1121 replies to this topic

[prl]

sid&gladys, on Jan 7 2011, 04:27 PM, said:

The year posted was 06.  Have just read it now in jan 11.  Have already bought online from bigw lg dvd rec hdd&stb recorder which finally realised and discovered does not record hd channel ... which my only reason for buying it.  Occasionally, very occasionally, i want to record a prog on one of the digital channels.  Why is it all so difficult?  I love my tape recorders and yes I time shift (new phrase new everything) watch it when i'm ready and then tape over...simple as.  How many people in my age bracket are being duped because of ignorance.  Even my granddaughter couldn't fix it but said she knew someone who knows 'everything'.  Still waiting. Just tell me which recorder actually records digital.  If i have read article correctly, none of them!  Other than i think foxtel austar etc which you hire and pay dearly for.  So the picture is clearer, bigger etc etc but analogue was ok too thank you.
Dorothea lomavell@hotmail.com
jan 7 2011recorders digital?

Hi, Dorothea. I'm afraid that the usefulness of your old VCR is running out on you. All the analog broadcasts will be switched off by the end of 2013. If the LG recorder you have isn't a High Definition model (model number in the post would have been helpful), then there's nothing that can be done that will get it to record (or even display) the High Definition digital services. If that's the case, about the only thing you could do would be to try to return it and get a HD capable recorder. If you really do only want to record, watch and delete, you may find that a HD PVR (record to disk only) and a separate DVD player (if you want to be able to play DVDs) may be a better option.

I'm also a bit confused about whether the DVD recorder you have is a digital standard definition recorder, or an analog recorder, since at times you're saying you can't record HD services (implying that perhaps it can record standard definition digital), and other times you seem to be implying that it can't record digital at all ("Just tell me which recorder actually records digital"). Can it display and record services like ABC2, Nine's GO! or Seven's 7TWO, which are standard definition digital, but not available on analog TV?

[swuzzlebubble]

Hi I'm after a new digitsl tuner/recorder to replace toppy that permanantly wants to "check files and folders".

Budget ~$400 on eBay
Looking at Beyonwiz DP-P1 & Panasonic DMR-XW380 & TiVo 320

Either of these known to be more reliable than the other?

Like the guys above I just want to record stuff and watch it back
No need for fancy edits etc

Edited by swuzzlebubble, 15 January 2011 - 08:16 PM.

[diesel]

~$400 you could possibly buy new Beyonwiz DP-Lite i or even haggle on a TiVo 320. The XW380 is a good DVD Recorder but IMO the other two are better PVRs

[Ultrasmart]

FYI, Myer stores have the Tivo 320 on sale for $404- atm, sale ending on 26th Jan I believe.

[swuzzlebubble]

Thanks guys.
Have a Myer voucher needs using so that might seal it.

> "FYI, Myer stores have the Tivo 320 on sale for $404- atm, sale ending on 26th Jan I believe"

Is there any link to this deal to confirm it?

Edited by swuzzlebubble, 17 January 2011 - 09:34 AM.

[Tassie Devil]

I see it is close to 10 months since this essay was edited.  Maybe time to delete stuff on SCART now?

Interest appears to have declined about DVDRs so that section could be pruned also.

Any other suggestions to improve it to help nubies?

TIA

John

[Downy]

Hi if anyone can help would like to know has anyone had a Thomson PVR Model JL8006
High Definition Full HD
500GB Harddrive Built in
Twin HD Tuner
Receive + Record HD + SD TV Programs
Time Shift & Pause Live TV
7 day EPG Timer Record Scheduling
USB Port for File Transfer

is this any good or forget it

Kind Rgards Downy

[pgdownload]

Downy, on Jun 20 2011, 10:40 AM, said:

is this any good or forget it Kind Rgards Downy

Hi Downy. Hard to find info on the unit. Apparently Target sell them for about $350. I can't say specifically but things you should confirm:

1) Doesn't seem to have any Ad Skip buttons (eg -/+ 3min and -/+ 10 seconds)
2) Can only offload files to a PC (ie can't play external files)?
3) Only makes mention of watch one file while recording another - can it actually record two shows at once?

