26 replies to this topic

[Mckie1]

Looking at getting one of these behemoths and just wanted to see how others have set theirs up connection-wise? Will use msc-4000 muse decoder and rfd-1 ac-3 decoder. Any feedback greatly appreciated.

[dyates69]

Nice player! I'm assuming these are still megabucks. I'd have one just for the way it would look in my system.

[Mckie1]

Yes, unfortunately still expensive for player plus titles and muse decoder. Wanting to see best cables/connections/etc for combo. Guessing bnc composite for std video and component for muse titles. Coax for sound and analogue for muse. Just so many connections at once for all options. Shipping is the real killer

[tomrlee_m998]

I am lucky enough to have this monster in my rack. Yes, heaps of connection you can take care of.

Currently, I am using MSC-4000 for MUSE decoding plus a Lumagen HDQ for video processing.

Due to space constraint, I have not hooked it up with a rf demodulator but I have some in stock and ready to use.

If you need any more info, just let me know.

[Mckie1]

Thanks for the feedback. I hope to have my 40kg monster towards the end of the month. Pioneer is currently givIng it the once over in Japan.

I was thinking of using the bnc connection to composite on my receiver via 75ohm cable/interconnects. Also using the coax. for the audio as I cannot find anything that will accept (for a reasonable price) the a/t&t straight-tip glass optical connection component and analogue out for muse decoder. As mentioned above ac-3 by way of rfd-1. Way too many connections. Also composite audio. Argh!

[tomrlee_m998]

You are welcome indeed. Actually, I do not feel alone any more since there will be one more HLD-X0 owner in Australia.

But, I am confused when you said Pioneer is giving it once over in Japan, do they sell them now or...give?

Regarding the connection, you can start from digital coaxial then ST glass. As far as I know, some high end DACs are fitted with ST type input as exclusive feature, EAD 9000, for instance.

Video part, as you already knew, the BNC transports the purest analog signal when it comes to NTSC LD playback. I do not recommend a BNC to RCA  converter anywhere within the signal path as it may introduce some noise when exposed to your RF singal processing.

So far that is all I can think of. Keep me posted along your journey to tame this monster

[Mckie1]

I'm also glad there is at least another one of these beasts around. From what I've been told the guy actually takes it to either Pioneer Japan or an authorised rep. to give it the once over.

I have been trying to work out whether to use bnc to bnc cable with rca adapter or cable with bnc one end and rca the other. Not many receivers have composite with bnc.

Will have a look at your suggestion regarding the st glass optical as I have read it is far superior to both coax and toslink?

Now just to save up for some muse/hi-vision ld's

Thanks again.

[tomrlee_m998]

Not a problem.

Very few receivers are fitted with BNC connectors for composite video, as far as I know. If you would like to take much care of it, a video processor could be considered at this stage.

Hi Vision titles never come cheap even nowadays. So, do not miss out.

Cheers

[Mckie1]

Have managed to pick up about a dozen for a reasonable price but so many of them now are in excess of $300 or $400 for one disc! Also just heard back and Pioneer Japan have just about finished the player's service. House only a couple of months away so will be able to test all shortly. Thanks again

[KEF Ci2000]

Massive player but is this a bit overkill.....found while searching your player

http://outhouserag.t...02/11/6mm1.jpeg

http://outhouserag.t...lion-dolla.html

Edited by KEF Ci2000, 29 August 2012 - 06:39 AM.

[dokworm]

I am currently trialling a whole bunch of processors with different comb filters for my X9, didn't know there were any X0 owners in Australia. I've been looking for one to transfer some laserdiscs.

[Mckie1]

Would be good to get your feedback on the processors, as we plan on just using either the built in one from either the Onkyo receiver or the Sony PJ we will get shortly. The player will be shipped from Japan in the next few days. Ridiculously heavy and expensive for shipping I might add. Probably similar for your X9. Looking forward to testing standard LD's and some Hi-Vision/MUSE discs in comparison to our DVD's/HD-DVD's/BD's. Keep us informed of how the testing goes.

[dokworm]

Ok, well the winner by far is the Crystalio II processor. Best comb filter and really made the video shine. It appears the Ti 5160 chip is the best comb filter going, I trialled an insane amount of various options. It outperformed the DVDO Edge Green and the Lumagen Radiance as far as the X9 was concerned. Can't say with an X0 unless someone wants to lend me theirs.
2nd best was running it through a Pioneer DVR LX70D player, composite-in to the DVR, SVideo out. It gave a very clean, dot-crawl free image.

