247 replies to this topic

[Owen]

buddhamus, on 18 January 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

He thinks his own sharpening system is the be all end all!.........Just cant get through to him.....almost brick wall type lol.

I never once said any such thing, the two systems are quite different. Mine is straight MTF enhancement with no gamma alterations.

[Owen]

deandob, on 18 January 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Owen,

I'm a long time HTPC user and like you initially thought the darbee effect can be emulated via custom filters, FFDShow etc. but I have not been able to find anything that comes close to the darbee in terms of the extra pop it produces. It uses some form of dynamic gamma that is selectively applied in the foreground and contrast enhancement on top of the sharpening.

It may be snake oil but the resultant picture just looks better which is what counts.

I'd prefer not to have an extra box but until there is something available using a PC filter or software video processor that can do the same thing, my darbee is staying. Apparently Adobe photoshop has filters that can do similar things, and I'm wondering why the FFDshow (with AVIsynth) crowd have not tried to emulate it given the popularity of the darbee but I guess with the amount of processing needed it would take a pretty big CPU. Darbee have PC code for the algorithm that can be implemented through the GPU but it doesn't seem to be available for DIY implementations.

Unless you customize your gamma curve you wont get the same sort of look as the Darbee because the Darbee is altering gamma. Did you try altering gamma to look like the Darbee?

Photoshops and Premiere's sharpen filters are not pretty and unsharp mask is a edge enhancer and bloody ugly IMHO. Its about time Adobe lifted their act as their video sharpening tools suck.

You cant put much processing power in a little plastic box with no heat sink. If you could CPU's and GPU's wouldn't need fan forced heat sinks to stop them overheating.

Edited by Owen, 18 January 2013 - 09:22 PM.

[deandob]

Owen, its not just about adjusting gamma - Darbee is applying some form of dynamic gamma selectively to the picture and you can't do that on a PC AFAIK. It will need a special filter that does a similar thing. The darbee uses a FPGA which is a hardware implementation of the darbee software algorithm which is a lot more efficient that a CPU/GPU, and has sufficient processing power without the need for a heatsink.

[:)]

the thing with this stuff is technology and capabilities moves on at a frightening pace, theres no point locking yourself in a paradigm of old. otherwise thats where always remain. talking, thinking, reading about it is one thing. but jumping in and experiencing is a whole another thing. thats when really get to appreciate and understand somethings capabilities. And the thing is cheap enough you could just buy and pass on if doesnt quite meet requirements/expectations. which is just what some have done while others are really quite taken with what can deliver which is really pretty typical and to be expected

[3daysofrain]

I' m interested the Darby also and meanwhile I've been tinkering with the Oppo 103's sharpening using its QDEO tech on HDMI 1. This is definitely not 'just' sharpening as it looks like it's effecting contrast/gamma also. I wonder if this chip is doing something similar to the darby? My Kuro ISF calibration was for sharpness at -15 and with the Oppo sharpening on +1 the extra detail is amazing.

Only thing I've been worried about is introducing anomalies like flicker/banding etc.

Very keen to check out the darby for comparison.

[agelessgoodguy]

Just a quick note to say that after the GB demo and my purchase back then I've had absolutely no issues with it in service 8-10 hours a day every day. Just forget its in the system, 63" Samsung Plasma was fixed free of charge by Samsung within two weeks so all good.

[buddhamus]

Ok guys,

RGB color space issue is fixed with a firmware update as I read posts on AVS confirming this. You also shouldnt have a problem using your AVR as a switcher...as Ive seen various people on AVS running this combo with different AVRS and processors without any trouble...maybe a few odd cases but Im guessing it could be due to a faulty unit they received or some other issue.......but majority have worked absolutely fine.

I have also contacted Darbee's Vision further confirming my findings!...just waiting to hear back from them.

Cheers,
Kevin

[:)]

good stuff bud, adds to the confidence factor

[Corza13]

Just received my new Darbee! Ordered a day or two before the GB was announced, oh well. Smooth transaction from Smarthome and quick shipping. Looking forward to installing tonight, I'll report back on my thoughts.

Cheers

Corza

[SLE355]

Let us know what your set-up is.

[BladeRnR]

Corza13, on 21 January 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

Just received my new Darbee! Ordered a day or two before the GB was announced, oh well. Smooth transaction from Smarthome and quick shipping. Looking forward to installing tonight, I'll report back on my thoughts.

Cheers

Corza

Nice. Do let us know your thoughts please mate. I value your opinion.

Blade

[Corza13]

Ok, so may have made a bit of aistake re the power cable. Plugged it in to the round what I thought was 5v cable I use for a WD hard drive. The Darbee gave a couple of little blue light flashes and that was that. No power, no picture when I plugged the HDMI in. Jeez I'm stupid sometes, I think I've blown the thing. Not sure why the cable I use for the small hard rive wouldn't be ok?

I'm so pissed off right now...

[dave_con]

Corza13, on 21 January 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Ok, so may have made a bit of aistake re the power cable. Plugged it in to the round what I thought was 5v cable I use for a WD hard drive. The Darbee gave a couple of little blue light flashes and that was that. No power, no picture when I plugged the HDMI in. Jeez I'm stupid sometes, I think I've blown the thing. Not sure why the cable I use for the small hard rive wouldn't be ok?