For $300 you could have a refurbished Beyonwiz P2, or a new Beyonwiz Lite for $400. Here

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Edited by pgdownload, 20 June 2011 - 12:04 PM.

[Downy]

pgdownload, on Jun 20 2011, 12:04 PM, said:

Hi Downy. Hard to find info on the unit. Apparently Target sell them for about $350. I can't say specifically but things you should confirm:

1) Doesn't seem to have any Ad Skip buttons (eg -/+ 3min and -/+ 10 seconds)
2) Can only offload files to a PC (ie can't play external files)?
3) Only makes mention of watch one file while recording another - can it actually record two shows at once?

For $300 you could have a refurbished Beyonwiz P2, or a new Beyonwiz Lite for $400. Here

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[Downy]

Hi Peter thanks for the reply yes target have this one at the moment for $136.00 as a clearence

thought it sounded to good to be true. as you say just can't find any info on this model

Kind Regards Downy

[pgdownload]

Downy, on Jun 20 2011, 01:16 PM, said:

Hi Peter thanks for the reply yes target have this one at the moment for $136.00 as a clearence

For that price I'd be expecting the answer to the limitations I mentioned is probably yes. However that's not necessarily a deal breaker if you just want a simple cheap unit to act like a digital VCR. Up to you.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[SunHillFire]

please help - i just bought a new panasonic 500gb HDD blu ray recorder - not sure exact name, but it seems like a new model.

anyway, did a channel scan and it cant find SBS (1, 2 or radio)

rescanned - same result!

yet the tv it is plugged in to can find them.

what do i do????? and how on earth can this even happen???/

[diesel]

try just having the antenna connected to the Pana recorder - rmove the antenna from the TV. Now try a rescan on the Pana recorder. The signal being split between the recorder and the TV may be too much for it because it may be too weak. Also, check the lead from the antenna to the recorder - try a different one just incase the lead has a lot of losses in it...

[pgdownload]

Its called the digital cliff. Analogue TV slowly degrades as the reception weakens. eg

90% => 90% Picture Quality
80% => 80% Picture Quality
70% => 70% Picture Quality
etc.

Digital TV however is largely all or nothing. eg

90% => 100% Picture Quality
80% => 100% Picture Quality
70% => 100% Picture Quality

until

69% => 0% Picture Quality

Nature of the beast. Some equipment will handle 68% or even 65% but it varies. FWIW I'd suspect your aerial isn't suited to the digital SBS frequency. If you want to view it then get an antenna guy out.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[dml-ee]

Downy, on Jun 20 2011, 01:46 PM, said:

Hi Peter thanks for the reply yes target have this one at the moment for $136.00 as a clearence

thought it sounded to good to be true. as you say just can't find any info on this model

Kind Regards Downy

Downy, on Jun 20 2011, 11:10 AM, said:

Hi if anyone can help would like to know has anyone had a Thomson PVR Model JL8006
High Definition Full HD
500GB Harddrive Built in
Twin HD Tuner
Receive + Record HD + SD TV Programs
Time Shift & Pause Live TV
7 day EPG Timer Record Scheduling
USB Port for File Transfer

is this any good or forget it

Kind Rgards Downy

Hello.
We bought one of these on clearance from Target for $139.
Good value (compared to the original $349), for a functional but cheap unit.

Pro:
Dual HD DVB-T tuners, can record 2 shows at one.
500GB HDD (Hitachi DS-7SAC500, 7200rpm, SATA 3.0Gb/s)
Fast channel search, found all available channels easily.
Easy to set recording using the EPG, which is formatted like the TV guide for one channel at a time.
Includes A/V output (and cable), RGB outputs (and cable), HDMI output (no cable).
USB Host Port - can copy MPEG1/2/H264 recording between the internal and external drives.
Mechanical OFF switch.

