136 replies to this topic

[youngm]

Hi all,

Just in the process of planning a home reno and looking at re-doing the existing 'formal dining room' into a Home Theatre room.  I feel we'll make much better use out of this room as a HT room as we rarely use the formal dining room anyway.  The wife tends to agree.. luckily!

The room is 4.5m deep x 3.84m wide.

I'm planning to rip up the existing tiles, lay dark brown carpet, and paint the walls dark chocolate brown, and the ceiling a flat matte black.  I'll also install a powered roller shutter to block out the window when watching movies.

I'm considering the JVC DLA-X30 PJ with a 120" scope screen.  I'll be using the JVC's lense memory function to zoom out for 2.39:1 scope content, and zoom in for normal 16:9 content.

I ran some calculations on the Projector Central website and it shows that I should be able to get 16fL brightness on a 120" scope screen at 4.0m throw with this PJ.

Can anyone confirm that these numbers are accurate for me please?

I'm trying to go with the biggest scope screen/image I can with the limited throw distance of approx 4.0m.  The PJ will be ceiling mounted at the very rear of the room as close as possible to the wall.

Advice/suggestions greatly appreciated.

[bbar]

The number looks a bit pessimistic though depends on what screen gain you will have.

If oztheatre 1.26 gain screen then should be more I would have thought?

Try this site and use the RS45 as it is the USA version of X30 - http://www.eliteproj...calculator.com/

With a 1.26 gain screen you should get 23FL new according to this site.

23fl new would give 11.5 at lamp EOL which is just below recommendation. 12-16 is recommendation and I am happy with 14 in light controlled room. Basically you can just about get full Lamp use so appears an excellent combination given you are going with a 1.26 gain screen.

Edited by bbar, 10 April 2012 - 05:19 PM.

[Owen]

No projector I am aware of delivers the manufactures specified light output when the projector is calibrated for accurate colour, 60% of spec is a generous expectation so work on 50% with a few hundred hours use. Therefore projector "calculators" need to have their predictions downgraded by about 40% or more to be accurate with a calibrated projector.
JVC are actually more honest than most when it comes to light output, but with a 120" screen (with 1.3 gain) and a 4 metre throw distance the X30 will provide about 10fl with a new lamp on full power when run in.
Contrary to popular belief thats plenty, I have an X3 with over over 500 hours projected onto a 100" screen with a gain of 1.0 (same as a 130" screen with a gain of 1.3) with a 4.1 metre throw. I still use low lamp power and have the iris closed down half way and dont feel the need for a brighter image even though I would be lucky to have 6fl on screen. The picture quality is much better than anything I have seen in a commercial cinema.

If yo want a really bright image you will need to consider a high gain screen in the 2.4 to 2.8 range.

[youngm]

Thanks for your advice guys.

Curious, where can I get a higher gain screen in the 2.4-2.8 range?

Are these screens significantly more expensive that the 1.3 gain screens?

I Must admit, I do like a lot of "pop" to my images and prefer a bright and sharp picture.  I also plan to utilise the 3D capabilities.

[Owen]

There is a wide range in price for 1.3 gain screens, with a cheap fixed screen for less than $1500 to a high end brand name motorized tap tensioned model going for over $5k.
The very high gain screens are specialized products and do tend to be more expensive, especially in Oz where local importers want huge mark ups. I expect prices for a 120" to start at about $4k for a basic fixed model and go up from there.

DNP and Screen Innovations are two brands that come to mind but there are others.

A brighter projector is another option but they dont have the contrast of the JVC's so you really need to find out how much brightness is enough for your use and preferance.

For 3D a cheap DLP is the go, keep the good projector like the X30 for 2D viewing. No single projector will do as good a job.

Edited by Owen, 11 April 2012 - 10:59 AM.

[oztheatre]

youngm, on 10 April 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Hi all,

Just in the process of planning a home reno and looking at re-doing the existing 'formal dining room' into a Home Theatre room.  I feel we'll make much better use out of this room as a HT room as we rarely use the formal dining room anyway.  The wife tends to agree.. luckily!

The room is 4.5m deep x 3.84m wide.

I'm planning to rip up the existing tiles, lay dark brown carpet, and paint the walls dark chocolate brown, and the ceiling a flat matte black.  I'll also install a powered roller shutter to block out the window when watching movies.

I'm considering the JVC DLA-X30 PJ with a 120" scope screen.  I'll be using the JVC's lense memory function to zoom out for 2.39:1 scope content, and zoom in for normal 16:9 content.

I ran some calculations on the Projector Central website and it shows that I should be able to get 16fL brightness on a 120" scope screen at 4.0m throw with this PJ.

