21 replies to this topic

[HTPCFreak]

The annual event took place over the last weekend, and the Panasonic VT50 was crowned the winner. The TVs that took part in the shootout were:

• Panasonic TC-P65VT50 65-inch plasma HDTV
  
• Samsung PN64E8000 64-inch plasma HDTV
  
• LG 60PM9700 60-inch plasma HDTV
  
• Samsung UN60ES8000 60-inch LED-lit LCD HDTV (side lit)
  
• ELITE PRO-60X5FD 60-inch LED/LCD HDTV (full array LED backlit)
  
• Panasonic TC-L47WT50 47-inch LED-lit LCD HDTV

Here's a good rundown on the event and the eventual winner:

http://www.bigpictur...-Shootout.shtml

Detailed results aren't released yet, neither are the videos (scheduled for 28th May).

[miata]

HTPCFreak, on 22 May 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

The annual event took place over the last weekend, and the Panasonic VT50 was crowned the winner. The TVs that took part in the shootout were:

• Panasonic TC-P65VT50 65-inch plasma HDTV
  
• Samsung PN64E8000 64-inch plasma HDTV
  
• LG 60PM9700 60-inch plasma HDTV
  
• Samsung UN60ES8000 60-inch LED-lit LCD HDTV (side lit)
  
• ELITE PRO-60X5FD 60-inch LED/LCD HDTV (full array LED backlit)
  
• Panasonic TC-L47WT50 47-inch LED-lit LCD HDTV

Here's a good rundown on the event and the eventual winner:

http://www.bigpictur...-Shootout.shtml

Detailed results aren't released yet, neither are the videos (scheduled for 28th May).

A very interesting read, which fortunately confirms that the TV I'm considering is a (very) good choice. :cheer:

[jliang70]

So it is still a battle between two plasma sets pretty much like it was the previous year when the combatants were Samsung D8000 and Panasonic VT30.

[wilsact]

Thanks for the link.  I like the way they do these tests.  Forget specs and all the jargon, just put people in a room (both experts and novices) and see which sets come out on top.

Edited by wilsact, 22 May 2012 - 04:58 PM.

[Alex]

Quote

... fortunately confirms that the TV I'm considering is a (very) good choice.

Those are American SKUs. There's no guarantee that Australian SKUs will perform similarly.

... LG set's motion interpolation feature appeared to still be turned on, even when off, ...
:
... standard black and white zone plate pattern the Panasonic sets displayed an odd interference pattern ...

So dumb that LG & Panasonic harm their own performance. Is it so hard to have a "don't frak with the picture" setting - they can't resist it?

Edited by Alex, 22 May 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[HTPCFreak]

Alex, on 22 May 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Those are American SKUs. There's no guarantee that Australian SKUs will perform the same, is there?

Fairly certain, for the Panasonic and Samsungs at least, that picture quality wise (which is what this shootout looks at only), NA and European models should be practically the same. Just different tuners and slightly modified software, processor and panel should be exactly the same (as well as some of the well known bugs).

Plus the guy that runs hdtvtest.co.uk was there too, so if there were going to be some big differences, he would have said something (as he's already reviewed the ST/GT/VTs).

Edited by HTPCFreak, 22 May 2012 - 07:05 PM.

[miata]

Alex, on 22 May 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Those are American SKUs. There's no guarantee that Australian SKUs will perform similarly.

... LG set's motion interpolation feature appeared to still be turned on, even when off, ...
:
... standard black and white zone plate pattern the Panasonic sets displayed an odd interference pattern ...

So dumb that LG & Panasonic harm their own performance. Is it so hard to have a "don't frak with the picture" setting - they can't resist it?

Maybe not but the British reviews come to the same conclusion.

[Alex]

miata, on 22 May 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Maybe not but the British reviews come to the same conclusion.

Are (Panasonic) Australian SKUs same as British? I guess not.

Edited by Alex, 23 May 2012 - 12:36 PM.

[HTPCFreak]

Alex, on 22 May 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Are (Panasonic) Australian SKUs same as British? I guess not.

Not the same SKUs, but I would be extremely surprised if they're not exactly the same, PQ and feature wise. There's probably more of a difference in things like black level and colour accuracy between the various sizes of the same model in the same geographical area, than between the various geographical SKUs of the same model at any given size.

[HTPCFreak]

Another roundup, and this time with the actual scores (on page 2):

http://www.electroni...tv_shootout/D1/

[mjs]

HTPCFreak, on 23 May 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Not the same SKUs, but I would be extremely surprised if they're not exactly the same, PQ and feature wise. There's probably more of a difference in things like black level and colour accuracy between the various sizes of the same model in the same geographical area, than between the various geographical SKUs of the same model at any given size.