I'm so pissed off right now...

I did someone similar.  Plugged my Darbee into all my gear whilst it was all in STANDBY.  There was enough power going through the HDMI cables to fry the unit, and I got nothing.  It was replaced under warranty, and Fed-ex'd to and from the US at their expense.  This time I plugged everything in with everything switched off at the mains, and I had no problems.

Start a warranty claim now!

[Chopsus]

Corza13, on 21 January 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Ok, so may have made a bit of aistake re the power cable. Plugged it in to the round what I thought was 5v cable I use for a WD hard drive. The Darbee gave a couple of little blue light flashes and that was that. No power, no picture when I plugged the HDMI in. Jeez I'm stupid sometes, I think I've blown the thing. Not sure why the cable I use for the small hard rive wouldn't be ok?

I'm so pissed off right now...

WD drives run on 12 volt power packs ...

[buddhamus]

Corza13, on 21 January 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Ok, so may have made a bit of aistake re the power cable. Plugged it in to the round what I thought was 5v cable I use for a WD hard drive. The Darbee gave a couple of little blue light flashes and that was that. No power, no picture when I plugged the HDMI in. Jeez I'm stupid sometes, I think I've blown the thing. Not sure why the cable I use for the small hard rive wouldn't be ok?

I'm so pissed off right now...

Ahh that sucks! ....was looking forward to your impressions!. Ahh wells, things like that happen to the best of us!

[Htpc-online]

I'm sorry to hear that mate, but i did have a little chuckle at your expense Why didn't you just buy a us/au converter plug or just bend the pins with pilers like many others have done.

[dave_con]

Chopsus, on 21 January 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

WD drives run on 12 volt power packs ...

Ah.  I'd say you have some problems then, Corza!

[Blonk]

Corza13, on 21 January 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Ok, so may have made a bit of aistake re the power cable. Plugged it in to the round what I thought was 5v cable I use for a WD hard drive. The Darbee gave a couple of little blue light flashes and that was that. No power, no picture when I plugged the HDMI in. Jeez I'm stupid sometes, I think I've blown the thing. Not sure why the cable I use for the small hard rive wouldn't be ok?

I'm so pissed off right now...

With luck there may be an internal fuse that you popped. Does it look like something you may be able to disassemble and check?

[dave_con]

Blonk, on 22 January 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

With luck there may be an internal fuse that you popped. Does it look like something you may be able to disassemble and check?

When I blew mine with the HDMI cables, an electronic-minded friend opened mine up to check (very easy to do), and quickly spotted the blackened component.  However, the whole thing is a circuit board, so I'm not sure how easy that is for anyone to change bits out.  It was certainly beyond my level of capability.

[Corza13]

Thanks for the replies guys. Yes, I'd say I have issues. I checked the WD power cable before I plugged it in! Damn...

I didn't have anything plugged into the unit at the time, I just connected the power cable.

[buddhamus]

OK, I got a reply from  Darbee directly regarding my findings with the previous bugs that were know...and they are now fixed!.

Quote

Hi Kevin,

The color space issue was fixed with a firmware release on Aug 1.  All product shipped since then has the latest firmware with that update.  Using an AVR as a switcher is the most common way to use the Darblet.

Thanks,

Larry

[Owen]

deandob, on 19 January 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

Owen, its not just about adjusting gamma - Darbee is applying some form of dynamic gamma selectively to the picture and you can't do that on a PC AFAIK. It will need a special filter that does a similar thing. The darbee uses a FPGA which is a hardware implementation of the darbee software algorithm which is a lot more efficient that a CPU/GPU, and has sufficient processing power without the need for a heatsink.

I'll take your word for the "dynamic" behavior as I cant properly access that from the photos available to me, but so far I see no evidence or even a need for dynamic changes.
For my proposes I hope the Darbee it is not dynamic in nature as dynamic behavior is by nature unpredictable and results will vary depending on the scene, good in some , bad in others. That's a situation I would rather avoid.
I'm pretty confident its not doing dynamic alterations to the picture and on that basis I'll buy one to test.
According the the photos the Darbee is boosting the contrast (MTF) of relatively low spatial frequencies, something the sharpen control in your projector will not do. That's useful if used in moderation and why I want to test a Darbee. It's nothing revolutionary as its just boosting a lower frequency than normal.

[Owen]

3daysofrain, on 19 January 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

I' m interested the Darby also and meanwhile I've been tinkering with the Oppo 103's sharpening using its QDEO tech on HDMI 1. This is definitely not 'just' sharpening as it looks like it's effecting contrast/gamma also. I wonder if this chip is doing something similar to the darby? My Kuro ISF calibration was for sharpness at -15 and with the Oppo sharpening on +1 the extra detail is amazing.

Only thing I've been worried about is introducing anomalies like flicker/banding etc.

Very keen to check out the darby for comparison.

Sharpness and contrast are inseparable, sharpness is impossible without high relative contrast.
Sharpening systems boost the contrast of high spatial frequencies, thats there primary function.