Can anyone confirm that these numbers are accurate for me please?

I'm trying to go with the biggest scope screen/image I can with the limited throw distance of approx 4.0m.  The PJ will be ceiling mounted at the very rear of the room as close as possible to the wall.

Advice/suggestions greatly appreciated.

You'll be fine at 120 scope zoomed. I have a 140 scope zoomed with the X70 on normal lamp mode and it's more than bright enough.
Wouldn't worry too much about the spreadsheets and online calculators.. They're just there to confuse you

Ok just checked. Room of 4500 long, projector 470 long, allow 100mm at the back for cable curl and some air flow, leaves you with 3.93 metres from projectors lens to screen.
At max zoom you can get maximum image width of 2800 which is just short of a 120 scope screen. Now given that you would push the soft edge onto the velvet frame by say 20mm each side, leaves an active image width of 2760 at full zoom... So i'd say 115-118 scope will be the only doable size based on 3.93 throw.

If you push it back to leave 50mm at the back, you could just go 120 scope with a 2840 wide image at full zoom. Best to be safe and go around the 115.

Better still, set it up and put the screen in last after you know what will work.

[bbar]

Good pickup Rich re throw and room length. 115" would be the go and the X30 would be perfect.

[youngm]

oztheatre, on 11 April 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

You'll be fine at 120 scope zoomed. I have a 140 scope zoomed with the X70 on normal lamp mode and it's more than bright enough. Wouldn't worry too much about the spreadsheets and online calculators.. They're just there to confuse you Ok just checked. Room of 4500 long, projector 470 long, allow 100mm at the back for cable curl and some air flow, leaves you with 3.93 metres from projectors lens to screen. At max zoom you can get maximum image width of 2800 which is just short of a 120 scope screen. Now given that you would push the soft edge onto the velvet frame by say 20mm each side, leaves an active image width of 2760 at full zoom... So i'd say 115-118 scope will be the only doable size based on 3.93 throw. If you push it back to leave 50mm at the back, you could just go 120 scope with a 2840 wide image at full zoom. Best to be safe and go around the 115. Better still, set it up and put the screen in last after you know what will work.

Awesome advice!   Thanks!  So I guess 115" scope it is then.

I can't afford $4k+ on a higher gain screen.  I think I'll stick with a 1.3 gain Majestic EVO 3D.

It will be a darkened room, so I'm hoping the image will have plenty of "pop", so to speak.

Any advice on black ceiling paint?  I want it as black and non-reflective as possible.

[oztheatre]

youngm, on 11 April 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Awesome advice!   Thanks!  So I guess 115" scope it is then.

I can't afford $4k+ on a higher gain screen.  I think I'll stick with a 1.3 gain Majestic EVO 3D.

It will be a darkened room, so I'm hoping the image will have plenty of "pop", so to speak.

Any advice on black ceiling paint?  I want it as black and non-reflective as possible.

You want Rosco's black velvet scenic paint.

For those who want to order this paint, here are his details. It's $90 for a gallon, which is 3.78 litres.

It is called Supersaturated Roscopaint and the colour is Black Velvet #6003.
Adam P. Smith
Rosco Australia Pty Limited
42 Sawyer Lane, Artarmon NSW 2064
+61 (0) 2 9906-6262

[Serentity]

Our painter used Matt black paint (Cant rem the paint code) for the whole HT room, I think we got 3 coats on the Wall.
Looks Great.

[youngm]

oztheatre, on 11 April 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

You want Rosco's black velvet scenic paint.

For those who want to order this paint, here are his details. It's $90 for a gallon, which is 3.78 litres.

It is called Supersaturated Roscopaint and the colour is Black Velvet #6003.
Adam P. Smith
Rosco Australia Pty Limited
42 Sawyer Lane, Artarmon NSW 2064
+61 (0) 2 9906-6262

Sweet!  Thanks for that!  I'll make contact with Adam to see how much I'd need for ~17.5sqm of ceiling surface.

Do you guys also recommend painting the wall where the screen is located velvet black too?

I think it'd look funny having 3 walls chocolate brown and one wall velvet black?!

[bbar]

youngm, on 11 April 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

Sweet!  Thanks for that!  I'll make contact with Adam to see how much I'd need for ~17.5sqm of ceiling surface.

Do you guys also recommend painting the wall where the screen is located velvet black too?

I think it'd look funny having 3 walls chocolate brown and one wall velvet black?!