Con:
No Analog tuner, AUX video input or DV-IN facility.
User interface is not bad, but nowhere near as polished as our LG RH397D.
Recordings are listed by channel, date/time, length & GB size only - no thumbnail, no show name. [Can rename, but too much hassle.]
Uncompressed recordings - HD= 4GB/hr, SD= 2GB/hr - fill up the drive quickly.
"Low power"? 19W operating, 18W in standby! Fan and HDD never power down.

Bottom line:
- Can't complain much for the price.
- We can now record HD shows, and the kids have a PVR of their own.
- I will turn it off to save power and noise, when not planning to record.

[garysch37]

When I try to play the first two Titles off my DVR HDD, I get the error, "An err in HDD recording and playback is detected", and it immediately returns me to the TV signal (i.e. out of the Titles List).

The unit is an LG RH398H-M HDD/DVD Recorder.  I apologize for the length of the following description of my actions, the machine's responses, and even my troubleshooting efforts:  I aim to be precise.

I just purchased the unit in December 2010, so it is fairly new.  Despite that, the hard drive is almost full (just over 26 hours free, but part of that is because at the beginning I had a Recordable Time setting of SP (2 hours) (or whatever the default is), after which I set all future recordings to EP (6 hours)).  I was also maxed out on the number of Titles on the hard drive when this error occurred.  But deleting a couple of other Titles didn't help:  the error still occurred.  Just before the error first occurred, I was deleting ads (commercials) from two Titles (Edit > Delete Part) in preparation of burning to DVD.  After the ads were removed, one Title (the first on the hard drive) was almost 6 hours long and the second Title (the second file on the hard drive) was over 7 hours long (they were the entire Season 1 and 2 of a half-hour sitcom (Big Bang Theory)).  Rather than risking loss of work by removing all the ads in one go, I did it in chunks.  Also, by the way, I built these two Titles by Combining the individual episodes together (if that makes a difference to the diagnosis).

When I was done removing the ads, a peculiar symptom appeared on both Titles:  when I played full screen either Title from the hard drive, a ghostly image of the Title List screen (you know, the grid containing all the Titles on the hard drive and the left-hand menu) appeared over the beginning 2 seconds of the playback, and the playback sputtered for another couple seconds, and then was fine.  The symptom reappeared each time I tried playing either Title.  But playback of all other Titles on the drive were fine.  I missed one episode's commercials on Title 2 and so I went back in and deleted those.  Then when I tried the playback of that Title, I got the above error message.  Now I was unable to playback any Title on the drive:  they all either returned the error message or hung the machine (the machine froze, so I had to power if off and on).  The playback of any thumbnail in the Title List (when the "cursor" is on that thumbnail) was fine for all Titles, including the Big Bang ones (no ghost image).  Then all of sudden Title 2's thumbnail turned into a blue screen, and remains that way.

When I unplugged the power to the unit, waited 5 seconds, and plugged it back in again, I was able to get all Titles except the first page of Titles (in the Titles List) to play back.  For the Titles in the first page, when I moved my "cursor" over a Title, if its thumbnail didn't automatically play, then if I tried to do a full playback, I'd get the error.  If a thumbnail didn't automatically play when the "cursor" was on it, then I could get it to play by moving the cursor to a neighbour Title, and if that neighbour Title's thumbnail played, then when I returned to the problem Title, its thumbnail played.  If a thumbnail was playing, then I could play its full screen version.  The exception to this is of course Title 1 & 2:  trying to play them still brings up the error message, and Title 2's thumbnail is still blue.

Any help to recover access to these two Titles so that I can burn them to DVD and get them off the hard drive would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Gary

[pgdownload]

Quite detailed however its unlikely that a specific solution will be presented IMO (Although we can live in hope). Its also possible your harddrive might be failing, but its hard to tell the difference between that and buggy firmware not quite handling edit requests properly.

As a general rule, whether it be on a computer or on a DVDR, creating massive files with lots of edits can create issues. You've probably pushed your machine as far as it should go. I'd recommend keeping your files smaller.

