94 replies to this topic

[justin25]

This means it will be Live and National in vic,tas,perth etc fantastic.

LINK TO FULL STORY: http://www.tvtonight...de-nsw-qld.html



NRL will now be Live around the country -on either Nine or GEM- on Friday nights, beginning from this week. Sunday afternoon games will be 4pm in each market.

Edited by justin25, 28 March 2012 - 06:07 PM.

[doodlefeatures]

So the ten people outside of NSW and Qld can watch the games in HD while most league fans get stuck with channel 9, the ridiculousness that is Australian FTA TV continues

[hidefdave]

The SD v HD debate notwithstanding, this is terrific news for league fans in the non-traditional states. I'm a Storm fan, and whilst the bulk of their matches are live on Fox, it pissed me off no end to not be able to watch the matches until the wee small hours if they drew a Friday night game somewhere!

There's many aspects of nein/WIN (particularly the latter) that really give me the brazen bits, but this is a great decision.

D.

[alanh]

Both,
This has nothing to do with the Government. Its about contracts with the NRL, AFL and whether the networks san make a profit.

AlanH

[Malich]

alanh, on 29 March 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

This has nothing to do with the Government.

No, it has everything to do with the Government. The existing regulations around the anti-siphoning list specifically say that sports on the list (AFL, NRL, etc) must be shown on the analogue / equivalent channel. That, in practice, means the primary digital channel.

This has been under review since the list was last renewed (2009? 2010?). Under the interim process, the networks can apply to the minister for an exception to allow events on the list to be broadcast on a secondary channel. This is what they've done.

The proposed changes - which have been bounced around since that last review - separate events into Tier A (e.g. AFL / NRL Grand Finals; must be shown on the primary channel) and Tier B (e.g. regular AFL / NRL games; may be allocated to secondary channels) events. But this has not been accepted / ratified yet. Allegedly, that will happen later in 2012 for the 2013 seasons - although they said that back in 2010 for the 2011 seasons, and in 2011 for the 2012 seasons, so be careful if you're holding your breath.

In short: It has everything to do with the Government, as they still currently need Conroy's permission to do it.

(edit: added description of the practical differences between Tiers A & B.)

Edited by Malich, 29 March 2012 - 04:55 PM.

[justin25]

Yes this has everything to do with the government if they didn't approve this legally they cant show it on GEM

[alanh]

The only anti-syphoning only applies to the primary channel in this case it's nine, NBN and WIN in RL states of NSW and Qld. In other states the protected programs are AFL.

So this is the reason why the NRL is on Nine/NBN/WIN and not GEM in those states. In the other states for the football, the AFL must be on 7/Prime and not 7mate. So GEM is free to transmit the NRL if they wish.

The NRL is so unpopular in WA, last year they were replayed late at night, because other programs rate much more highly.

AlanH

[MLXXX]

Alanh, whatever decisions networks did or did not make in the past, the opening post links to a webpage that includes this:

“This is a win-win situation for all the stakeholders – the viewers in these markets, the NRL, the Federal Government and of course Nine, whose joint mission is to bring the game to as many people as possible,” Jeffrey Browne, Nine Network Managing Director, said.

“We are particularly grateful for Minister Conroy’s positive and prompt consideration of the network’s application to make it a reality.”

I presume you are not asking us to believe that the Nine Network lodged, and the Federal minister favourably considered, an unnecessary application.

Edited by MLXXX, 29 March 2012 - 10:18 PM.

[Malich]

Your reply is barely comprehensible, alanh, so I'm forced to guess what you're trying to say.

Is it your contention that the various sports on the current anti-siphoning list are protected on a state-by-state basis, so that (for example)

• NRL games are only protected in NSW & QLD, while
  
• AFL games are only protected in Vic, Tas, SA, NT, & WA?

In the interests of clarity, it's probably best if you stick to a simple "yes" or "no" reply.

Edited by Malich, 29 March 2012 - 10:10 PM.

[GoForMoe]

What I'd suggest happened is that Alan was trying to claim that Nine wouldn't need approval to simulcast in NSW/Queensland in HD on Gem - missing the 'outside' part of the title, and is now posting a jumbled mess instead of admiting to being wrong.