I was thinking the exact same thing as am going the same colour scheme as you.  Have not decided yet. You go first and let me know what you think.  I guess I am thinking there should not be a significant difference in reflections with front wall dark brown versus black, but I will be zooming the black bars on the wall so .....oh,  let me know what you do

Also, let me know which brown you end up with. Currently I am leaning toward Dulux Jarrah and Wheatmeal for arcs and skirts http://m.dulux.com.a...s/251851/jarrah

Edited by bbar, 11 April 2012 - 05:34 PM.

[youngm]

bbar, on 11 April 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

I was thinking the exact same thing as am going the same colour scheme as you.  Have not decided yet. You go first and let me know what you think.  I guess I am thinking there should not be a significant difference in reflections with front wall dark brown versus black, but I will be zooming the black bars on the wall so .....oh,  let me know what you do

Also, let me know which brown you end up with. Currently I am leaning toward Dulux Jarrah and Wheatmeal for arcs and skirts http://m.dulux.com.a...s/251851/jarrah

I haven't actually looked at any color charts as yet, but will be going darkest brown I can... maybe even do all four walls a textured matte velvet effect?

Carpet will be a dark brown too.

BTW, just slightly off topic, this formal dining room is downstairs (double storey home) and obviously needs to be wired for this setup.  Any idea how I'm going to get the wiring in place for this setup?  Please don't tell me I have to remove the plaster walls and ceiling to wire all the speaker and HDMI cables and have it all re-plastered again?

[:)]

youngm, on 11 April 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

I haven't actually looked at any color charts as yet, but will be going darkest brown I can... maybe even do all four walls a textured matte velvet effect?

Carpet will be a dark brown too.

BTW, just slightly off topic, this formal dining room is downstairs (double storey home) and obviously needs to be wired for this setup.  Any idea how I'm going to get the wiring in place for this setup?  Please don't tell me I have to remove the plaster walls and ceiling to wire all the speaker and HDMI cables and have it all re-plastered again?

any decent electrician can run cables in wall, as long as you have your typical stud plaster wall arrangement this can be done post build, dont have to remove plaster. if your house is not on a slab can also run cables under the house and up/down inside walls. its what I have done in my setup. re hdmi wireless hdmi is extremely effective. I used wireless hdmi for a while with the system that came with my epson and it works. for people renting and where running hdmi cable might be an impossible task it possibly is their only possible solution

[youngm]

:), on 11 April 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

any decent electrician can run cables in wall, as long as you have your typical stud plaster wall arrangement this can be done post build, dont have to remove plaster. if your house is not on a slab can also run cables under the house and up/down inside walls. its what I have done in my setup. re hdmi wireless hdmi is extremely effective. I used wireless hdmi for a while with the system that came with my epson and it works. for people renting and where running hdmi cable might be an impossible task it possibly is their only possible solution

Wireless HDMI?!  WOW, I never knew that existed!  I'll need to look into that one... wondering whether it can do HDMI 1.4a for streaming 3D content?

Yeah the house is on a concrete slab

There are only two downlights in this room, so I assume there's a small ceiling cavity where the Electrician can run a snake through and across the ceiling

Any of you guys seen this "tape wire" for speaker installs?  It's apparently very thin and can be run underneath carpets without any visibility.  Since the room is going to be carpeted, might look into running this "tape wire" under the carpet. It's suppose to have a white, paintable adhesive backing, so you can run it along the room's skirting boards and then you can paint over it.  Looks like a viable solution.  Here's a link FYI:

http://www.21st-cent...-Foot-Roll.html

Edited by youngm, 12 April 2012 - 08:44 AM.

[:)]

My only experience is been with the wireless hdmi on the epsons and yes they pass full hd 3D the lot no probs.

Can use under carpet, on wall with those cables yes. Have seen them used no probs. also there are skirting boards don't forget can use those to run cables behind as well to get around the room. Suggest talk to an installer from any of the specialist stores if unsure these things. Yours I doubt an unusual situation and they've usually got more than one way getting this kind thing done

[mr-happy-pants]

youngm, on 11 April 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

Sweet!  Thanks for that!  I'll make contact with Adam to see how much I'd need for ~17.5sqm of ceiling surface.

Do you guys also recommend painting the wall where the screen is located velvet black too?

I think it'd look funny having 3 walls chocolate brown and one wall velvet black?!

Interesting point.

Even though my room upgrade is still some time away (raising funds as we speak), I have been seriously thinking of black carpet (short pile) over softboard/caneite for the front wall of my HT.

[youngm]

mr-happy-pants, on 12 April 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

Interesting point. Even though my room upgrade is still some time away (raising funds as we speak), I have been seriously thinking of black carpet (short pile) over softboard/caneite for the front wall of my HT.

