15 replies to this topic

[Irena]

I've just seen an advert for an iPod dock with radio (S-Digital Ergo iPod/iPhone Speaker Dock Sound System with Radio Tuner, Alarm Clock & MORE for Just $99! from Spreets).
Don't want to buy it if the radio is not digital (called DAB, correct?).
Looked up wiki on PLL but don't really understand what I'm reading. My feeling is that this Ergo system does NOT have a digital radio built in. Am I correct? Will I be stuck with a radio that won't work once we go digital?
Thanks for any advice.
Blondie.

[GlennP]

Irena, on 13 May 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

I've just seen an advert for an iPod dock with radio (S-Digital Ergo iPod/iPhone Speaker Dock Sound System with Radio Tuner, Alarm Clock & MORE for Just $99! from Spreets).
Don't want to buy it if the radio is not digital (called DAB, correct?).
Looked up wiki on PLL but don't really understand what I'm reading. My feeling is that this Ergo system does NOT have a digital radio built in. Am I correct? Will I be stuck with a radio that won't work once we go digital?
Thanks for any advice.
Blondie.

Hi Irena,

No this system doesn't have a DAB+ digital radio. It's an analogue tuner with a digital readout, & push button control, not the old twist knob & needle dial. The PLL is Phase Locked Loop, it's an electronic circuit in the tuner that locks onto the analogue signals frequency to prevent drifting off the station.

Don't worry about buying it without a DAB+ digital radio tuner, AM & FM radio isn't going anywhere soon, definitly not in the next 5 years, most likely not even in the next 10 years. If you purchase that now, it will be dead & decaying in the garbage dump, long before AM & FM radio is turned off.

[Irena]

GlennP, on 13 May 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

Hi Irena,

No this system doesn't have a DAB+ digital radio. It's an analogue tuner with a digital readout, & push button control, not the old twist knob & needle dial. The PLL is Phase Locked Loop, it's an electronic circuit in the tuner that locks onto the analogue signals frequency to prevent drifting off the station.

Don't worry about buying it without a DAB+ digital radio tuner, AM & FM radio isn't going anywhere soon, definitly not in the next 5 years, most likely not even in the next 10 years. If you purchase that now, it will be dead & decaying in the garbage dump, long before AM & FM radio is turned off.

Thank you - and I didn't know that about not going digital soon. I thought it was a given, soon. Don't like digital; it's "all or nothing". At least with analog you get something, even if it's not clear, radio or TV. But that's just the rantings of an old blonde sheila ;-)

[nbound]

If your not in a capital city you wouldnt get much on a digital radio yet anyway. (And Darwin/Canberra are still only operating as a trial). There is another technology called DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) which they may use aswell in future, which is also digital but is transmitted in the AM radio bands.

We dont even know if they will fully phase out AM/FM yet either (could be useful in emergency situations, etc.)

[alanh]

Nbound,
DRM can not only be in the AM band but also where TV channels 0 - 2 and FM bands, its called DRM+ and it is also being used in the Short Wave bands. Radio Australia is going to expand their transmissions in August this year.

AlanH

[nbound]

alanh, on 14 May 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

Nbound,
DRM can not only be in the AM band but also where TV channels 0 - 2 and FM bands, its called DRM+ and it is also being used in the Short Wave bands. Radio Australia is going to expand their transmissions in August this year.

AlanH

I am aware of this, but the OP doesn't need all the technical details.

[alanh]

Nbound,
It was aimed at you not Irene. If DRM is selected for regional areas it is likely to be DRM+ with DRM30 for remote areas. If this is the case then DRM+ could easily be used for the community broadcasters in capital cities which only serve parts of a city.
DRM+ could easily be a preferable replacement to FM radio where there are not large numbers of stations covering a single licence area.

AlanH

[Malich]

So, alanh, basically what you're saying is that IF something happens, it MAY happen this way. IF IT DOES, then something else COULD happen for certain minor examples. IF SO, then something else MIGHT be used for those cases.

Once again, you're simply guessing about things which haven't been decided at any level, assuming that a certain option will be chosen, and from that extrapolating what might be used for minor edge-cases. None of which has anything to do with the OPs question or nbound's response.

Just because a thread mentions one of your hobbyhorse subjects doesn't meant you are bound to comment in it*. If you must, put your opinion in O/T where it belongs.

(* Yes, I see the irony...)