Even under the proposed legislation, there is no state based anti-siphoning. With this exemption and under the proposed new laws, Nine would be allowed to put the NRL exclusively on Gem in NSW and Queensland if they so wished. Yes, the spirit of the exemption is to provide better coverage of sports outside their 'home' states - but there's nothing (besides perhaps the threat of Conroy revoking the exemption) that enforces said 'spirit'. Take for example the exemption Nine were given for the Cricket - with the intention to be used just to continue coverage on Gem during the news/overruns - being used to show the match on Gem in NSW and Queensland when the NRL was on.

[alanh]

My how people twist things
To quote the Broadcasting Services Act Volume 1 .pdf http://www.comlaw.go...C00263/Download page 296

Quote

"On 25 November 2010, the government announced reforms to the anti-siphoning scheme and released ‘Sport on television: a review of the anti-siphoning scheme in the contemporary digital environment’—the report of the review conducted in accordance with section 115A of the Broadcasting Services Act 1992 (the Act).
For more information see the Sport on Television—Review of the anti-siphoning scheme page.
The current operation of the scheme ensures that certain events are available to the whole viewing public by preventing pay TV licensees from acquiring exclusive rights to listed events. Under section 115 of the Act, the Minister may determine a list of events or events of a kind that the Minister believes should be available free to the general public. The current anti‑siphoning list comprises domestic and international sporting events in 12 categories including cricket, tennis, golf, motor sports and the football codes.
The scheme aims to give free-to-air broadcasters priority over pay TV licensees in acquiring rights to listed events. It prevents pay TV licensees from acquiring a right to televise a listed event until a right is acquired by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC), the Special Broadcasting Services (SBS) or by commercial free-to-air broadcasters reaching more than 50 per cent of the Australian population."

http://www.dbcde.gov...nd_antihoarding

Note that the anti-syphoning legislation is to stop Pay TV from buying prime sport programs to the exclusion of free to air. This has not happened. If a station does not broadcast the events on the list they must offer it to ABC/SBS if they don't want it then pay TV can buy it.

I can't see the word primary channel anywhere on this latest version of the act. So the question of channel 9 should be then why is it not HD on GEM nationally?

AlanH

[GoForMoe]

alanh, on 30 March 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

My how people twist things

Try reading,
Digital television broadcasting Schedule 4, Restrictions on televising anti-siphoning events Part 4A, Commercial television broadcasting services Division 1:
41A SDTV multi-channelled commercial television broadcasting service—restrictions on televising anti-siphoning events during the simulcast period if there is a core service etc.

Quote

During that period, the licensee must not televise on a SDTV
multi-channelled commercial television broadcasting service in the
licence area the whole of an anti-siphoning event unless:
(a) the licensee has previously televised in the licence area the
whole of the event on the core commercial television
broadcasting service; or
( B) the licensee will televise simultaneously in the licence area
the whole of the event on both:
(i) the core commercial television broadcasting service;
and
(ii) the SDTV multi-channelled commercial television
broadcasting service.
Televising a part of an anti-siphoning event
(3) During that period, the licensee must not televise on a SDTV
multi-channelled commercial television broadcasting service in the
licence area a part of an anti-siphoning event unless:
(a) the licensee has previously televised in the licence area the
part of the event on the core commercial television
broadcasting service; or
( B) the licensee will televise simultaneously in the licence area
the part of the event on both:
(i) the core commercial television broadcasting service;
and
(ii) the SDTV multi-channelled commercial television
broadcasting service; or
© the licensee televises the part of the event in a news or
current affairs program broadcast on the SDTV
multi-channelled commercial television broadcasting service.

41C HDTV multi-channelled commercial television broadcasting service—restrictions on televising anti-siphoning events during the simulcast period if there is a core service etc.

Quote

(2) During that period, the licensee must not televise on a HDTV
multi-channelled commercial television broadcasting service in the
licence area the whole of an anti-siphoning event unless:
...
During that period, the licensee must not televise on a HDTV
multi-channelled commercial television broadcasting service in the
licence area a part of an anti-siphoning event unless

And clause 41E and 41F maintain this restriction after the simulcast period. It's all available if you actually try reading. It's in Volume 2 from page 79 - of course that would have meant reading more than one document, so perhaps it might have been too hard.

Now kindly stop spreading misinformation. You are wrong.

