipper and wont go back . As Bryan says its not just for bd's  ; not to mention the new firmware ones wont be altering the colourspace at all so any y cb cr calibration thats done wont need a rgb output set

Another thought ; get a wireworld hdmi 1.4 chroma 6 cable ; and you will see a sleeve on the end  saying ''this end of the cable must be next to the tv'' . Its for the ethernet but if you go 3d you can use bandwidth and ethernet excuses for 1080p goodness never mind if the new projector needs ethernet just say its so the dealer can diagnose faults over the web ..

[Chicken Man]

blybo, on 17 July 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

I understand all this but it's not a lack of funds keeping SWMBO from allowing an upgrade... She is just flatly against replacing something that still works. And I must say now having a dedicated room our Z5 has never looked better. But I know there is so much more sharpness available from a 1080 display. Once the Z5 dies we will hopefully stretch to something around the X70 level.

My theory on this darblet is it will still be of benefit on whatever projector we eventually replace ours with.

I have a Sanyo Z2, a Sanyo Z4 and now a Epson TW5500.

I waited for the Z2 to die.....never did, I upgraded to the Sanyo Z4 and waited for it to die......it never did. I finally gave up and bought the Epson TW5500, a dream machine for the price I paid. I think Matt has an ex-demo model available at ......

http://www.thecableconnection.com.au/

The Sanyo's are so persistently reliable that you'll go through lamp after lamp before it is even likely to surrender to wear and tear years from now.

C.M

[blybo]

Chicken Man, on 19 July 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

I have a Sanyo Z2, a Sanyo Z4 and now a Epson TW5500.

I waited for the Z2 to die.....never did, I upgraded to the Sanyo Z4 and waited for it to die......it never did. I finally gave up and bought the Epson TW5500, a dream machine for the price I paid. I think Matt has an ex-demo model available at ......

http://www.thecableconnection.com.au/

The Sanyo's are so persistently reliable that you'll go through lamp after lamp before it is even likely to surrender to wear and tear years from now.

C.M

Hmmm, maybe I'll slow roast it as Quark suggested as I have a power switch (which is currently taped into the on position) next to the light switches because my outlet is hidden in the ceiling... Maybe not... I'll wait till the minister for finances gets her tax return though, they are usually in the 5 figure bracket . Memory lens shift is a necessity for us so I'm pretty much limited the JVC's at this stage, as I'll also need to mount higher than the top of my screen which would disable the Pana lens shift .

Edited by blybo, 21 July 2012 - 11:16 AM.

[lucmor444]

yorac, on 16 July 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

Cheers mate, yet to discuss with Matt mate, but will do so later today or tomorrow and advise...........

Hi Yorac - do you think a GB is a goer - I am keen to get a unit now that they seem to have fixed the RGB output issue.

Edited by lucmor444, 26 July 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[deandob]

Normally I shun external "magic" boxes for home theatre however this device looks very interesting given the reviews especially for projector owners using a large screen. An Aussie GB would be great if  it can be organised.

[Prior]

Before jumping in, you really need to view it in action.
On a moving picture, from what was seen at the GTG, the improvement was 'marginal' at best.
On still images, sure, the improvement was substantial, but it just wasn't noticeable when watching a scene, especially when viewing a BD and using a half decent projector.

I didn't see the value in the product from that POV, so I'd reccomend testing one out, if possible, in line with your own gear.

Cheers,

Chris

[Chopsus]

Did you run any sub 1080 material through it at the GTG?

Interested to hear if it makes downloaded material better or worse.

[yorac]

Okay had a chat with Matt from TCC yesterday regarding a potential GB, if you are interested then call him during business hours and register an expression of interest..........

Matt can then conclude whether there is enough interest to go ahead and please note Matt is not looking to add anything to any pricing here, he is only looking to see if he can make it easier to bring these in for forum members........

[:)]

good to hear matt coming to the party there to help out. hopefully enough interest there for guys to pick up on a bargain

[Chopsus]

You gunna pull the trigger on one Al?

I guess for the money there will always be someone on the forum willing to take it off my hands if I decide it;s not for me.

[:)]

Chopsus, on 29 July 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

You gunna pull the trigger on one Al?

I guess for the money there will always be someone on the forum willing to take it off my hands if I decide it;s not for me.

I'll hold off myself chops, spent up a bit on camera upgrade and few other goodies this year that drained the kitty significantly, saving the penies for now probably wont be till next year till things recharge.

I dare say your right if something bought be easy enough to pass on if want but a damn pity darby hasnt taken up offer of a sort of pass around of the unit here via the forum. people could then try for themselves to decide and probably lot more sure if something for them or not

[deandob]

Interesting. Posts on avsforum are pretty positive, especially from users with large projection screens. It's definitely better to view it before purchasing but the price isn't too high and I could sell it locally if it doesn't meet expectations. I'll talk to Matt at TCC in the morning.

Prior, on 29 July 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

Before jumping in, you really need to view it in action.
On a moving picture, from what was seen at the GTG, the improvement was 'marginal' at best.
On still images, sure, the improvement was substantial, but it just wasn't noticeable when watching a scene, especially when viewing a BD and using a half decent projector.

I didn't see the value in the product from that POV, so I'd reccomend testing one out, if possible, in line with your own gear.

Cheers,

Chris

[Owen]

I'm inclined to try one even though I am 90% certain I can be a better job with the 6k upscaling and progressing I use for Bluray.
I cant use that for Austar so I'm interested and would be happy to give Matt my business.

[deandob]

Owen, isn't your processing upscaling, sharpening & downscaling, so its not the same as the Darblet? it would be perfect for HTPC owners having the Darbee algorithm available as part of the video driver or even as a video filter, although it seems DarbeeVision is setup to sell its IP to OEMs like TV manufacturers or even NVidia, there is no news on this front. I'm wondering using ffdshow/avisynth it should be possible to knock up a script that does something basically similar (although unlikely to be as good due to all the R&D invested by DarbeeVision). I had a quick look on Doom9 and no one seems to be looking into this. The algorithm is described in the whitepaper (defocus & subtract on objects in the foreground) so it may be possible to write a script, but is bound to be computationally expensive compared to the dedicated Darblet hardware but if you have a powerful HTPC it could be worth the experiment.