Well, there are definitely differences in features between the VT30 EU/UK and AU models. The AU models being crippled in the calibration area compared with EU/UK models as auto calibration is not possible on the VT30A models. Probably some bits missing in the VT30A models.

Nevertheless, performance is undoubtedly very similar if not the same

[HTPCFreak]

That's right, I forgot that we sometimes miss out on some of the "pro" features, for example the North American version of the Samsung C8000 had two extra CAL-Day/Night modes that wasn't available on the Aus model. There were also some missing features in regards to US only web features. So I shouldn't have said "feature wise", my mistake.

Which brings up another important point about reviews and in particular, this shootout, in that most of them are based on these displays being professionally calibrated. So "out of the box" performance may be very different.

[jliang70]

HTPCFreak, on 24 May 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

That's right, I forgot that we sometimes miss out on some of the "pro" features, for example the North American version of the Samsung C8000 had two extra CAL-Day/Night modes that wasn't available on the Aus model. There were also some missing features in regards to US only web features. So I shouldn't have said "feature wise", my mistake.

Which brings up another important point about reviews and in particular, this shootout, in that most of them are based on these displays being professionally calibrated. So "out of the box" performance may be very different.

I think the calibrated performance is more important evaluation than out of box performance.  Out of box performance for most TV sets are not adjusted according to a industry reference standard so you are effectively comparing TV base on their different default modes and try to draw conclusion base on inaccurate preset modes.

[HTPCFreak]

jliang70, on 24 May 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

I think the calibrated performance is more important evaluation than out of box performance.  Out of box performance for most TV sets are not adjusted according to a industry reference standard so you are effectively comparing TV base on their different default modes and try to draw conclusion base on inaccurate preset modes.

Totally in agreement. Not only on the standards thing, but also because of the variance even between TVs of the same model. I only wanted to mention it because it might explain why this or that TV may look better in stores, or like some have posted in regards to having home tested two different TVs and found one to be better than another, even though the shootout result say otherwise.

And as probably 95% of buyers aren't going to get their TVs professionally calibrated, this is something important to take into account when reading reviews (although some of them do talk about pre-calibration accuracy).

Edited by HTPCFreak, 25 May 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[Serendigity]

Well, I just took delivery of a Panasonic 50" Plasma TV and from what I have seen in a few hours of TV the vast range in the quality of what is broadcast, from very nice HD to fuzzy and woeful SD makes the bigger screen really show the shortcomings of terrestrial broadcast TV a lot of the time. Calibrated or not, top range or mid level or cheapie set, a lot depends on the quality of what you are trying to watch...

[HTPCFreak]

The VT50 was the winner, we already know that, but the runner's up was the ELITE PRO-60X5FD. The Samsung PN64E8000 was in third place. More detailed results here:

http://www.valueelectronics.com/

Some videos from the shootout are up already:

http://www.youtube.c...Shootout/videos

Edited by HTPCFreak, 26 May 2012 - 04:20 PM.

[jliang70]

Serendigity, on 26 May 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

Well, I just took delivery of a Panasonic 50" Plasma TV and from what I have seen in a few hours of TV the vast range in the quality of what is broadcast, from very nice HD to fuzzy and woeful SD makes the bigger screen really show the shortcomings of terrestrial broadcast TV a lot of the time. Calibrated or not, top range or mid level or cheapie set, a lot depends on the quality of what you are trying to watch...

If you want to improve the quality of SD/HD FTA try a dedicated PVR/Tuner run it through a video scaler, this is why people still keep their video processors because they can make SD stuff watchable on a large plasma or projector.

[miata]

HTPCFreak, on 25 May 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

Totally in agreement. Not only on the standards thing, but also because of the variance even between TVs of the same model. I only wanted to mention it because it might explain why this or that TV may look better in stores, or like some have posted in regards to having home tested two different TVs and found one to be better than another, even though the shootout result say otherwise.

And as probably 95% of buyers aren't going to get their TVs professionally calibrated, this is something important to take into account when reading reviews (although some of them do talk about pre-calibration accuracy).

Serendigity, on 26 May 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

Well, I just took delivery of a Panasonic 50" Plasma TV and from what I have seen in a few hours of TV the vast range in the quality of what is broadcast, from very nice HD to fuzzy and woeful SD makes the bigger screen really show the shortcomings of terrestrial broadcast TV a lot of the time. Calibrated or not, top range or mid level or cheapie set, a lot depends on the quality of what you are trying to watch...

Can I ask what you paid for it? The best price I have been able to find so far, is $1389 but I'm hoping to do a lot better.

[pc9]

jliang70, on 26 May 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

If you want to improve the quality of SD/HD FTA try a dedicated PVR/Tuner run it through a video scaler, this is why people still keep their video processors because they can make SD stuff watchable on a large plasma or projector.

