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Digitalnow Quad Dvb-t Tuner Card


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#1 renura

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 09:12 PM

Hi Guys,

As some of you might know already, we will be releasing a Quad (4) HDTV Tuner Card in the next couple of weeks.

This is very pleasing for me personally, as I have spent several years trying to get this developed, I hope those of you who are interested in PC-based Digital TV solution will find this as an exciting product as I am.

Some of the detail about the card are:
  • 4x DVTB Tuners supporting HDTV (and SDTV of course)
  • Support for FM Radio
  • Support for Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB+)
  • Single RF input to feed all four tuners
  • Low profile form factor for use in low profile PC cases.
  • PCI-Express interface

We will be posting full specs and pictures on our website soon, in the meantime If anyone has got any specific questions, I would be happy to answer them.

Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to thank all those that helped with the beta testing of this great card.

Cheers

Renura

#2 myrantz

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 09:48 PM

View Postrenura, on Aug 18 2010, 07:12 PM, said:

We will be posting full specs and pictures on our website soon, in the meantime If anyone has got any specific questions, I would be happy to answer them.
That'd be interesting.. ATM I have 5 tuners, and really it's a mess... A quad tuner (that does everything) will be nice...

Hopefully there'd be linux support?

#3 renura

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:04 AM

View Posttreblid, on Aug 18 2010, 09:48 PM, said:

That'd be interesting.. ATM I have 5 tuners, and really it's a mess... A quad tuner (that does everything) will be nice...

Hopefully there'd be linux support?
The chipset is supported under Linux (for DVB-T) already, the DAB+ is the same as the Dabby, will have to wait for Leadtek to provide support.

#4 drubie

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 09:49 AM

Sounds kinda cool, but

- emmachizzit?
- who out there could possibly find 4 things on FTA television that they want to watch simultaneously?

I struggle to find 1 thing to watch on there at any one time, finding 4 would be a far more impressive feat than the card itself, as cool as it sounds.

#5 50MXE20

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 09:53 AM

View Postdrubie, on Aug 19 2010, 07:49 AM, said:

Sounds kinda cool, but

- emmachizzit?
- who out there could possibly find 4 things on FTA television that they want to watch simultaneously?

I struggle to find 1 thing to watch on there at any one time, finding 4 would be a far more impressive feat than the card itself, as cool as it sounds.
How about watching one and recording three others.

Especially with overlapping times.

#6 renura

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 10:00 AM

View Post50MXE20, on Aug 19 2010, 09:53 AM, said:

How about watching one and recording three others.

Especially with overlapping times.
OR, listening to DAB+ radio with one and recording with the others, OR streaming 4 different channels to 4 different networked areas in the home, etc? :)

#7 myrantz

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 10:09 AM

View Postdrubie, on Aug 19 2010, 07:49 AM, said:

Sounds kinda cool, but

- emmachizzit?
- who out there could possibly find 4 things on FTA television that they want to watch simultaneously?
Hee hee.. Prob me... I'm still about 3 months back on recordings (was 6 months behind initially)...

View Postdrubie, on Aug 19 2010, 07:49 AM, said:

I struggle to find 1 thing to watch on there at any one time, finding 4 would be a far more impressive feat than the card itself, as cool as it sounds.
I think my MythTV server records 10-20+ shows daily.. :ninja: Just recording, doesn't really mean I'd be watching it... :P

For me it's more fun to get the system purring like a cat than the show itself...

View Postrenura, on Aug 19 2010, 08:00 AM, said:

OR, listening to DAB+ radio with one and recording with the others, OR streaming 4 different channels to 4 different networked areas in the home, etc? :)
The sky's the limit I guess... Two more questions... Are they USB tuners?  Price?

#8 renura

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 10:31 AM

View Posttreblid, on Aug 19 2010, 10:09 AM, said:

Hee hee.. Prob me... I'm still about 3 months back on recordings (was 6 months behind initially)...


I think my MythTV server records 10-20+ shows daily.. :ninja: Just recording, doesn't really mean I'd be watching it... :P

For me it's more fun to get the system purring like a cat than the show itself...


The sky's the limit I guess... Two more questions... Are they USB tuners?  Price?
What do you think would be a fair price?

#9 myrantz

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 10:46 AM

View Postrenura, on Aug 19 2010, 08:31 AM, said:

What do you think would be a fair price?
Sounds like I'm street negotiating in Asia.. :lol: No idea TBH... Don't even know how much tuners cost now....