Although it won't help, if you're keen to edit and collect recordings, you might be better off getting a PVR rather than a DVDR. Many models can easily transfer (hi quality) recordings to a PC (whereas DVDRs are generally setup not to) where they can be edited and burnt to as few or many DVDs as you'd like (alternatively just put them all onto a $100 media player). PVRs also have excellent ad skipping features largely negating the need to remove ads and other benefits like being able to record two channels at once. A Beyonwiz Lite would cost less than $400.

As for the Titles, your best bet would probably be to spend $80 at Big Bang!

Sorry

Peter Gillespie

Edited by pgdownload, 05 July 2011 - 01:47 PM.

[lockyer]

To delete or not delete - this is the question...

I have done alittle recording on our Wintal PVR (approx 5 or 6 shows) and have watched them and I was going to delete them. While chatting with my neighbour who also has a PVR, I mentioned I was going to delete the few shows I had recorded..and he said don't, so asked why and he was told by Mr salesman when he purchased his that the HDD will start to fail after approx 1000 uses, what is a use I asked and he stated they told him that if you delete/format after one recording that is 1 use but if you record until the HDD was almost full and then delete/format that is only 1 use so you should almost fill the HDD before deleting all the contents ...

Is that correct ?? Now I read the opening post( a very good bit of info) and I cannot remember reading anything about this but on another site that sells PVR's it does say you should defrag/format the drive every month or 2 weeks ??

Your thoughts please

Many Thanks L

Edited by lockyer, 05 July 2011 - 04:31 PM.

[pgdownload]

Is that correct ?? Your thoughts please Many Thanks L[/quote]Everything mentioned is completely incorrect

Most PVRs generally run 5+ years without any issues. When they're turned on most PVR harddrives actually never stop. (i.e there is no such thing as "uses" as the hardrive is continually reading and writing all the time). Imagine if a harddrive in a PC was expected to fail after 1000 deletes? A harddrive in a PVR is no different.

As to defraging, again there is no need on a PVR (Which is why there is no such option in any PVRs menu ) Defraging is needed on a PC. It happens because PCs routinely delete 1000's and 1000's of files of all sizes (tiny to huge). When a drive is empty this is no problem because each file is written in a continuous line (like a groove in a record player). The problem occurs because files a deleted all over the drive leaving gaps. The harddrive then slots new files in to what ever gaps it can find. This means to read (or write) a file the hardrive has to hop all over the place (like jumping the needle back and forth in grooves in a record player). As you can imagine this slows things down (after a while considerably)

In a PVR this isn't an issue as there are usually only a very few files (maybe 100 all up). And these files are all huge (Gigabytes). So if one is deleted there's plenty of space to write another one.

So feel confident to use your PVR as it was intended. To record, watch and delete.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[Paul55]

lockyer, on Jul 5 2011, 02:16 PM, said:

he was told by Mr salesman when he purchased his that the HDD will start to fail after approx 1000 uses

Perhaps the salesman was confusing it with the toasters he was selling yesterday

[lockyer]

Thanks Guy's

Now where's that delete button....

Cheers

[garysch37]

@pgdownload:  Thanks very much for your reply.  I believe you and you're probably right with regard to my specific problem.  I also appreciate the PVR suggestion.  It's just that I received this DVR as a gift, so my home didn't benefit from my usual comprehensive research before buying any significant product.  Nevertheless, I hope you don't mind my exploring your answers a little bit.

A harddrive failing on my DVR only after a few months--whether it's because the drive is near full or not--tells me it's a shitty harddrive.  But I suspect it's not an isolated issue, but rather not only is it this entire harddrive model that's at fault, but all DVR/PVR harddrives might be shitty compared to PC harddrives, despite their very different uses.  My brother's DVR, of an entirely different make, has all kinds of other problems, many of which I share (but didn't mention in this thread).  And, again, buggy firmware I suspect is systemic as well;  just most people haven't filled up their drives as fast as I have (I do two things, program computers and watch TV;  yes, it's a sad life).

