37 replies to this topic

[troykm]

I have a TiVo at home but needed a second PVR and didn't want to pay for another TiVo. So I thought I would give this PVR a try. At $249 from dick smith  it seemed like a bargain. Before setting it up I did the firmware upgrade to the latest version and I have to say for what it is it works very well indeed. Okay it's not a TiVo, but the free view EPG works very well and the series link function works flawlessly. The CRID system works and I have not missed the end of any recordings and can record to concurrent shows on the same tuner, something you cannot do on TiVo or other PVRs due to padding. It lacks the extra functionality of TiVo but at one third the price, who's arguing? For a cheap 500 gig Pvr that just works and doesn't need an Internet connection this PVR is very good indeed.

If anyone has any specific questions about the device I'm happy to answer them. No I do not work for Grundig :-)

[pgdownload]

Hi Troy. Thanks for the info.

I was wondering how much of a show gets recorded if the timer is set by series record. i.e. is there any padding or is it just the show accurate to say -/+ a minute?

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[troykm]

Hey Peter,

The series link and one off recording require no padding as the box does not record timeslots but rather by the embedded CRID code each show has. So the timer fires off when the code comes through the broadcast stream and does not stop recording until the code stops hence you don't miss the end anymore :-) the code only stops when the show stops :-)


http://freeview.com....x?glossaryId=20

That explains it in better use of the English language than I just did lol

Edited by troykm, 01 March 2012 - 08:54 AM.

[pgdownload]

Thanks Troy,

Looks like someone should look up the definition of "Intuitive" but I suppose you get the gist of what they're trying to say Good to see some PVRs finally starting to use the CRID to effect. Always interested in how the units handle more complex tasks.

Maybe you could set up some overlapping series recordings and see how they fire off. For example

Show 1 12:30-1:30
Show 2 12:00-1:00
Show 3 1:00-1:30

All different channels. Be interesting to see what the unit decides to do. Can you see the actual timers that Freeview Intuitive sets and the times they're set for before they fire? Is there any way to see if some of your shows will not be recorded (like the Tivo does?)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[troykm]

I have tried all types of recordings and they have all worked. It will only allow bookings if there are no conflicts. :-)

[prl]

troykm, on 01 March 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

I have tried all types of recordings and they have all worked. It will only allow bookings if there are no conflicts. :-)

I think what Peter (pgdownload) was trying to get at was what the PVR would do if there were no conflicts at the time the timers were created, but their were when the timers actually ran. If you have recurring timers (like weekly), that could be weeks or even months after the timer was set up.

To expand on what Peter said, suppose the scheduled times for the recording from the EPG at the time they were set up were:
Show 1 12:30-1:30
Show 2 12:00-1:00
Show 3 1:00-1:30

but the actual broadcast times were:
Show 1 12:37-1:39
Show 2 12:05-1:10
Show 3 1:03-1:35

What would happen to shows 2 & 3? While the times I've used are made up, they're in no way unusual.

[troykm]

You can see a list of recording scheduled and they display the advertised times however they don't start until the actual show starts. I'll see what happens with the above puzzle and report back.

[DrP]

Where are you located, troykm?

[troykm]

DrP, on 01 March 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Where are you located, troykm?

At home ;-)

Melbourne

[DrP]

I'm curious about the accuracy of the CRID data in other areas in comparison to what is transmitted here.  My suspicions are, and I've posted this elsewhere, that the closer you are to the originating broadcaster - ie, you receive the broadcast from the originating network rather than an affiliate - the more useful the data.

Could you set your PVR up to record something from 7mate using the series recording and give some feedback as to how it performed?  Did it start recording before the beginning of the targetted program? Did it finish recording after the end of the targetted program?  The timing of the triggers on 7mate here is often woeful.  A quick look at my logs shows that the triggers would result in the last 5 to 10 minutes of 'Buck Rogers in the 25th Century' (shown at 6:30am) would be missed.  The entire shedule is littered with such examples.

[troykm]

Ok the above puzzle, recordings over 3 channels. The third recording in that situation creates a clash and your asked to cancel one of the 3.

But you can record concurrent programs with out issue ie: channel 7 1. 830-930 2. 930-1030
                                                                                                          10 1. 830-930 2. 930-1030
That on the TiVo would cause a clash due to padding.

As for the crid data, all shows I have recorded on any channel have been fine. All started recording between 5 seconds and 2 min before show starts and all stop recording within 10 seconds of credits finishing.

There is something about the guide and scheduled recordings I can't put my finger on yet but I'll keep playing and try to work it out.

[Paul55]

This is interesting but it still doesn't address the major problem with Australian TV broadcasting - the refusal of the commercial networks to stick to their schedules.
Accuracy of CRID data is somewhat moot if there are still 3 shows playing at the same time - you still only have 2 tuners.

[pgdownload]

troykm, on 02 March 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

Ok the above puzzle, recordings over 3 channels. The third recording in that situation creates a clash and your asked to cancel one of the 3.