Edited by GoForMoe, 30 March 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[hidefdave]

What's the PQ like for those watching on gem? For me through WIN western vic - still plenty of mosquito noise and macro blocking, but an improvement (albeit marginal) over the SD channel.

D.

[MLXXX]

MLXXX, on 29 March 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

“This is a win-win situation for all the stakeholders – the viewers in these markets, the NRL, the Federal Government and of course Nine, whose joint mission is to bring the game to as many people as possible,” Jeffrey Browne, Nine Network Managing Director, said.

“We are particularly grateful for Minister Conroy’s positive and prompt consideration of the network’s application to make it a reality.”

I presume you are not asking us to believe that the Nine Network lodged, and the Federal minister favourably considered, an unnecessary application.

Well, well, alanh, you are asking us to believe that Nine lodged an unnecessary application, ministerial staff unnecessarily referred the application to Minister Conroy, that he unnecessarily gave it favourable consideration and his purported approval; and to complete the cycle of ignorance, that the Nine Network Managing Director unnecessarily praised the Minister for his unnecessary approval, in a press release.

May I suggest to you, alanh, that in the future before you allege that a government department has misapplied the legislative provisions it is its responsibility to administer that you study the relevant Act, Regulations and other Legislative Instruments, and guidelines, and if appropriate, any relevant decisions handed down by the courts? By virtue of your very high post count, you are a "senior" member.

Edited by MLXXX, 31 March 2012 - 03:18 PM.

[alanh]

Goformoe,
Consider that in all of Qld except the SE corner, all of regional Victoria, all of regional SA are no longer simulcasting in those areas the broadcaster can use any channel they wish. In the middle of this year all of Southern NSW and the Northern slopes will also be added.

All,
Also explain why GEM is being used in Perth for the NRL when simulcasting exists until the middle of next year Nine (WIN) is showing drama and docos during this period. The licence area for Perth is unique to this location. GEM is also used in Adelaide and Melbourne who are also simulcasting Nine digital and analog.

Explain why the NRL is on WIN in all of coastal Queensland (except Sunshine and Gold Coasts and Brisbane), Darling and Southern Downs. is not on GEM because the simulcast is finished.

Anti-syphoning provision is to prevent Pay TV buying these programs first and locking FTA out. Pay TV has no interest in transmitting NRL on the satellite if it not allowed to be reveived in NSW & Qld and it is not popular in the rest of Australia where AFL is in high demand.

AlanH

Edited by alanh, 31 March 2012 - 01:57 AM.

[digitalj]

and for at least a few years now, anti-syphoning is also for the purpose of ensuring that all FTA viewers can access the relevant sports, not just the viewers with HD Tuners. That is why Nine needed permission to show it exclusively on GEM, because it is not being simulcast on Nine or GO! in those areas.

Edited by digitalj, 31 March 2012 - 02:53 AM.

[crippstor]

alanh, on 31 March 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

All,
Also explain why GEM is being used in Perth for the NRL when simulcasting exists until the middle of next year Nine (WIN) is showing drama and docos during this period. The licence area for Perth is unique to this location. GEM is also used in Adelaide and Melbourne who are also simulcasting Nine digital and analog.

Explain why the NRL is on WIN in all of coastal Queensland (except Sunshine and Gold Coasts and Brisbane), Darling and Southern Downs. is not on GEM because the simulcast is finished.


AlanH

Simple to explain. Ratings. In non NRL areas Gem is used and in traditional NRL areas the primary channel is used to increase overall ratings. To do otherwise would most likely dilute Nines ratings. This is why the exception was needed from, wait for it, the government as at the moment all FTA NRL and AFL matches are Tier A events and must be shown first on the primary channel unless an exception is granted as happened with the AFL for 7.

[GoForMoe]

alanh, on 31 March 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

Goformoe,
Consider that in all of Qld except the SE corner, all of regional Victoria, all of regional SA are no longer simulcasting in those areas the broadcaster can use any channel they wish. In the middle of this year all of Southern NSW and the Northern slopes will also be added.

"And clause 41E and 41F maintain this restriction after the simulcast period. It's all available if you actually try reading."