Wild guessing, $200-$250?  :unsure:  :unsure:

#10 renura

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 11:00 AM

View Posttreblid, on Aug 19 2010, 10:46 AM, said:

Sounds like I'm street negotiating in Asia.. :lol: No idea TBH... Don't even know how much tuners cost now....

Wild guessing, $200-$250?  :unsure:  :unsure:
You will be pleased to know that my target is below $200 delivered :)

#11 myrantz

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 11:14 AM

View Postrenura, on Aug 19 2010, 09:00 AM, said:

You will be pleased to know that my target is below $200 delivered :)
I'm so out of touch... Prices have certainly dropped significantly  :huh: ....

Don't really need one, but I think I will be buying one if indeed you can do it at that price.. Of coz has to double check if I have a available free PCI-e slot first though.. :lol:

When will it be available?

#12 renura

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 01:34 PM

View Posttreblid, on Aug 19 2010, 11:14 AM, said:

When will it be available?
Mid September

#13 drubie

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 01:51 PM

View Posttreblid, on Aug 19 2010, 10:09 AM, said:

I think my MythTV server records 10-20+ shows daily.. :ninja: Just recording, doesn't really mean I'd be watching it... :P

For me it's more fun to get the system purring like a cat than the show itself...

OK, I can understand it as a hobby, but doesn't having a 4 tuner card that works kind of take the fun out of the hobby side?

If it's a hobby, shouldn't it be a struggle with open source drivers, incompatible firmware and endless trawling through internet forums looking for config settings?

:lol:

...but the quoted price of $200 is pretty wild when you can buy a USB tuner for under $10 delivered.  I could buy 20 tuners, put 5 in the drawer for spares, assume 5 won't work at all, and have a 10 tuner box and still be ahead.  Of course, there won't be DAB+ but radio is for cars.

I'm not having a go at Renura - good on him, but it seems like a niche of a niche market.

#14 Puss in Books

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 02:07 PM

View Postdrubie, on Aug 19 2010, 09:49 AM, said:

I struggle to find 1 thing to watch on there at any one time, finding 4 would be a far more impressive feat than the card itself, as cool as it sounds.
I quite regularly have 3 things to record at the same time, especially when you take into account schedule overlaps and buffers.  

View Postdrubie, on Aug 19 2010, 01:51 PM, said:

...but the quoted price of $200 is pretty wild when you can buy a USB tuner for under $10 delivered.  I could buy 20 tuners, put 5 in the drawer for spares, assume 5 won't work at all, and have a 10 tuner box and still be ahead.
Cheapest USB tuner I have seen is about $30 bucks, but that aside, you would still have the question the practicality of 4 USB tuners plugged into the back of a PC, let alone 10.

#15 myrantz

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 02:11 PM

View Postdrubie, on Aug 19 2010, 11:51 AM, said:

OK, I can understand it as a hobby, but doesn't having a 4 tuner card that works kind of take the fun out of the hobby side?

If it's a hobby, shouldn't it be a struggle with open source drivers, incompatible firmware and endless trawling through internet forums looking for config settings?

:lol:
That's sounds like a hobby for people who just want to break things... :lol: My hobby is more about construction and pushing limits, and making 'em better/smoother.. So far so good... :P

View Postdrubie, on Aug 19 2010, 11:51 AM, said:

...but the quoted price of $200 is pretty wild when you can buy a USB tuner for under $10 delivered.  I could buy 20 tuners, put 5 in the drawer for spares, assume 5 won't work at all, and have a 10 tuner box and still be ahead.  Of course, there won't be DAB+ but radio is for cars.
Kindda jump the gun a tad? He only says under $200, you can assume that to mean $199.99, but for all we know the price may be $20?? :P

I like USB tuners, but that's in the context of a USB device under the OS (not a real physical USB dongle as it's a huge mess for me).

View Postdrubie, on Aug 19 2010, 11:51 AM, said:

I'm not having a go at Renura - good on him, but it seems like a niche of a niche market.
:mellow: But DVB-T tuners and HTPC are always niche markets..

#16 50MXE20

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 02:13 PM

View Postvjp, on Aug 19 2010, 12:07 PM, said:

Cheapest USB tuner I have seen is about $30 bucks, but that aside, you would still have the question the practicality of 4 USB tuners plugged into the back of a PC, let alone 10.
I agree and what kind of quality does one get at the price bracket.

