19 replies to this topic

[oztheatre]

I want one!

http://www.harkness-..._projector.html

HARKNESS SCREENS SUPPLIES GIANT SCREEN TO HELP BARCO SHOWCASE 55,000 LUMEN LASER PROJECTOR

GALVESTON, TEXAS, JANUARY 30th, 2011 — Harkness Screens, the world’s leading manufacturer of cinema screens, recently supported Barco with a preview of its new laser-illuminated projector, a prototype which surpassed the brightness world record at the second annual Moody Gardens Digital Cinema Symposium in Galveston, Texas.
After holding Guinness world-record status as the brightest single projector with 43,000 ANSI Lumens since December 2010, Barco dramatically increased this to an excess of 55,000 ANSI Lumens with its latest laser projector prototype. The demonstration which was carried out on a 72-foot-wide (22m) Harkness Screens surface astonished the symposium’s audience made up of industry professionals, with incredible brightness and sharpness levels.
“Barco is dedicated to progressing cinema display technologies”, says Todd Hoddick, Barco’s VP for Entertainment, North America. “Harkness was a responsive and key partner in our quest to showcase this progression. Laser illumination has great promise, and we are proud to have shown the industry what our projector is capable of doing on a 72 foot screen.”
The single-source solid-state laser illumination provided a screen luminance of 22 foot-lamberts (fL) for 2D presentation, measured on a 100-foot throw (30.5m), significantly above the current DCI standards.
“This is a significant step for digital projection and although laser technology is a few years away from being commercially available, what we saw from Barco was an outstanding glimpse into the future of cinema presentation. We were thrilled to support Barco with this record setting event and look forward to working with them and other manufacturers as the technology develops,” says Keith Watanabe, Americas Sales Director of Harkness Screens.
About Harkness Screens
Harkness Screens is the world’s leading manufacturer of large screens. Thousands of screens are supplied every year for cinema, film production, special effects, live events and custom AV applications. Founded in 1929, Harkness has recently celebrated its 80th year in business and has screens in place in over 60 countries. With its corporate office located in the Ireland, other offices and factories are located in UK, France, Beijing and Fredericksburg, VA. Harkness Screens combines unrivalled experience with the latest technology to provide innovative solutions to the company’s key markets worldwide. For more information, visit the Harkness Screens web page at www.harkness-screens.com.

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wow really sounds like quite a combination.

now who would'nt want a little baby barco with laser eyes

[Owen]

Me, single source scanning laser? I thought line scanning died with CRT.
Its almost certainly DLP so contrast will be very ordinary, seems the only advantage is brightness that is too high to tolerate without sun glasses.
Probably designed with 3D in mind, it should do that job very well.

[oztheatre]

It's only 22 fl, not that bright.

[Owen]

22fl is ok for a small screen like a TV that only fills a small percentage of your vision, however for a big screen viewing in total darkness I find 22fl intolerable, 11fl is plenty.
Maybe I have sensitive eyes.

[oztheatre]

Owen, on 08 June 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

22fl is ok for a small screen like a TV that only fills a small percentage of your vision, however for a big screen viewing in total darkness I find 22fl intolerable, 11fl is plenty.
Maybe I have sensitive eyes.

Ah I see. didnt think of it that way. fair point!

[MarkTecher]

Owen, on 08 June 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

22fl is ok for a small screen like a TV that only fills a small percentage of your vision, however for a big screen viewing in total darkness I find 22fl intolerable, 11fl is plenty.
Maybe I have sensitive eyes.

Agreed.  When I first fired up the BenQW6000 it was measuring over 33FL out of the box!  After calibration, I got down to 14 and it currently sitting on just under 16FL.

[:)]

As far as i know for cinemas smpte standard is 16 FL at centre min 12 max 22. Which is prob why the barco and harkness setup is aiming for 22.

A lot of this I think down to pers pref some like dim pj's I like pop ! My pj is sitting on lowest-output best mode at 22FL and loving it. though down to 14-16 think can tolerate ! Hehe

[agelessgoodguy]

For those in or able to attend the Moonshadow show at the Princess theater in Melbourne you will get to see four 20,000 lumen units some in split image mode too producing floating props and other niceties. Well 3 are on the dress circle rail and the other is used in reverse mirror mode behind the rear screen of the stage. Quite a nice show and full of technically driven features Oh and great projection too

Slightly off topic but needed to be said.........