I'd be happy to lend anyone in Australia the Crystalio to try with their X0 once I'm finished doing my capture run.

[Mckie1]

The beast arrived yesterday. Nearly broke my back carrying the damn thing. Hope to set it up in the coming weeks.

Dokworm if you are in Melbourne it would definitely be great to test the Crystallio II as that would give me a reason to keep trying to source a VPS3800!

[dokworm]

I wish I was in Melbourne, I'd love to check out the beast. You may have to reinforce your equipment rack
I am happy to loan you the crystalio though, I can always just post it down for you to have a play with.
I have an older Lumagen HDP as well.

[Mckie1]

Yeah I'm not quite sure the best way to store it. Was thinking middle atlantic rack but probably overkill for our small HT. we haven't even bought the PJ or screen yet

Maybe in the New Year when all sorted I'll drop you a line about the crystalio. You'll have to come with it as you hardly know me and I'd hate for anything to happen to it. Can talk about this in 2013.

I am about to send the box back to Japan as a swap for a muse decoder and some hi-vision discs. Yes I have been advised that even the box is worth $1k. Go figure.

[coffeecupman]

Hi guys!

I joined this forum today to get involved with this topic.

I own an X-9, and I am shamefully ignorant about how to get the best out of it.  For years I had it connected to a Panasonic 34" widescreen TV which had an S-video input, and it just looked great, I didn't feel I had to mess with it.

I recently upgraded my television to a 55" Samsung 120Hz 1080p LED.  Last break I tried to hook the X-9 up to it, and I noticed, rather annoyingly, that the new TV doesn't have an S-Video input for legacy devices.  I don't even think it had a composite input.  It has a wire harness that has an end that looks like a headphone jack that you plug into the back of the TV, and the harness has a composite socket on it.

I connected the composite out of the X-9 to the composite socket on the harness, and it looks like CRAP.  I was a little shocked, and, of course, annoyed.

So what I am reading on the internet is that now that I have bought this new TV, apparently I now have the privilege of requiring an expensive upscaler so that I can have my laserdiscs look decent on it.

From what I've read around the forums, I can see the Crystalio II seems to be the best choice for a laserdisc player, so I'm going on the hunt for one.  I also have a good JVC VHS player that I will want to input to this television as well.  

I have some questions about the use of the Crystalio II with the X-9, but first, I want to get some clarification on the MUSE system.

I never had any MUSE titles, and I don't really think I'm going to.  I bought the laserdisc player because there was content on laserdisc that I couldn't get on DVD (or now, blu-ray).  None of the MUSE titles seem to be unavailable in DVD or Blu.  

As such, I never looked into a MUSE decoder.  But reading some of the above comments has me wondering:

When you have a MUSE decoder hooked up, does that mean even your standard LDs output their picture and audio through the MUSE decoder chain?  What I mean is, do you use the standard outputs for regular movies, and the MUSE decoder outputs for MUSE material only?

If it all goes through the MUSE decoder, then what does a MUSE decoder do for standard LDs?  Anything?  I have heard something about how some LDs have digital soundtracks and others have analog audio.  Does a MUSE decoder let you choose the digital or the analog soundtrack?  Honestly, it's a real mess trying to learn how to get the best out of these things!  

I will not want to use surround sound, since I hate DTS (I would much rather hear two channels in CD quality than five in MP3 quality).  

Mckie1 caught my eye when he said his MUSE decoder has an AT+T Optical ST out, because I run an EMM Labs DAC, which accepts ST and I am certain would do a better job at D/A conversion than whatever is inside the X-9, good though it probably is.

So would a MUSE decoder allow me to choose the digital or analog output of a standard disc (provided of course it wasn't an all-analog soundtrack)?.  I am working on a ship right now and I can't look at the back of my X-9, but I don't remember seeing any other audio output than an analog set.  It would be cool to be able to bypass the internal DAC and use a superior outboard one.

Regarding the Crystalio II, the literature says that it will accept S-Video input, but when I look at the pictures of the back of the unit I can't see any S-Video jacks.  How does that work?  I see composite inputs, but I was always taught that S-Video was a superior data transmission format to composite, so I would definitely want to use the S output to transmit the video data to the Crystalio, right?  Does the Crystalio require an adapter of some sort to input S-Video?  