#17 drubie

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 03:21 PM

View Post50MXE20, on Aug 19 2010, 02:13 PM, said:

I agree and what kind of quality does one get at the price bracket.

? It's a plastic case, two chips and a usb plug.  There isn't any room for quality.

Ebay DVB tuner $2.95  + $7.35 shipping

I bought two of these last week - they work fine.  I tried them on the kids netbooks (where they will live) and in the back of the old NSLU2 NAS box which required a touch of hackery but otherwise fine.  The sticks come with BlazeHDTV on a mini cd, a crappy little antenna and a remote.  They rock.

I mean - want 4 people watching 4 different things?  Why not just distribute the load around your network - there's few excuses not to buy kids their own netbook now.

As I said in the other thread, the only real problem is the uncertainty of which chipset you'll get (they seem to vary) but given I paid well over $200 for a DVICO HDTVFusion many years ago and was never really happy with it, I'm pretty stoked with $10 USB sticks.

#18 myrantz

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 03:53 PM

View Postdrubie, on Aug 19 2010, 01:21 PM, said:

? It's a plastic case, two chips and a usb plug.  There isn't any room for quality.

Ebay DVB tuner $2.95  + $7.35 shipping
Not a bad price...

View Postdrubie, on Aug 19 2010, 01:21 PM, said:

As I said in the other thread, the only real problem is the uncertainty of which chipset you'll get (they seem to vary) but given I paid well over $200 for a DVICO HDTVFusion many years ago and was never really happy with it, I'm pretty stoked with $10 USB sticks.
I guess that $10 will suit others...

The Quad tuner card will suit me better (actually if it's a pent tuner it will be perfect)... It's a niche^2 card... All the more for me to get it coz I may never never be able to get one again in the future.. :lol: Who knows how limited this card will be?

The less people want it the better, meaning I can just order without fear of having to wait for stock etc.

But then again I do need to check if I have a free PCI-e slot (is this x1 or x16?)

#19 alanh

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 04:29 PM

renura,
The 4 tuner card does it support the following;
MPEG-4
DVB-T2
MHEG-5?

Thanks,

AlanH

#20 Puss in Books

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 04:29 PM

View Postdrubie, on Aug 19 2010, 03:21 PM, said:

I mean - want 4 people watching 4 different things?  Why not just distribute the load around your network - there's few excuses not to buy kids their own netbook now.
I think you miss the point of using 4 tuners.  It is not about having 4 people watching 4 different things at the same time.  Its about recording up to 4 different things at the same time so that one (or more) persons can watch later at their own leisure.  Even if you USB tuners cost $10, it will be cheaper to have a more expensive 4-tuner card in one PC than 4 USB tuners across 4 netbooks.

#21 drubie

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 04:35 PM

View Postvjp, on Aug 19 2010, 04:29 PM, said:

I think you miss the point of using 4 tuners.  It is not about having 4 people watching 4 different things at the same time.  Its about recording up to 4 different things at the same time so that one (or more) persons can watch later at their own leisure.  Even if you USB tuners cost $10, it will be cheaper to have a more expensive 4-tuner card in one PC than 4 USB tuners across 4 netbooks.

Well, true, but I'm the idiot that built a ghetto PVR out of a second hand NSLU2, Debian and $30 USB stick.

I think a Sheevaplug, two USB 2.0 hubs, 12 $10 USB tuners, a 2TB drive and a shedload of coax and you'd have ample tuners to literally record everything transmitted, all the time, for about $400, running on 10 watts.

It would be ugly though.

#22 myrantz

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 04:41 PM

View Postdrubie, on Aug 19 2010, 02:35 PM, said:

I think a Sheevaplug, two USB 2.0 hubs, 12 $10 USB tuners, a 2TB drive and a shedload of coax and you'd have ample tuners to literally record everything transmitted, all the time, for about $400, running on 10 watts.
Like that idea... :)

It's just the shedload of coax... RG6 quadsheild don't flex well.. and the weight can pull out the USB dongle (it did for me).. I have 3 USB tuners in dongle form (and 2 USB tuner via a PCI card).... The PCI card is easy to manage. The 3 USB tuners is PITA as I can accidentally knock it loose. And when one came out, everything else falls (USB dominoes  :rolleyes: )

#23 alanh

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 04:44 PM

For those who don't appear to understand
1. DAB+ digital radio is on board so that you can listen to a huge number of local (to state mainland capitals) radio stations. See www.digitalradioplus.com.au. The Dig, Jazz and the pair of SBS radio channels on DVB-T is not the same.