[Owen]

:), on 08 June 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

As far as i know for cinemas smpte standard is 16 FL at centre min 12 max 22. Which is prob why the barco and harkness setup is aiming for 22.

A lot of this I think down to pers pref some like dim pj's I like pop ! My pj is sitting on lowest-output best mode at 22FL and loving it. though down to 14-16 think can tolerate ! Hehe

I have never seen a commercial cinema with anything like 16fl but I have only been about 3 times in the last 10 years, maybe they are getting brighter in newly equipped cinemas.

What size screen are you using and at what viewing distance? The larger the viewing angle the less fl is required.

[Owen]

agelessgoodguy, on 08 June 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

For those in or able to attend the Moonshadow show at the Princess theater in Melbourne you will get to see four 20,000 lumen units some in split image mode too producing floating props and other niceties. Well 3 are on the dress circle rail and the other is used in reverse mirror mode behind the rear screen of the stage. Quite a nice show and full of technically driven features Oh and great projection too

Slightly off topic but needed to be said.........

My wife and I where in Melbourne last week (last time was 30 years ago ) staying in Bourke street just around the corner from the Princess. As Cat Stevens fans we where interested in the show but when we found out it was a musical rather than a concert all interest was lost.

[Highjinx]

The 16ft is a standard set to hide film artifacts, bulb economy etc.

Interesting Info.........Wiki

Brightest day light:11152 Ft/L

Bight Sunlight: 10223 Ft/L

Shade on a Clear sky day :1858 Ft/L

Over Cast Day: 929 Ft/L


I say bring on 100ft/l for Cinema........

I can view in between 35 - 90 ft/l.........prefer 35 over 90, only because at 90 compression and other artifacts are visible.

[Owen]

I reckon a lot of cinemas are be very economical with their lamps, anyone else seen 16fl in a cinema?

Stepping out of a totally dark cinema into daylight has never been a pleasant experience for me and if I step back into the cinema I would not be able to see much for a while, not my idea of fun so you can have your 1000 plus fl.
My 70" TV is capable of 100fl but I could not tolerate it that bright unless the viewing environmnet is very bright, got it down to about 25fl for lights on use but still find it too bright for a dark room.
Having said that, its clear many people like very bright images judging by how they have their TV's adjusted and the popularity of very bright LED models so to each their own.

DLP based projection running 22fl equals crappy black levels, we would need a projector with about 15 times better native contrast to get decent blacks. The average cinema goer is not going to care about such things and the move to 3D with the light loss of the 3D glasses has pushed up brightness requirements significantly.

[:)]

Highjinx, on 09 June 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

The 16ft is a standard set to hide film artifacts, bulb economy etc.

Interesting Info.........Wiki

Brightest day light:11152 Ft/L

Bight Sunlight: 10223 Ft/L

Shade on a Clear sky day :1858 Ft/L

Over Cast Day: 929 Ft/L


I say bring on 100ft/l for Cinema........

I can view in between 35 - 90 ft/l.........prefer 35 over 90, only because at 90 compression and other artifacts are visible.

hehe light measurements from real life are pretty amazing, something have measured myself in workplaces and such.

yes nominal 16 is the standard, harkness mentioned here have a data sheet that runs through the ins and outs pretty well

http://www.harkness-...n Luminance.pdf

yeah most direct view tvs 35 FL and more, but definitely a pers pref thing.

and commercial projectors no trouble pumping out some serious output thats for sure !  

[victortubeman]

:), on 08 June 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

As far as i know for cinemas smpte standard is 16 FL at centre min 12 max 22. Which is prob why the barco and harkness setup is aiming for 22.

A lot of this I think down to pers pref some like dim pj's  I like pop ! My pj is sitting on lowest-output best mode at 22FL and loving it.  though down to 14-16 think can tolerate ! Hehe

  The Imax GT standard is 21 FL  in their large imax screens with 15kw lamp,(s) which are rated at 600,000 lumen each and the unofficial 3d spec for dci is 3.5 to 4.5FL.

  These new laser Barco,s will be for  reason,s of cost alone compared to 15/70 imax film.Imax film prints cost from $25k to $55k(avatar 3d) each verses Digital $175 each.Plus the cost of projectors and other equipment.

http://www.lfexamine...s-Digital.htm  
"GSCA president Toby Mensforth moderated a panel discussion on “The Business of Digital,” that focused on the financial, technical, and programming aspects of switching from film to digital projection. Don Kempf, of Giant Screen Films and D3D Cinema, said that hardware costs for a giant-screen theater range from about $125,000 to $450,000, but can be as low as $50,000 to $100,000 for a non-DCI-compliant system in a small auditorium.