I can see from pictures that the X-0 users have a BNC video output, which people seem to prefer to S-Video.  Isn't that just composite with a different connector style?  If this is better than S-video, should I hot rod my X-9 and swap the RCA socket out with a premium BNC?

OK, so that was lots of questions.  Sorry about that, but really, when you're playing at this level, there isn't very much access to good information.  I am VERY excited about some dialogue on these issues!

All the best,
ccm

[Mckie1]

I'm no expert as only just received our X0 but I believe only the hi-vision/muse discs output through the muse connection and not std LD's?

These are then sent out from the muse decoder as component and digital audio.

I think you still have to connect the analog and digital audio connections plus the composite or s-video ones for std LD's?

As for the BNC, I have read that the reason it is preferred is that it doesn't do any conversions prior to output. That is LD's are solely composite anyway so the s-video output just splits the Y/C but then re-combines it for the composite outputs.

Again no expert, just letting you know what I have read, whether it is correct or not.

They do say the X9 has the best s-video output but as you have found out most new tv's don't have the input.

Trying different upscalers may work but again it would be taking the recombined composite or s-video signal and some devices would do better than others.

Also on the hunt for a crystallio but damn hard to find one.

Hope my tidbits have helped in some way.

We are looking forward to playing some hi-vision/muse discs over the Christmas break to compare with BD, HD-DVD, DVD, etc.

[coffeecupman]

Thanks Mckie1.  

That's a good start, in that I learned that I won't need a MUSE decoder.  

I need to hear from dokworm, who has the same X-9 that I do, with the same outputs.  I can't remember there being a digital audio out on mine, but probably there is.

For the record, after researching around this morning I found some info on the Thadlabs website that says the X-0 and X-9 do not recombine Y/C separated signal into composite.  I quote:


Except the HLD-X9 and the HLD-X0, the composite signal is not Y/C separated
and recombined in these two players.  After the field buffer, the signal
data path is divided into two, one is Y/C separated one is not.  The HLD-X9
even has a 3D motion adaptive Y/C separation filter with three different
selectable algorithms, for its Y/C data path.

This is encouraging, and sheds some light on why the pairing with the Crystalio II has big potential, even with the non-BNC RCA composite out of the X-9.

From some of the captures I have seen today (but the links I have lost, unfortunately), the X-0 has a better output picture through the S than the X-9.  

But the differences may not exist anymore if both units output pure composite to a Crystalio.

Wow, lots of learning today...

ccm

[dokworm]

Yes the X0 has a much better output than the X9, but the X9 can be improved by running the composite output through the Crystallio and then perhaps through a mosquito.

I bought an X0, but it was damaged in transit, the laser is now out of alignment.
If anyone has a service manual for the HLD-X0, please let me know!
Cheers
-Pete

[dokworm]

I will probably be selling my Crystallio and X9 once I finish digitising my laserdisc collection. I'd love to keep it, but have a baby on the way, so now have to buy a bigger car!

[dokworm]

tomrlee_m998, on 13 April 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

I am lucky enough to have this monster in my rack. Yes, heaps of connection you can take care of.

Currently, I am using MSC-4000 for MUSE decoding plus a Lumagen HDQ for video processing.

Due to space constraint, I have not hooked it up with a rf demodulator but I have some in stock and ready to use.

If you need any more info, just let me know.

G'day again, are you in NSW by any chance?

[Mckie1]

Dokworm,

        Was given some of the service manual pages when I bought the player.

Please drop me a line so I can send what I have to you.

Still haven't set up player tested but haven't connected to muse decoder as yet.

[Mckie1]

May even be interested in crystalio, depending on model and cost of course.

As was thinking about getting lumagen xs

[cwt]

tomrlee_m998, on 17 April 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Very few receivers are fitted with BNC connectors for composite video, as far as I know. If you would like to take much care of it, a video processor could be considered at this stage.

Its a very long shot  tom and a good vp like a crystallio may do a better job with its algorithms but I once owned a integra 10.5 that came standard in aus with a bnc input module .Analog video was deinterlaced to progressive but certainly not upscaled to 1080 ; maybe cheaper than a crystallio if you can find one at all   

http://www.hometheat...006-part-2.html