**** off.

[Malich]

alanh, on 30 March 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

My how people twist things

Indeed. Although, I see that making unsupported and incorrect assumptions - for example, that I meant "the Broadcasting Services Act Volume 1" when what I actually wrote was "The existing regulations around the anti-siphoning list" - is still a perfectly acceptable practice.

alanh, on 31 March 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

Also explain why GEM is being used in Perth for the NRL when simulcasting exists until the middle of next year Nine (WIN) is showing drama and docos during this period.

You're overlooking a very important word from the first post.

"Live".

I'll leave it to you to read the relevant legislation (now that GoForMoe has kindly corrected your misapprehension on that particular point). Then you can ponder the relevance of that little word to the applicability of the anti-siphoning legislation. Then you can consider the difference between showing NRL games at 1am on 9 Perth vs (to pick an example from yesterday) a 4:30pm-8:30pm broadcast on GEM Perth.

After all, I wouldn't want to be accused of twisting things, so I'll let you come to your own conclusions…

(edit: grammar, as highlighted.)

Edited by Malich, 31 March 2012 - 10:29 AM.

[justin25]

The picture quality was great here on GEM in Adelaide on Friday night

[MLXXX]

MLXXX, on 29 March 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

May I suggest to you, alanh, that in the future before you allege that a government department has misapplied the legislative provisions it is its responsibility to administer that you study the relevant Act, ... .

I should also have suggested, alanh, that -- most importantly -- you identify relevant facts. These facts will typically include the title of the forum thread, and the contents of the first post in the thread, which will indicate the scope and nature of what is being claimed.

If you continually go off half-cocked, you expose yourself to ridicule, and your forum contributions become dysfunctional. You are merely responding to your own imagination of what was posted. Others then need to spend their time setting the record straight.

[alanh]

Malich,
Sydney transmission on Sunday 5-7 pm
Perth transmission 5-7 pm. Considering that 5 PM WST is 7 PM EST the program has been delayed 2 hours.
If you look at the program guide you will find that nearly everything is delayed by 3 hours in summer and 2 hours in winter.

I do not know about NRL, but the AFL generally makes broadcast rights to the broadcaster who offers the biggest offer. The anti-syphoning legislation is to prevent pay TV from buying the most popular programs. NRL is not popular at all in states outside of NSW & Qld.

If you look at the Foxtel program guide they also have live games. This will be part of the deal with the NRL.

Quote

Rugby League Football
5.1 Each match in the National Rugby League Premiership competition, including the Finals Series, except for:
(a) all matches to be played between 30 March 2012 and 30 April 2012 as part of the 2012 National Rugby League Premiership competition.
5.2 Each match in the National Rugby League State of Origin Series.
5.3 Each international rugby league “test” match involving the senior Australian representative team, played in Australia, New Zealand or the United Kingdom, except for:
(a) the match to be played on 20 April 2012 in New Zealand between the senior Australian representative team and the New Zealand representative team.
5.4Each match ofthe Rugby League World Cupinvolving the senior Australian representative team.

http://www.comlaw.go...ils/F2012C00180

Is Superseries the Premiership competition?

MLXXX,
Whilst Nine management is thanking Minister, the minister thinks so little of this that he has not made a media release on this topic where as he has plenty of other media releases.

Go for moe,
Those subclauses may say that however the main description of the anti-syphoning clauses is to prevent pay TV taking the most popular sporting broadcasts from free to air. If pay TV don't want the program then FTA can show it on any channel in the multiplex of that broadcaster. These clauses only apply if Pay TV want to buy this program. Since Foxtel cannot prevent reception in NSW and Qld in those areas the rules apply. This is why its in SD in NSW & Qld.

Alanh

Edited by alanh, 31 March 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[GoForMoe]

alanh, on 31 March 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Malich,
Sydney transmission on Sunday 5-7 pm
Perth transmission 5-7 pm. Considering that 5 PM WST is 7 PM EST the program has been delayed 2 hours.
If you look at the program guide you will find that nearly everything is delayed by 3 hours in summer and 2 hours in winter.

Except that the Friday games were shown live into Perth (just like in Sydney) and the Sunday games are delayed in Sydney (just like in Perth). Unlike the 'popular' AFL which is delayed on Friday nights into Perth.

