38 replies to this topic

[alanh]

Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and Burma are going DVB-T2/MPEG-4.
Indonesia on its own has 238 million people.

AlanH

[MLXXX]

Alanh, I notice you have recently started creating new threads by way of an opening post with one or two sentences, but providing no reference whatsoever to your source(s) of information.

If you are going to act as a news digest service, it would help greatly if you quoted your source(s). That way if anyone was interested in following up for more detail, they could do so.

In my opinion, your opening post is almost meaningless. It provides no timeframe.

[GoForMoe]

I'd assumed Burma would have gone with ATSC to avoid giving DVB any publicity.

[jsmith]

I'm planning on converting myself to an mpeg-4 bit stream and shooting myself around the world just like in Lawnmower Man... should be great.

JSmith

[alanh]

MLXXX,
If you don't believe it, then find out for yourself

AlanH

[DrP]

.... and like grains of sand through the hour-glass, so are the day's of alanh's continual MPEG-4 pushing threads.  About the only thing more soap-operatic are the sheer number of threads where his 'predictions' have come and gone, like the long lost forgotten lover of the soapie doctor.

[Malich]

alanh, on 04 May 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

MLXXX,
If you don't believe it, then find out for yourself

AlanH

As you yourself often claim, it might be difficult or impossible for MLXXX (and others) to find out for himself. For example, your source might be

alanh, on 29 April 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

One you don't have access to

But, overall,

alanh, on 16 September 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:

I don't believe you cannot name a journal

[MLXXX]

alanh, on 04 May 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

MLXXX,
If you don't believe it, then find out for yourself

AlanH

It's not the point whether anyone should decide to accept a bald unattributed statement related to a recent decision of a foreign government, whether from a usually reliable forum member (of whom there are many) or from a usually unreliable forum member (of whom there are a few).

It's whether readers might wish to follow up on the matter for possible further detail. And it's a matter of good forum etiquette.

I note that webpages from a resource you yourself often seem to dismiss (Wikipedia) can be expected to include footnotes to sources.

Alanh, if your source of information of the decision of the foreign government authority is confidential, or subject to very strict copyright, perhaps you should not be making the claim at all. If the material is public, standard forum protocol is for the source to be disclosed. If you're not prepared to follow standard protocols, it would probablly be better for you not to create the new thread. Either do it properly or don't do it at all, I'd suggest.

In any case, haven't you already pushed the dvb-t2 and mpeg4-avc barrows more than enough? Who is surprised if a country introducing  a new digital terrestrial TV system chooses that modulation and that codec? Is it even worth starting a thread on the topic?  It would be more newsworthy to report that a country commencing digital TV transmissions had chosen mpeg2 for the video codec. Or had decided to adopt the emerging h265 codec.

Edited by MLXXX, 04 May 2012 - 05:21 PM.

[jsmith]

alanh, on 04 May 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

MLXXX,
If you don't believe it, then find out for yourself

AlanH

So are we just to believe you... can you at least link to some info?

JSmith

[bassett]

Here we go again, another mindless thread from the "all knowing AlanH"  That bears no reference for further reading, by way of a link
to your  "O So Secret Information"   I really don't care what 200 odd million  Indonesians are watching or doing for that matter, providing
there doing it in Indonesia, and not in my backyard.
As for Burma,  I have several  contacts on other forums from people in that part of the world, and there far too busy trying to feed
themselves, without wasting there time wondering what there Governments may or may not be doing with there TV media.  In fact most
people in that part of the world, are "Card Sharing" there programming via satellite.

About the only thing your attempts  at informative  posts  seem to do is boost your posting count. Which is probably nice for your ego..
But of very little use to anyone  or everyone else.   Do carry  on.

[alanh]

Bassett,
You may not care about what happens in these countries, however it will drastically reduce prices of these receivers.

The other posters
There is very little good forum ettiquette.

If you don't want to read how the world is progressing around us, and it was quite obvious in the title don't read the post.

AlanH

[Seak]

alanh, on 03 May 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and Burma are going DVB-T2/MPEG-4.
Indonesia on its own has 238 million people.

AlanH

So? What's that got to do with Australia? These countries are starting from a clean slate - they DON'T have an established DTV system.

I'm really interested in your explanation plan as to how Australia will move to DVB-T2/MPEG4 / time frame?

MPEG4 DTV has NO consumer benefits as broadcasters will 'adjust' MPEG4 video so that it delivers the SAME video quality as MPEG2!
Yes, they'll be able to squeeze extra channels into their 7MHz pipe, but that's about it.

As far as I'm concerned, DVB-T2 / MPEG4 is a long term (20+ years) plan.. and I'll leave it to a braver man than me to paint the technology landscape in 2032.

[MLXXX]

Still no link from alanh. Still no timeframe for the overseas countries he mentioned.

alanh, on 04 May 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

There is very little good forum ettiquette.

There is, alanh, even if you don't notice it. Everyday good forum etiquette includes:

1. Not starting a thread unless it is likely to add value.
2. Including a link when providing news type posts.
3. Reading posts carefully before replying.
4. Checking facts, before posting.

Most forum members observe all 4 of the above.

Edited by MLXXX, 04 May 2012 - 06:54 PM.