Nevertheless, you are right in that computers (mostly Windows) also have some issues when dealing with really huge files--actually, with or without lots of edits--though probably not as much as DVRs.  But, still, there are a lot of professional editors (including just about every Hollywood editor) using Apple's Avid or Final Cut Pro, that are editing files much much much bigger than a video recorder will ever see, with the number of edits thousands of times greater than on DVR/PVRs, that have no problem on a computer--albeit a very powerful computer.  Even amateur videographers have no problem on an average computer with Pinnacle, Premiere or iMovie.

Are we just talking about the difference in dollars?  Because most of the cost of a PC/Mac is in the "general purpose" category:  a computer can be any tool;  it just depends on software.  But I can take a regular half-decent 500GB harddrive for a computer, and burn just a tiny operating system and a very basic digital video editing program into firmware onto a motherboard , and get a pretty damn good DVR/PVR, for the same price as others.

What I'm confused about now is that it's not as if DVR/PVRs are new technology, since they've been around for some time.  And if you count them in as small versions of a computer, then the technology has been around for many decades.  The only explanation I can come up with is that digital video recording technology like DVR/PVR is only a temporary measure between VCRs and Home Theater PCs (Media Centres, as in a TV tuner card into a PC expansion slot, plus drivers and software to install on the computer).  But HTPCs never caught on with the mass public.  So now both DVR/PVR and HTPC are themselves only a temporary measure until all broadcast TV ceases to exist, to be replaced by cloud TV.  I can't wait.  To have 100% control over what I watch and when I want to watch it, where the choice of what to watch is the universal set of all big and small screen programming since their invention, all without advertising because I'll happily pay for it:  heaven on Earth!  But I digress.  My main point is that temporary measures will always suck, and by that I mean manufacturers will not put much effort into them.  Am I wrong?

I've also observed behavior by my DVR that tells me it is not entirely digital, which could be the reason for many of these problems.  For example, editing out commercials has not been as digitally precise as doing something similar on my PC with video editing software.  Specifically, even though I place my start and end points for the cut on my DVR precisely (i.e. on specific frames), it includes many neighbouring frames in the result, and in playback it freezes on one of those neighbouring frames for about 1 second.  That tells me it's not a digital edit, not entirely.  I'm not saying that computers (all digital) don't have thousands of forums filled with millions of complaints from its users, but perhaps if my DVR at least was all digital I wouldn't have some of the problems I'm having.  (Now that I've thought of this a little more, I'm wondering whether this end result of my edits is due to an anti-anti-advertising measure.)

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand this technology.  Thanks again for your help.

Gary

[Tassie Devil]

Gary

If it is any consolation most of us have shared in your frustration from time to time with PVR problems.  Unfortunately the norm these days is to release items when "near enough" is deemed good enough for the firmware.  Sometimesn firmware is only to beta standards with consumers left to discover the bugs and there is an obvious reason for that - price.  Lets face it, the video gear we are buying now IS relatively inexpensive when you look back even a few years to see what was being paid for gear which was far less capable.  And that is the catch 22.  To be competitive they design as many exciting gizmos into each unit as possible => greater complication and sophistication with the software.

On the subject of HDDs in PVRs, I do not agree they are of poorer quality.  They vary no more than any HDD you can buy off the shelf.  Some brands are more reliable than others and within well respected brands you can get a lemon.  I like WD HDDs but have had one used in this PC replaced twice under guarantee yet others have operated without any such problem.

HDD problems in PVRs can be due to a variety of reasons.  I had a "breakdown" in a 325 GB HDD in a Topfield 7100 very recently so replaced it only to have the same thing happen again a week later.  One suspect was the power supply but the caps showed no signs of failure so it went back to Sydney where a new motherboard solved the issue.  And yes, the original 325 HDD was fine and is now merrily recording without issue.

Maybe this is not helping you with your frustrations but HDD problems are a fact of life with any item involving computer or computer style control and any failure might have nothing to do with the HDD.  Unfortunately that includes PVRs, & DVDRs.  All we can hope is we have a well designed item which will give minimal difficulties.  Hope springs eternal!!

