102 replies to this topic

[Foggy]

Quite often in the Projector Forum, people ask about the general consensus towards purchasing a projector from ebay or an international site such as PriceJapan. Needlesstosay, there are risks associated with both, but the ones relating to ebay don't seem to be as well understood. This thread will focus on buying projection systems from ebay, and some warning signs that you should look out for.  I don't claim to be an expert in such matters, this thread is just a collection of things that I have gleaned over the years, and may not be comprehensive…. it might not even be totally accurate!   I invite others to add their experience to this thread (without naming names), and I'll endeavour to update this original post to adequately summarise the collective knowledge.

  My motivation to do this is to open your eyes and mind to some of the dubious practices that occur on ebay. Based on these warnings, it will be up to you to assess each particular option and/or seller on their own merits. Don't be complacent, it does happen in Australia, even when the seller appears very professional and above board, with a bricks & mortar showroom!

  100% positive feedback
When a seller has hundreds of positive feedbacks from buyers and sellers, we generally get a comforting feeling that we are dealing with a reputable seller, but this may not necessarily be the case. It is possible to build such a rating using some sly techniques, here is one that I have observed;

• Create multiple accounts.
  
• Create a bunch of low value auctions ($0.99) for a worthless product like a PDF file on "Finding your true self" under each account with a "Buy It Now" option. Make sure the auctions are Private to cover your tracks.
  
• Have each account bid & buy items from the other accounts.
  
• Both Buying & Selling accounts leave positive feedback for each other.
  
• The seller then comes back      and leaves an additional "comment" on the feedback to pretend it was a big      ticket item…. for example:
  Reply by dodgyseller (13-Sep-07 12:34)
  PANASONIC PT-AX100 PT-AX100E PROJECTOR NEW RRP $3000
  
• Because the auction was private, you don't see the true price, nor the link to the actual auction, so most people assume that this is what was actually sold!

  In recent times, people have developed programs and scripts to automate much of the drudgery to the above procedure.

    Bribery for good IMMEDIATE feedback.
I've seen a particular Australian seller offer inducements (such as a free cable) to customers and directly ask for quick positive feedback in return. The reason for this is that as a buyer, once you've left your feedback, there's no facility to go back and edit it if you change your mind.

  This becomes especially important if the seller has misrepresented the product. The excitement of the new arrival usually gets the better of most people, and they oblige by getting online an adding positive feedback just because the product has been delivered. It's often a while later, e.g. when they go to register the product for warranty and realise that it's not an Australian sourced projector when they were told that it was, that they wish they could go back and edit their feedback….but alas, it's too late.

Therefore, you should take extra care if you see a lot of private auctions in the feedback history, particularly in their early days of trading. They will make excuses like "we do it to protect you from dodgy offers from other sellers from China", but it's all bollocks.... you now know the real reason for it.

Grey Market imports
You should always assume that any new projector you buy on ebay is a "grey market" import unless the seller categorically states that the projector is sourced from the Australian distributor. Sometimes, the assurance from the seller can be worded ambiguously to imply that it is a locally sourced unit, but they are not. These sellers are masters of deception, beware of phrases like:

• "Yes, it's the Australian model" (real meaning: it's the same model sold worldwide, so on specs, it's the Australian model)
  
• "Yes, it comes with 12 months warranty" (real meaning: We'll take responsibility for repairing it... and if you believe that, then you deserve to buy it)
  
• "We are an official BenQ reseller" (real meaning: we have an account with BenQ Australia for PC stuff, but I didn't say the projector was bought through them, did I?)

  Once again, I ask that no one mentions the name of any potential culprits in this thread, as I don't want to see it indiscriminately deleted because of threats of litigation, whether they be real or not.

Edited by Foggy, 18 September 2007 - 02:01 PM.

[Franin]

Foggy, on Sep 15 2007, 10:44 PM, said:

Quite often in the Projector Forum, people ask about the general consensus towards purchasing a projector from ebay or an international site such as PriceJapan. Needlesstosay, there are risks associated with both, but the ones relating to ebay don’t seem to be as well understood. This thread will focus on buying projection systems from ebay, and some warning signs that you should look out for.  I don’t claim to be an expert in such matters, this thread is just a collection of things that I have gleaned over the years, and may not be comprehensive…. it might not even be totally accurate!   I invite others to add their experience to this thread (without naming names), and I’ll endeavour to update this original post to adequately summarise the collective knowledge.

  My motivation to do this is to open your eyes and mind to some of the dubious practices that occur on ebay. Based on these warnings, it will be up to you to assess each particular option and/or seller on their own merits. Don’t be complacent, it does happen in Australia, even when the seller appears very professional and above board, with a showroom!