Moody Gardens’ president John Zendt showed a table with the initial and operating costs of the 2K digital system compared to the IMAX system. In short, the IMAX system cost $2 million to buy and the digital system cost $380,000. Annual operating costs for IMAX are $305,000 (assuming the standard maintenance contract) and for the digital system are less than $60,000. (This doesn’t count power consumption. Cinema Group’s Richard James reported that when the Clark Planetarium in Salt Lake City replaced its IMAX film system with IMAX digital, its electric bill dropped between $2,000 and $3,000 a month.)

Kempf predicted that the growth of museum digital theaters — of all sizes — would result in the production of more short-form documentaries at significantly lower cost than has been possible with film systems. "

http://collider.com/...n-legacy/66297/

http://drhart.ucoz.c...ndex/imax/0-156

Edited by victortubeman, 09 June 2012 - 05:55 PM.

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some awesome stuff indeed victor, can imagine imax at 21FL as standard. How I like it hehe

I have read too where dci are turning the other away and allowing 3.5-5.5 FL for 3D in commercial theatres. probably more because the commercial theatres not really setup to do justice with the legacy setup they have. its a disgrace a joke ! no bloody wonder find 3D so dim and dissapointing in commercial theatres visited. and prefer to either watch 3D either in the home or in the rare exception where shown at imax

ps your comment about some imax going digital, is not really a great move very much cost saving as outlined. and a pale imitation of what imax is all about, as we discussed back here in this thread.  

http://www.dtvforum....howtopic=106565

lucky we have the real deal in sydney melbourne. but can just hope they dont get down graded for sake of penny pinching ! .

[victortubeman]

I,ve done some research this week as I went to my 1st movie in 3yrs,3d the Avengers and the screen was a smaller size(not v max or Imax real) and was suprised that curtains didn,t open to full screen 2.35 and even worse was only less than 2/3 of an all ready small screen ?The picture was not sharp(much better at home) but it,s 3d and so small I suspect they didn,t present it correctly?The sound was good(much better than usual)

With 3d the problem is brightness, and even with the brightest  barco,s like walter,s twin 4k barco,s 6.5kw lamps each they lack lumen,s (33,000 lumens each) on very large screens(forget imax).

Larger screens(not imax) will benefit with 4k , laser,s and 3d should improve.

I,m going to imax next week so I hopefully i  will be impressed.(going to try vmax also to compare using 4k projector(sony)

[MarkTecher]

victortubeman, on 09 June 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

I,ve done some research this week as I went to my 1st movie in 3yrs,3d the Avengers and the screen was a smaller size(not v max or Imax real) and was suprised that curtains didn,t open to full screen 2.35 and even worse was only less than 2/3 of an all ready small screen ?

This movie was actually 1.85:1 and not Scope like ALL of the super hero films leading up to this one.  Not sure why they did that.

victortubeman, on 09 June 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

The picture was not sharp(much better at home) but it,s 3d and so small I suspect they didn,t present it correctly?The sound was good(much better than usual)

What cinemas did you go to so I can avoid them.  The cinema I saw this is was one of cinema 6 of the Hyperdome.  It was very sharp and the first time I have seen 1.85:1 in a D-Cinema.  I am going to suggest that this presation used the full vertical rez of the projector.  Because most Aussie D-Cinema uses zoom or shrink method for Scope, you don't get the full 1080 on screen.  With a 2K projector, it is about 864 lines Vs about 810 for a 1920 projector at home.

victortubeman, on 09 June 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

With 3d the problem is brightness, and even with the brightest  barco,s like walter,s twin 4k barco,s 6.5kw lamps each they lack lumen,s (33,000 lumens each) on very large screens(forget imax).

Larger screens(not imax) will benefit with 4k , laser,s and 3d should improve.

I,m going to imax next week so I hopefully i  will be impressed.(going to try vmax also to compare using 4k projector(sony)

Agreed.  Brightness and colour fidelity suffer for 3D using Real D passive system.  I found the Dolby 3D system did not suffer as bad, but cinemas don't use it because the expensive glasses and the fact that the general public don't care if they break them.  Real D glasses only cost about $1.00, so not a big loss when some kid thinks they look cool wearing just the frames.

[victortubeman]

Some info about the barco,s
http://displaydaily....g-laser-cinema/

Quote from Display Daily.