Quote

I do not know about NRL, but the AFL generally makes broadcast rights to the broadcaster who offers the biggest offer. The anti-syphoning legislation is to prevent pay TV from buying the most popular programs. NRL is not popular at all in states outside of NSW & Qld.

And the legislation makes no accommodation as to state based differences in the 'popularity' of sports.

Quote

If you look at the Foxtel program guide they also have live games. This will be part of the deal with the NRL.

Yes. Something that is not 'part of the deal with the NRL' is getting an anti-siphoning list exemption to allow the broadcast of NRL regular season matches on multichannels.

Quote

MLXXX,
Whilst Nine management is thanking the Minister, the minister thinks so little of this that he has not made a media release on this topic where as he has plenty of other media releases.

Perhaps because these exemptions are now considered the norm because they are in line with the intended application of the laws currently before parliament that would put the NRL regular season matches on Tier B of the anti-siphoning list, which allows the broadcast on SDTV and HDTV multi-channelled broadcasts, unlike events on Tier A which would continue to have the current restriction on being on the main channel (or core broadcasting service), a restriction maintained after the switchoff of analogue television (a point at which one SDTV service has to be nominated as the core broadcasting service, which then attracts both the anti-siphoning tier A restrictions, as well as local content and closed captioning requirements).

Do you understand any of this? Or are you going to continue to spew uninformed statements without any attempt at factual accuracy?

alanh, on 31 March 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Go for moe,
Those subclauses may say that however the main description of the anti-syphoning clauses is to prevent pay TV taking the most popular sporting broadcasts from free to air. If pay TV don't want the program then FTA can show it on any channel in the multiplex of that broadcaster. These clauses only apply if Pay TV want to buy this program. Since Foxtel cannot prevent reception in NSW and Qld in those areas the rules apply. This is why its in SD in NSW & Qld.

The exemptions provided and the common practice under the proposed new laws mean that there is nothing legally preventing the NRL regular season matches being shown exclusively on Gem or Go! in NSW and Queensland. Previously to the exemption, there was a strict requirement that meant the sport had to be shown on the main channel first - the exemption removes that requirement with no conditions attached.

The intention of the anti-siphoning laws are to give access to certain sports to viewers of free to air television - the 'popularity' or whether Pay television 'wants' a program is not part of the legislation, neither is some arbitrary state division of the football codes.

Say for a moment you're actually right, then surely Ten wouldn't have been required to show the Diamonds netball matches live on Ten instead of exclusively on One HD like they did with the regular ANZ Championship matches. International and Domestic Netball were both previously on the ABC, surely about the only example of something on the anti-siphoning list that you could even remotely suggest Foxtel 'didn't want'. Even then, the law was still in effect and the anti-siphoned coverage of international netball matches meant that Ten broadcast the matches first. Netball's not 'popular' anywhere, so surely it also fails your arbitrary 'popularity' test for whether something is required to be on the core SDTV service.

But of course you're not right. I challenge you to prove it. Show me the section of the legislation that establishes a 'if Foxtel don't want it' test that removes events from the requirement to be shown on a main channel first. Do so, and I'll retract all my comments and never post on this site again.

Edited by GoForMoe, 31 March 2012 - 05:12 PM.

[Malich]

alanh, on 31 March 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

http://www.comlaw.go...ils/F2012C00180

Ah, cool, so you've found it. Now, try this: scroll down to the end, find the most recent amendment (30 March 2012), note down the sections affected, then scroll back up and read them.

Or, you can read the text of the various individual amendments here. Please take notice of the specific changes in Amendment 5.

alanh, on 31 March 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Whilst Nine management is thanking Minister, the minister thinks so little of this that he has not made a media release on this topic where as he has plenty of other media releases.

So let me get this straight: a press release would convince you that a ministerial decision was necessary to allow 9 to show anti-siphoning list events on a secondary channel, but you refuse to accept the actual legal instrument that implement the minister's decision?

I've given up being charitable to you in this thread. You're an idiot.

[MLXXX]

alanh, on 31 March 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

MLXXX,
Whilst Nine management is thanking Minister, the minister thinks so little of this that he has not made a media release on this topic where as he has plenty of other media releases.

Perhaps, alanh, the Minister felt that promulgation of a Legislative Instrument was sufficient on this occasion. See amendment 5 referred to in Malich's post immediately above.