[Malich]

• Indonesia - this is old news (December 2011); Kominfo hasn't released any new information publicly since then; timeframe for full analogue switchoff is still 2018. (source: Kominfo)
  
• Singapore - trialled DVB-T2 in late 2011, SMDA report released in March 2012; DVB-T currently in use but expects to migrate to DVB-T2 by the time of full analogue switchoff (2015-2020) (source: Singapore Media Development Authority)
  
• Malaysia - short (4 day) DVB-T2 trial in 2011; expected to move straight from analogue to DVB-T2 but no current plans to begin digital transition (sources: DVB.org, APBU, Wikipedia - note that there is very little translated information beyond press releases).
  
• Thailand - DVB-T adopted, DVB-T2 trialled in January 2011; Expected (but unconfirmed) analogue transition in 2015-2020 i.e. the standard APBU / ASEAN timeline (sources: DVB.org, APBU - very little information from government / official sources).
  
• Burma - currently analogue (~92% population coverage) / DVB-T (50+% population coverage); trial of DVB-T2 in January 2012 (current?); plans to switch off analogue when digital takeup has reached 80%~90% (expected timeframe: 2025~2030) (sources: DVB.org, APBU - again, very little information beyond press releases available in English).

In short: most of this information is several months to a year or more old. I have access to most of the professional organisations and journals in this field, but some quick searches have revealed nothing newer than can be found publicly  (with the exception of some technical reports that have no new information re: plans & timeframes), so I have relied on easily-Googleable sources for this list.

Alan, you are most welcome to update this information if you can cite more up-to-date or reliable sources.

[MLXXX]

Actual details are revealed.  Thanks very much, Malich.

[alanh]

MLXXX,
Considering you did not read my original post correctly and I have used other sources than yours I intend to say nothing more.

AlanH

[MLXXX]

I, and others, cannot read your mind alanh. We can but read the words you type.

Thankfully, Malich came to the rescue with some helpful relevant details, for those interested. The situation differs from country to country,  as Malich's post #14 explains.

[DrP]

One can only hope that alanh keeps his promise, but I doubt it.

[Malich]

Seak, on 04 May 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

So? What's that got to do with Australia? These countries are starting from a clean slate - they DON'T have an established DTV system.

Seak raises an interesting point, and it's one that highlights why context and sources - and not just a bare statement or two, with maybe a vaguely-related link thrown in - are important.

Until last night, I pretty much assumed the same thing; that the countries listed were leapfrogging to DVB-T2. Turns out that's not the case - Burma, of all places, has existing DVB-T with respectable coverage and a 'plan' to convert to DVB-T2. Singapore is effectively 100% DVB-T coverage (including, to keep alan happy, a HD-only channel using H.264 in DVB-T streams) and plans to do a reasonably fast changeover to DVB-T2 in a few years, but due to its size & high population density it's something of a special case.

The others - Indonesia, Malaysia, and Thailand; ones you might've thought would have been quite advanced compared to, say, Burma - have never really adopted digital terrestrial TV, and so effectively are starting from a clean slate.

[alanh]

"Our Near Neighbours Are Taking Up Dvb-T2/mpeg-4" makes no reference to what they have now or to when they will start.

The importance to us is that countries with such large populations and at least one major TV manufacturing plant will drive down prices of this type of receiver.

It is also showing that countries in the "third world" are taking this technology on. What are we doing?

AlanH

[MLXXX]

You were right, DrP.

[nbound]

alanh, on 05 May 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

"Our Near Neighbours Are Taking Up Dvb-T2/mpeg-4" makes no reference to what they have now or to when they will start.

And that was part of the issue, that statement is useless without context. eg. Burma by 2025-2030 - no big deal, we will probably be T2/MPEG4 [or better] by then too!

alanh, on 05 May 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

The importance to us is that countries with such large populations and at least one major TV manufacturing plant will drive down prices of this type of receiver.

That depends on how they are planning it, and whether their are any delays. But T2 receivers are reasonably cheap (from a first world perspective) already are they not?

alanh, on 05 May 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

It is also showing that countries in the "third world" are taking this technology on. What are we doing?

We started much earlier than the third world on DVB-T, its not a fair comparison by any means, it may even be better for us to consider skipping T2, and jumping straight to DVB-T3 when its been created. In the mean time the best option is we slowly move to MPEG4 using DVB-T - though this is pretty much a given asking anyone (timeframe appears to be the only variable).

Edited by nbound, 05 May 2012 - 10:14 AM.

[Malich]

alanh, on 05 May 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

The importance to us is that countries with such large populations and at least one major TV manufacturing plant will drive down prices of this type of receiver.

If that's the main thrust of your argument, then it doesn't matter whether Australia adopts DVB-T2 or not. The standard is backwards-compatible; DVB-T2 receivers will decode DVB-T; so by remaining DVB-T Australia wins both ways - cheaper sets for consumers, and no additional capital outlay for broadcasters. And all without any additional government intervention!

It's not often you see a win-win-win scenario...

[DrP]

MLXXX, on 05 May 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

You were right, DrP.

Sometimes I wish I wasn't.

[bassett]

alanh, on 04 May 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Bassett,
You may not care about what happens in these countries, however it will drastically reduce prices of these receivers.

And how pray tell is that relevant to our market. You make a blind statement, then don't provide details,  "makes, model numbers"
That might just be to hard for you..
It's a bit like saying Petrol's  the same price in  UAE  as  it is here in Australia

alanh, on 05 May 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

MLXXX,
Considering you did not read my original post correctly and I have used other sources than yours I intend to say nothing more.
AlanH

Can we hold you to that, and does it come with a warranty