"IMAX, Barco and Kodak to Bring Laser Cinema

February 8th, 2012

Last time I did a Display Daily column on laser cinema was back when IMAX announced they had licensed the Kodak laser cinema technology. But, neither IMAX nor Kodak actually builds projectors. Now the other shoe has dropped with announcements by Barco and IMAX that Barco has been chosen to be the exclusive supplier of projectors for IMAX for the next 7 years. According to the announcement, the laser projectors will incorporate technology IMAX has licensed from Kodak.

This 7-year agreement covers both xenon lamp-based projectors and laser projectors. Previously, Christie had supplied the IMAX xenon projectors, so this is a big feather in its cap for Barco. IMAX may not be a huge market itself, but it is certainly a very visible one. The first xenon-based IMAX projectors are expected to be installed by mid-2012. Installation of Barco laser projectors at IMAX venues will begin in 2013.
In January, Barco demonstrated a laser projector with an eye-popping 55,000 lumens. See the February issue of Large Display Reportfor details on that demonstration. Here are some additional technical details of the demonstration that were not available in time for the February LDR:

• •  600 optical watts of laser power (Total R+G+
  
• •  Laser light is coupled to the existing integration rod in a conventional DP 4K-32B optical core.
  
• •  1.38-inch DLP 4K DMD with an illuminated area is 4096 X 2160 pixels was used.
  
• •  Contrast of 2,300:1
  
• •  The wide color gamut of the laser was mapped to a standard digital cinema P3 color gamut for the demo.
  
• •  Everything was self-contained in one projector cabinet 30" wide X 36" high X 60" long (76 x 91 x 152 cm). This includes the lasers and the laser drivers.
  
• •  A standard projection lens was used, with no optical modifications done on the output side of the DLP optical core.
  
• •  The demo was shown on a 70 foot (21.3M) wide Harkness matte screen (1.0 gain) at a light level of 22fL. 22 fL on a gain 1.0 screen area of 2,560 sq. ft. (238M2), corresponds to 56,980 Lumens.
  
• •  Pictures were excellent, with especially good uniformity and resolution across the full screen.
  
• •  There was no observed chromatic aberration in the image.
  
• •  By all reports, speckle was not an issue. Even experienced observers could not see speckle in color bars showing the P3 color gamut. When color bars showing the full laser gamut were shown, the speckle in the green bar was visible although still not objectionable. Barco acknowledges speckle is objectionable on a silver screen for 3D, however.
  
• •  A retrofit program for existing digital cinema projectors is thought to be necessary by Barco, and product development is including that option.
  
• •  The demonstration was not a product yet.
  
• •  Barco listed the challenges as:
     o Regulatory issues
     o Cost
     o Retrofit design issues to allow the lasers to replace an existing xenon   lamp and power supply
     o Speckle on a silver screen.

It is not clear how much Kodak technology was incorporated into the projector used for Barco’s January demonstration. For that matter, it is not clear how much of the Kodak technology will be incorporated into the laser projectors IMAX and Barco will introduce in 2013. The Kodak technology is based on design of an entirely new projector, not a retrofit into a xenon projector and is not intended for retrofit applications. While it is certain some aspects of Kodak technology will be incorporated, since Barco feels the retrofit market is important, aspects of the Kodak technology that depend on a new projector design may be bypassed for now.
One key question about the demonstration: Whose lasers were used? Speculation centers on NECSEL lasers, but IMAX, Barco and NECSEL have not confirmed this. One advantage of using NECSEL lasers is that the large number of emitters needed would significantly reduce speckle. Insight Media estimates that 1400 separate emitters would be needed for NECSEL to product the required green wattage. Since speckle is reduced by Square Root(N) in a system like this, 1400 emitters would reduce the speckle by roughly a factor of 37x. While additional speckle reduction may be needed, this would be a giant first step in speckle reduction. One thing about speckle is not clear: how low a level is required for digital cinema? Projectors with xenon lamps are not speckle free but are considered good enough. This certainly helps define thetarget for IMAX, Barco, Kodak and the laser supplier.'

  KodaK also have a laser system the present cost is approx  600k US$  each so that may be a problem.

[victortubeman]

Thankyou Mark,

It was Event Cinema,s near me (sydney ) ,I have since found out that it was their Largest in this complex of 6,seating 260.This complex was renovated 4yr ago approx, and was very clean but what was very distracting was how bright all the exit lights were.I was tempted to cover the main trouble maker