Good luck

John

garysch37, on Jul 9 2011, 03:48 AM, said:

@pgdownload:  Thanks very much for your reply.  I believe you and you're probably right with regard to my specific problem.  I also appreciate the PVR suggestion.  It's just that I received this DVR as a gift, so my home didn't benefit from my usual comprehensive research before buying any significant product.  Nevertheless, I hope you don't mind my exploring your answers a little bit.

A harddrive failing on my DVR only after a few months--whether it's because the drive is near full or not--tells me it's a shitty harddrive.  But I suspect it's not an isolated issue, but rather not only is it this entire harddrive model that's at fault, but all DVR/PVR harddrives might be shitty compared to PC harddrives, despite their very different uses.  My brother's DVR, of an entirely different make, has all kinds of other problems, many of which I share (but didn't mention in this thread).  And, again, buggy firmware I suspect is systemic as well;  just most people haven't filled up their drives as fast as I have (I do two things, program computers and watch TV;  yes, it's a sad life).

Nevertheless, you are right in that computers (mostly Windows) also have some issues when dealing with really huge files--actually, with or without lots of edits--though probably not as much as DVRs.  But, still, there are a lot of professional editors (including just about every Hollywood editor) using Apple's Avid or Final Cut Pro, that are editing files much much much bigger than a video recorder will ever see, with the number of edits thousands of times greater than on DVR/PVRs, that have no problem on a computer--albeit a very powerful computer.  Even amateur videographers have no problem on an average computer with Pinnacle, Premiere or iMovie.

Are we just talking about the difference in dollars?  Because most of the cost of a PC/Mac is in the "general purpose" category:  a computer can be any tool;  it just depends on software.  But I can take a regular half-decent 500GB harddrive for a computer, and burn just a tiny operating system and a very basic digital video editing program into firmware onto a motherboard , and get a pretty damn good DVR/PVR, for the same price as others.

What I'm confused about now is that it's not as if DVR/PVRs are new technology, since they've been around for some time.  And if you count them in as small versions of a computer, then the technology has been around for many decades.  The only explanation I can come up with is that digital video recording technology like DVR/PVR is only a temporary measure between VCRs and Home Theater PCs (Media Centres, as in a TV tuner card into a PC expansion slot, plus drivers and software to install on the computer).  But HTPCs never caught on with the mass public.  So now both DVR/PVR and HTPC are themselves only a temporary measure until all broadcast TV ceases to exist, to be replaced by cloud TV.  I can't wait.  To have 100% control over what I watch and when I want to watch it, where the choice of what to watch is the universal set of all big and small screen programming since their invention, all without advertising because I'll happily pay for it:  heaven on Earth!  But I digress.  My main point is that temporary measures will always suck, and by that I mean manufacturers will not put much effort into them.  Am I wrong?

I've also observed behavior by my DVR that tells me it is not entirely digital, which could be the reason for many of these problems.  For example, editing out commercials has not been as digitally precise as doing something similar on my PC with video editing software.  Specifically, even though I place my start and end points for the cut on my DVR precisely (i.e. on specific frames), it includes many neighbouring frames in the result, and in playback it freezes on one of those neighbouring frames for about 1 second.  That tells me it's not a digital edit, not entirely.  I'm not saying that computers (all digital) don't have thousands of forums filled with millions of complaints from its users, but perhaps if my DVR at least was all digital I wouldn't have some of the problems I'm having.  (Now that I've thought of this a little more, I'm wondering whether this end result of my edits is due to an anti-anti-advertising measure.)

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand this technology.  Thanks again for your help.

Gary

[garysch37]

Thanks, John, for both your calming explanation and encouragement.  /gary

[Tassie Devil]

garysch37, on Jul 12 2011, 11:44 AM, said:

Thanks, John, for both your calming explanation and encouragement.  /gary

Our pleasure - we are only too willing to help if we can.  With the proliferation of brands and models within them this it is often not easy, particularly when software bugs are causing problems that even the manufacturers have difficulty in solving.

John