Excuse the ignorance - but what's a video scaler?  Do you mean a home theatre amp that upscales/upconvers the incoming signal to 1080p before it goes into the monitor, or is there some other device?

[Serendigity]

miata, on 26 May 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Can I ask what you paid for it? The best price I have been able to find so far, is $1389 but I'm hoping to do a lot better.

I got mine from Videopro.com.au  They have run out of stock at present.  I paid $1,434 for the set, free delivery, and an additional $179 to extend the warranty to 5 years.  To me this was better than the Dick Smith price when I factored in the warranty DSE offers. Sure it will be cheaper near Christmas, but I needed one now.

And as for video scalers, I must say using my 2007 model SD Topfield PVR and connecting via component cables, the displayed imagery from poorer quality source video is quite reasonable. I wonder if they are using the same circuitry to up-sample the composite video input and the inbuilt tuner received SD signals from live TV?  I have been watching recordings of the live stages of the Giro d'Italia cycling. Seems the Italians not only are just using SD gear, but some of the cameras are older 4:3 cameras being digitally zoomed to widescreen. The shots from the helicopter were woeful and to my eyes clearly appears to be digitally zoomed. Most of the Australian produced SD stuff I have looked at is reasonable - especially when it was shot using HD or modern widescreen SD gear. And those old TV shows from the 60s they keep repeating are standing the test of time because they were shot on film and thus can easily be broadcast on HD, albeit with original 4:3 shooting ratios to contend with.

[miata]

Serendigity, on 27 May 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

I got mine from Videopro.com.au  They have run out of stock at present.  I paid $1,434 for the set, free delivery, and an additional $179 to extend the warranty to 5 years.  To me this was better than the Dick Smith price when I factored in the warranty DSE offers. Sure it will be cheaper near Christmas, but I needed one now.

And as for video scalers, I must say using my 2007 model SD Topfield PVR and connecting via component cables, the displayed imagery from poorer quality source video is quite reasonable. I wonder if they are using the same circuitry to up-sample the composite video input and the inbuilt tuner received SD signals from live TV?  I have been watching recordings of the live stages of the Giro d'Italia cycling. Seems the Italians not only are just using SD gear, but some of the cameras are older 4:3 cameras being digitally zoomed to widescreen. The shots from the helicopter were woeful and to my eyes clearly appears to be digitally zoomed. Most of the Australian produced SD stuff I have looked at is reasonable - especially when it was shot using HD or modern widescreen SD gear. And those old TV shows from the 60s they keep repeating are standing the test of time because they were shot on film and thus can easily be broadcast on HD, albeit with original 4:3 shooting ratios to contend with.

Serendigity, on 27 May 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

I got mine from Videopro.com.au  They have run out of stock at present.  I paid $1,434 for the set, free delivery, and an additional $179 to extend the warranty to 5 years.  To me this was better than the Dick Smith price when I factored in the warranty DSE offers. Sure it will be cheaper near Christmas, but I needed one now.

And as for video scalers, I must say using my 2007 model SD Topfield PVR and connecting via component cables, the displayed imagery from poorer quality source video is quite reasonable. I wonder if they are using the same circuitry to up-sample the composite video input and the inbuilt tuner received SD signals from live TV?  I have been watching recordings of the live stages of the Giro d'Italia cycling. Seems the Italians not only are just using SD gear, but some of the cameras are older 4:3 cameras being digitally zoomed to widescreen. The shots from the helicopter were woeful and to my eyes clearly appears to be digitally zoomed. Most of the Australian produced SD stuff I have looked at is reasonable - especially when it was shot using HD or modern widescreen SD gear. And those old TV shows from the 60s they keep repeating are standing the test of time because they were shot on film and thus can easily be broadcast on HD, albeit with original 4:3 shooting ratios to contend with.

Thank you for the price, looks like $1430 ish (delivered) is about as low as possible at the moment, I'm hoping to get one before the Olympics, so just maybe they'll drop a little by then.

[HTPCFreak]

The video processing on the E8000 seems to be pretty good, haven't really found any content that I felt looked "bad", taking the source material into account of course. And I'm talking about stuff like old Foxtel recordings of a few 90's TV shows on my DVD/HDD recorder (from pre IQ days - originally recorded via S-Video from the Foxtel box) that is currently connected to the E8000 via component.

My old C7000 may have been just a little bit better at dealing with low quality SD material though, but not a huge difference in my opinion (motion fluidity seems a bit better on the new TV, this is compared to motion interpolation off on the C7000 - the E8000 doesn't have motion interpolation, which is fine, as I don't like it at all).

This may be something you just have to get used to, especially if you're coming from a smaller sized TV where the flaws were not as noticeable.