  100% positive feedback
When a seller has hundreds of positive feedbacks from buyers and sellers, we generally get a comforting feeling that we are dealing with a reputable seller, but this may not necessarily be the case. It is possible to build such a rating using some sly techniques, namely;

  ·        Create multiple (possibly hundreds of) accounts.

  ·        Create a bunch of low value auctions ($0.99) for a worthless product like a PDF file on “Finding your true self” under each account with a “Buy It Now” option. Make the auctions are Private to cover your tracks.

  ·        Have each account bid & buy items from the other accounts.

  ·        Both Buying & Selling accounts leave positive feedback for each other.

  

• The seller then comes back      and leaves an additional “comment” on the feedback to pretend it was a big      ticket item…. for example:
        Reply by dodgyseller (13-Sep-07 12:34)
        PANASONIC PT-AX100 PT-AX100E PROJECTOR NEW RRP $3000

  ·        Because the auction was private, you don’t see the true price, nor the link to the actual auction, so most people assume that this is what was actually sold!

  In recent times, people have developed programs and scripts to automate much of the drudgery to the procedure.

    Bribery for good IMMEDIATE feedback.
I’ve seen a particular Australian seller offer inducements (such as a free cable) to customers and directly ask for quick positive feedback in return. The reason for this is that as a buyer, once you’ve left your feedback, there’s no facility to go back and edit it if you change your mind.

  This becomes especially important if the seller has misrepresented the product. The excitement of the new arrival usually gets the better of most people, and they oblige by getting online an adding positive feedback just because the product has been delivered. It’s often a while later, e.g. when they go to register the product for warranty and realise that it’s not an Australian sourced projector when they were told that it was, that they wish they could go back and edit their feedback….but alas, it’s too late.

  Once again, I ask that no one mentions the name of any potential culprits in this thread, as I don’t want to see it indiscriminately deleted because of threats of litigation, whether they be real or not.

Thankyou Foggy,personally I don't think i can buy a projector or really anything now from E-bay.But thats great mate, you've definetley opened my eyes.

[jokiin]

Foggy, on Sep 16 2007, 12:44 AM, said:

My motivation to do this is to open your eyes and mind to some of the dubious practices that occur on ebay.

I don't know how many times I've heard Ebay horror stories which when you look at them rationally are obvious that they are not on the level only to realise that there are a lot of people out there that don't have the sixth sense, common sense

[nightbreed]

Great read Foggy! It certainly opens ones eyes.

[dan76n]

Foggy, on Sep 16 2007, 12:44 AM, said:

100% positive feedback
When a seller has hundreds of positive feedbacks from buyers and sellers, we generally get a comforting feeling that we are dealing with a reputable seller, but this may not necessarily be the case. It is possible to build such a rating using some sly techniques, here is one that I have observed;

• Create multiple (possibly hundreds of) accounts.
  
• Create a bunch of low value auctions ($0.99) for a worthless product like a PDF file on "Finding your true self" under each account with a "Buy It Now" option. Make sure the auctions are Private to cover your tracks.
  
• Have each account bid & buy items from the other accounts.
  
• Both Buying & Selling accounts leave positive feedback for each other.
  
• The seller then comes back      and leaves an additional "comment" on the feedback to pretend it was a big      ticket item…. for example:
  Reply by dodgyseller (13-Sep-07 12:34)
  PANASONIC PT-AX100 PT-AX100E PROJECTOR NEW RRP $3000
  
• Because the auction was private, you don't see the true price, nor the link to the actual auction, so most people assume that this is what was actually sold!

  In recent times, people have developed programs and scripts to automate much of the drudgery to the above procedure.

so hypothetically If you were to open 100s of accounts yourself and bid on these low value auctions, leaving negative feedback it would balance out?
you could be the Ebay vigilante....

[voicecoils]

dan76n, on Sep 16 2007, 10:40 AM, said:

so hypothetically If you were to open 100s of accounts yourself and bid on these low value auctions, leaving negative feedback it would balance out?
you could be the Ebay vigilante....

There are eBay vigilantes out there.  

My GF tried to sell a ticket for a concert she legitimately couldn't attend and someone intentionally bid the auction up to a ridiculous price, then refused to pay on the grounds that she was "destroying Rock and Roll" or something to that effect.  We looked at other auctions and he was bidding, sniping, and winning all of them.

eBay is far from a perfect system, but I'm generally cautious and for the most part I've had positive experiences.

Great guide Foggy btw !!!

Edited by voicecoils, 16 September 2007 - 11:07 AM.

[beejay76]

I bid on eBay for a couple of Stewart Screens. On each occasion I asked the seller for the serial number of the screen, and they either didn't tell me, or gave me a fake number (if you know how Stewart code their serial numbers you'll know if it's fake or not). The screen I ended up buying through eBay, which was a new screen I ordered from a Stewart dealer, they provided me with the contact details of their account manager at the factory. So I was able to follow that up and they were legitimate. So do a little homework on your eBay dealings and you shouldn't get burnt.