That's standard for manual timers. What I wonder about (and what you can't easily test) is how "Intuitive" timers resolve such issues. It would seem that trying to record two shows (intuitively) between 7:30 and 8:30 and then another at 8:30 to 9:30 would result in the third timer simply failing. Some PVRs (like the Tivo?) will try to get as much the 3rd show as it can based on tuner availability. It seems this one (like most) is based on a first in best dressed approach.

I don't think you mentioned but is there some place where you can see any Intuitive timers that will fail?

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Quote

There is something about the guide and scheduled recordings I can't put my finger on yet but I'll keep playing and try to work it out.

Don't understand what this means, but let us know when you do

[prl]

pgdownload, on 02 March 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

... Some PVRs (like the Tivo?) will try to get as much the 3rd show as it can based on tuner availability. It seems this one (like most) is based on a first in best dressed approach.
...

Doing it that way means that you don't miss the denouement of the first program, but you miss the start of the second, which I think is a better choice (given the lack of other alternatives) than cutting the end of the first program.

[troykm]

prl, on 02 March 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

Doing it that way means that you don't miss the denouement of the first program, but you miss the start of the second, which I think is a better choice (given the lack of other alternatives) than cutting the end of the first program.

True but I don't allow clipping on my TiVo. It drives me insane. I want the whole thing or nothing lol

[DrP]

Another person that want's to see the whole episode, what do you make of that Peter?  I guess I'm not so strange afterall!

[prl]

DrP, on 02 March 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

Another person that want's to see the whole episode, what do you make of that Peter?  I guess I'm not so strange afterall!

Is that addressed to me? There are two Peters who've recently posted in this topic.

I have made it clear often enough in the past that I think the present scheduling of TV programs is dreadful and fixing it (and having a bit of "slack time" -- ad break, station promos, news updates, etc -- between programs) is the only way to get pgdownload's example to record correctly, no matter what other technology you throw at the problem. I doubt, though, that the situation will change without regulations to that effect.

[DrP]

No, the other Peter.

In other threads, in response to me saying that the beginning of shows is often cut off, Peter said that it doesn't matter.  Clearly it does matter to some, if not him.  For instance, from my continuing analysis of the data here it turns out that the beginning of 30 Rock was cut off (by the recording triggers) last night.  In effect, the set-up for the entire episode was missed.  Peter may not think that the premise for an entire episode is important but I'd wager that most reasonable people would!

[troykm]

Well a nice surprise tonight. A non advertised feature of this pvr, you can watch a 3rd service when recording 2 shows. Of course the 3rd show must be in the same freq as the recording shows. Ie: abc1 and eleven were recording so I could watch abc2/3/24 or 1/10 as well :-) nice. TiVo can't do that :-)

[prl]

troykm, on 02 March 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Well a nice surprise tonight. A non advertised feature of this pvr, you can watch a 3rd service when recording 2 shows. Of course the 3rd show must be in the same freq as the recording shows. Ie: abc1 and eleven were recording so I could watch abc2/3/24 or 1/10 as well :-) nice. TiVo can't do that :-)

Most dual-tuner PVRs can do this.

[pgdownload]

Understandable. Personally I don't like using autoscheduling at all as I'd much rather spend a few minutes each week tweaking my timers (and padding) so I know exactly what is going to be recorded in my name

If you're happy enough to miss an episode every now and again of a show (as opposed to sacrificing  5 minutes) that's a choice. But personally if I have to choose between missing the end of a show and the start of one then I'd rather see the end.

I am interested in how auto schedulers make their decisions on what to record when the recording gets tough (i.e. clashes). Sounds like the new PVR with the CRID is doing an excellent job of catching your shows when there's no such issues.

Its always amazed me that Tivo with its great thumbs up rating system never tries to use that to schedule its series recordings. If it hit three shows at once, two with 5 thumbs up and one with two onlly then deciding what it should record shhould be simple. Instead I believe it just uses a simple first come first served blanket approach too. Unfortunately Tivo have patented using rating to prioritise recordings so other boxes can't use it.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Edited by pgdownload, 03 March 2012 - 01:05 PM.

[pgdownload]

troykm, on 02 March 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Well a nice surprise tonight ... TiVo can't do that :-)

That's one area where the Tivo was deliberately dumbed down. They actually decided to limit the PVRs capabilities so that users could understand that two tuners = two shows. Full stop.

[DrP]

Really?  I've never heard of that.  Do you have any official documents that indicate the tivo PVRs were 'deliberately dumbed down'?

[troykm]

Just saw the 1tb version at Harvey Norman for $347. Very tempting lol. Normally $449

Edit: ok lol got the 1tb version from David Jones for $347 (hate Harvey Norman and DJs price match) it now comes with a new learning remote that looks not unlike the foxtel IQ remote. So I'm happy :-).

Edited by troykm, 04 March 2012 - 10:38 AM.

[pjc]

So are you returning the DSE one?