2. Currently there is two or three DAB+ transmitters in state mainland capital cities. I assume that 2 or 3 of those tuners could be used to record all digital radio stations simultaneously.

3. If not listening to the radio, then you may be able to record 4 out of the 5 networks simultaneously, I don't know if though you could record more than one program from each network in this mix. I assume it will be limited by the speed of the hard disk and the processing speeds in the computer.

4. Multiple USB connections will not be fast enough.

5. If you want to use multiple cheap USB receivers, most supplied antennas are inadequate so you will need multiple antenna feeds.

6. Having all the tuners in the one card in a single computer makes it easier to programming record.

AlanH

#24 DrP

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 04:57 PM

This card consists of four USB devices, connected via a VIA USB bridge (USB2 mode, each tuner has a USB port dedicated to it), that demodulate DVB-t and produce a transport stream.

The tuners operate underneath the layer at which MPEG-4 and MHEG-5 appear so these two aspects of the question posed are not relevant to the device at all.  It is relevant to any software that is used to view programming with, but given the large scope of software out there, 'how long is a piece of string'.  DNTV-LIVE (I'm assuming renura will offer this as part of a bundle) does not appear to support MHEG-5 but given the almost total lack of MHEG-5 applets, apart from the freeview guide which is proprietary and licenced, this is of little consequence.  DNTV-Live, if supplied with a MPEG-4 AVC decoder (ffdshow for instance) would be able to render MPEG-4 AVC video etc.  At the moment, this too is of little consquence as there is no MPEG-4 AVC content transmitted at the moment.  MPEG-2 still rules the roost of Australian FTA television.

DAB+ support is not so much 'onboard' as entirely 'off board'.  The DAB+ side of things appears to be entirely implemented in the supplied radio application, with the tuners involvment being limited to providing a transport stream to the application.  I'm not sure about FM reception, but it wouldn't at all surprise me to discover that FM too is demodulated entirely in software with the tuners outputting raw samples of the spectrum rather than a transport stream.  Its also possible that the DSPs do FM demodulation or that there is even an actual FM demodulator section in the tuner with the resulting audio being sampled and provided as PCM to the supplied application.

As for DVB-T2, the DSP code embedded in the driver only appears to support DVB-T.  Of course, if sufficient motivation were provided at the appropriate time, it may well be revealed that the DSP for each 'tuner' has sufficient resources to demodulate DVB-T2 and that DSP code capable of such has been provided by realtek.

For multiple program recording, most recording software isolates the user from the underlying receiver configuration.  It is no more difficult to set a program, such as 'TV Scheduler Pro' or one of its derivatives, to record from 4 completely separate devices than it is to set it to record from a single device that has multiple receivers in it.  renura supplies DNTV-Live and his variant of TV Scheduler, both of which operate in the manner described, ie the user doesn't need to know what lies beneath.



On other issues raised, a single USB2 (USB based DVB-t receivers are essentially exclusively USB2 capable) port is capable of carrying 480 megabits/sec or to put it another way, a single USB2 port can carry 20 x 24Mbit DVB-t transport streams.  If that isn't sufficient capacity I'm afraid I don't know what would be.  USB3, for what its worth, raises the bar to 5 gigabits/sec.

Recording every single DVB-t transmission in a given region would require at most 6 devices and the sum bit rate (144MBit/sec) of this is well within even a modest PC's capabilities (hard disks these days can sustain 700Mbit/sec).  Sifting PIDs relevant to each program and outputting to separate files takes very little CPU time too.  In fact, as an experiement I had an older spare PC doing just this.  It had 4 USB2 tuners and a single PCI tuner card splitting and dumping all programs (ie ABC1, 2, 3, HD, SBS1, 2, HD, 7TWO, 7 SD, 7HD etc) without any problems at all.

Edited by DrP, 20 August 2010 - 06:27 AM.


#25 myrantz

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 05:05 PM

View PostDrP, on Aug 19 2010, 02:57 PM, said:

This card consists of four USB devices, connected via a VIA USB bridge (USB2 mode, each tuner has a USB port dedicated to it), that demodulate DVB-t and produce a transport stream.
Cool.. That's all I need to know really.. :P (USB = chance of running it under a VM)...