Interesting option.  Better sound proofing too I guess.

[youngm]

BTW, I just checked out the specs on the Epson EH-TW9000W 3D LCD projector and it looks rather tempting also, especially with the WirelessHD feature.

2400 lumens, 200,000:1 C/R!  Specs look better than the JVC DLA-X30, and is cheaper too

Any feedback about this PJ?

[:)]

youngm, on 12 April 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

BTW, I just checked out the specs on the Epson EH-TW9000W 3D LCD projector and it looks rather tempting also, especially with the WirelessHD feature.

2400 lumens, 200,000:1 C/R!  Specs look better than the JVC DLA-X30, and is cheaper too

Any feedback about this PJ?

am very happy with mine, theres a whole owners thread of feedback here if want to have a read,

http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=96575

have posted quite a few screen shots as well myself so can get a bit of a feel of what its capable off

[bbar]

youngm, on 12 April 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

BTW, I just checked out the specs on the Epson EH-TW9000W 3D LCD projector and it looks rather tempting also, especially with the WirelessHD feature.

2400 lumens, 200,000:1 C/R!  Specs look better than the JVC DLA-X30, and is cheaper too

Any feedback about this PJ?

Great PJ.  You will need an A-lens if you want to go scope as it does not have powered lens shift and  focus.

[oztheatre]

youngm, on 12 April 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

BTW, I just checked out the specs on the Epson EH-TW9000W 3D LCD projector and it looks rather tempting also, especially with the WirelessHD feature.

2400 lumens, 200,000:1 C/R!  Specs look better than the JVC DLA-X30, and is cheaper too

Any feedback about this PJ?

The specs can be misleading. Epson measure on/off contrast which means they measure a black screen only, then a white field only and take a measurement between the two.
JVC measure native contrast with both black and white on screen at the same time.

The JVC should have better native contrast and better ansi contrast also.

[Owen]

youngm, on 12 April 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

BTW, I just checked out the specs on the Epson EH-TW9000W 3D LCD projector and it looks rather tempting also, especially with the WirelessHD feature.

2400 lumens, 200,000:1 C/R!  Specs look better than the JVC DLA-X30, and is cheaper too

Any feedback about this PJ?

Manufactures specs are typically way off, especially for contrast ratio and light output, so should be ignored.

Under test the Epson delivers about 800 lumens (new lamp) with calibrated colour, and between approx 3,500 and 6,500:1 native contrast depending on lens zoom setting.
The Epson uses a dynamic iris to give better contrast numbers in simple on/off tests but this has no effect on in scene contrast, e.g. when actually viewing real video content not all black or all white screens as used for on/off contrast testing.

The JVC delivers about 700 lumens (new lamp) with accurate colour, and between approx 17,000 and 50,000:1 native contrast depending on iris and zoom setting.

So, the Epson is a little brighter than the JVC when both are calibrated but not by a significant margin. Both projectors will give greater output with inaccurate colour and in the brightest mode (with very inaccurate colour) the Epson is very bright and lot brighter than the JVC.
Light output will drop off as the lamps age and this drop off is likely to be greater with the JVC which means the JVC's lamp will need to be replaced more often to maintain brightness. Its the price you pay for high native contrast and deep in scene blacks.

The JVC has power lens zoom and shift with memory so no A-lens is required,

Edited by Owen, 12 April 2012 - 02:37 PM.

[:)]

bbar, on 12 April 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Great PJ.  You will need an A-lens if you want to go scope as it does not have powered lens shift and  focus.

Yep definitely. Vierra4 is running his that way and mark techer has an epson in his avatar with scope lens attached. Epson comes with the modes necessary to use scope lens. Alternatively can also do what others of us do, run a 16:9 screen and does both aspects including scope which it does great without need of lens or fiddling around with memories and settings on the pj. Just depends which prefer I guess

[mmu16]

A lens is an expensive option IMO when you consider both the X30 and Pana7000 both do lens shift. Might as well get a X70 for the total price (epson 9000 + A lens) and wobbulate your way to a super sharp scope image, free of screen door. Is your house a 2 storey? If so you might have issues with running an HDMI cable through the roof but I would still recommend powered lens shift for ultimate versatility (also, having an A lens assembly might affect your PJ positioning since you are pushing for distance against the back wall).  I have seen some new flat HDMI cables sold by cable connection that will be easier to hide under the carpet/along the wall edge. Colour wise, I used a dulux choc brown flat/low sheen paint on the roof and projection wall and it performs very well. Cant see any difference between dark choc brown and black as far as PQ/light bounce is concerned (mine was black before and the wife didn't like it...).