[GoForMoe]

I do think the DAB vs PLL confusion will catch a lot of people out. I'm sure a lot of people think the latter is a 'digital' radio and some are even sold as such.

Edited by GoForMoe, 15 May 2012 - 10:26 AM.

[Irena]

Boys, no need to get feathers ruffled. Thanks for all the input - understand now. And I don't mind additional commentary; all helps with the learning. I think I was assuming that radio would go the same as TV, but that appears not to be the case.

Good to know also as my car radio/cassette (yes, I'm driving an old dinosaur) packed up (well, the cassette player did) and I thought I might as well replace with a digital, but now I won't. They're quite expensive and I'll probably upgrade the car before the replacement system dies. I'll post another question in relation to that. Cheers.

[Malich]

GoForMoe, on 15 May 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

I do think the DAB vs PLL confusion will catch a lot of people out. I'm sure a lot of people think the latter is a 'digital' radio and some are even sold as such.

Actually, I think it's worse than that. For the last 20 years, radios with 7 segment displays have been sold as "digital radios", despite being completely analogue on the radio side (digital PLLs excepted). Now people are expected to understand that yes, their radio might be "digital", but it's not digital, because that's a different "digital" altogether. It might be a misnomer, but the yanks had the right idea when they decided to call their system "HD Radio"; it certainly saves confusion...

A brand name of "S-Digital" just adds to the confusion, as demonstrated by Irena's question. As did alanh's jumping in to add detail that may or may not be irrelevant in the future, but is certainly totally irrelevant here and now.

Irena, alanh probably has a good heart, may once have a been good educator on TV & radio matters, and quite possibly posts in good faith with the honest intent of helping people. But somewhere along the line he's lost the plot, and now spends most of his time on this forum flipping between being completely wrong, refusing to believe that he's completely wrong when reality contradicts him, acting like his favourite technology choices are the only possible choice when the truth is the future is uncertain, and dropping strange non sequiturs around the place in order to confuse and distract people. All of those behaviours are evident in just the 2 comments he's made in this thread.

Quite frankly nobody should take any notice of anything he posts, unless they already know or can independently confirm that he's right. Which is why a lot of us in these forums will jump in and call him out when he's misleading or confusing people.

[Irena]

Thanks for the explanation and the mirth, GoForMoe.

[george89]

Hi,

The PLL will automatically adjust the shift phase of the signal. It is one of the features of digital radio.

Thanks

[nbound]

This is an ancient thread, but the OP wanted to know if the radio was a digital radio (ie. DAB+ compatible), which it is not. See Malich's post #11

Edited by nbound, 17 November 2012 - 11:07 AM.

[alanh]

George,
a Phase Locked Loop is not a feature of digital radio specifically. PLL is usually advertised for FM receivers to indicate that they will automatically readjust to keep the tuning on the station. So this can be used in any good quality radio from AM, through SW to FM and digital radios.

AlanH

[MLXXX]

nbound, on 13 May 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

If your not in a capital city you wouldnt get much on a digital radio yet anyway. (And Darwin/Canberra are still only operating as a trial). There is another technology called DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) which they may use aswell in future, which is also digital but is transmitted in the AM radio bands.

alanh, on 14 May 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

Nbound,
DRM can not only be in the AM band but also where TV channels 0 - 2 and FM bands, its called DRM+ and it is also being used in the Short Wave bands.

I note that since early decades of the 20th century, in the context of radio broadcasting, a reference to the AM bands has encompassed medium wave, short wave, and (where applicable) long wave.  

In Australia if you wish to refer only to the medium frequency AM band, one way is to call it "the AM broadcast band".

alanh, on 17 November 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

George,
a Phase Locked Loop is not a feature of digital radio specifically. PLL is usually advertised for FM receivers to indicate that they will automatically readjust to keep the tuning on the station. So this can be used in any good quality radio from AM, through SW to FM and digital radios.

I note that a common use of PLL these days for FM is to use it as a detector of the audio modulation.  The phase locked loop tracks the instantaneous excursions of the carrier frequency above and below the centre carrier frequency.  (If it is a stereo transmission, the excursions will be quite rapid, as the modulation will include use of a 38KHz sub-carrier for the stereo difference signal.)

I note that a broader use of PLL in radios is to assist in frequency synthesis in receivers that convert the incoming RF to an intermediate frequency, e.g. to help ensure a stable and accurate local oscillator frequency at 9KHz increments for receiving transmissions in the medium frequency AM band.