[Foggy]

Thanks to the forum mods for pinning this thread as a "Sticky".

If anyone has anything to add, then please post it here, and I'll be happy to add/modify the original post as appropriate.

[VISUAL AID]

Even though i agree with many of the comments on this thread by foggy, as an ebay seller for many years, i think it is good to have more than one point of view. Ebay is a great place to shop and save money with a little care but not paranoia  

1. Create a bunch of low value auctions ($0.99) for a worthless product like a PDF file on "Finding your true self" under each account with a "Buy It Now" option. Make sure the auctions are Private to cover your tracks.
Correct Take a look at  the member leaving feedback; if they have a good rating and have bought items from many sellers, they are generally authentic. Remember ebay sellers only need around a 20 point positive score with a 100% feedback rating to sell big priced items.They will have no need to work day and night for 100s and 100s and 100s of fake ratings. Think about it. And what about all the listing fees that will need to be paid for all the of the sales.

2. Create multiple (possibly hundreds of) accounts
You need  a credit card every time you join ebay, its compulsory now. You even need to type in the credit card's ccv number as well.(security number)
So you would need to have hundreds of credit cards and ccv numbers? What a job. why do this when you can start selling on eBay from day one with a 100% rating and build it up in a few months. Again these tactics are easy to see and are not the tactic of long term sellers.

3. The seller then comes back  and leaves an additional "comment" on the feedback to pretend it was a big ticket item…. for example  PANASONIC PT-AX100.Because the auction was private, you don't see the true price, nor the link to the actual auction, so most people assume that this is what was actually sold!
Could be done. Remember you can email the member linked to a sale and ask them what they have bought, this is easy because their user name will always be present.(even private sales still have the user name of the buyer linked to the feedback) Members will be happy to let you know and may give recommendations to put you at ease.

4. Create a bunch of low value auctions ($0.99) for a worthless product like a PDF file on "Finding your true self" under each account with a "Buy It Now" option. Make sure the auctions are Private to cover your tracks.
True this can be achieved but only if it is only short term, very short term. There would be no need to carry this on after say 20  feedbacks as you will get the same result in sales

5.Both Buying & Selling accounts leave positive feedback for each other[/i]
Easy to pick as you will see multiple feedbacks from the same person or persons, also their feedback score will be low. Again only used in the short run by some sellers to start their business and you can pick them easy. It does not last long.

6. I’ve seen a particular Australian seller offer inducements (such as a free cable) to customers and directly ask for quickpositive feedback in return
This is the funniest comment, the old cable trick  
EBay members can be a tough mob, and rightfully expect fast delivery and items to be in perfect condition as described . Also if a seller was to sell a high priced item valued at over $1000, do you seriously think they will be seduced by a cable. Foggy you need to stop thinking people are naive. It may work once or twice but in the end they leave feedback when they are happy to do so. Remember Police, Doctors, lawyers, Accountants and even judges purchase from eBay. Some probably have a higher IQ than me and you combined.

7. This becomes especially important if the seller has misrepresented the product. The excitement of the new arrival usually gets the better of most people, and they oblige by getting online an adding positive feedback just because the product has been delivered.
As any ebay seller will let you know, only approx 35% of members leave feedback. Around 20% straight away. the remaining 15% after a few weeks of product use. 65% do not  leave feedback straight away. So if a member is not happy with an item in the end, they will let you know by leaving feedback at anytime within 3 months.(fact)

8. Don't be complacent, it does happen in Australia, even when the seller appears very professional and above board, with a bricks & mortar showroom!
We use to complain about sellers having low feedback or negative feedback. Then it was the fact you could not call them. Next thing was watch out they only have a mobile number!!. Now it’s, they have a shop, land line and 100s or 1000s of positive feedback watch out!!   
It costs tens of thousands of dollars to setup showrooms and a shop. (fact) You also have nowhere to hide from anyone. Ebay members can visit and pay on the spot. They can also come back with 20 brothers: wacko:  if they are unhappy. If would hardly be worth doing all this if you had something to hide? If the seller has a shop address, then as a buyer i can resolve an issue face to face. (Now that is peace of mind)


9. Yes, it comes with 12 months warranty" (real meaning: We'll take responsibility for repairing it... and if you believe that, then you deserve to buy it)

Lastly i would like to put a positive spin on this thread. Ebay is a positive place to buy and sell if you take precautions. Bear in mind that the items for sale are generally well below retail.(positive) So when this occurs something needs to give Direct warranty is not always going to be available. Items exactly the same as models sold in Australia are imported at lower prices (fact). You have a choice    . Example : save $500 to $1000 or get direct warranty. Now some sellers really wants to grow their business and do offer third party warranty’s. This is often called “BACK TO BASE” warranty. When an item needs to be repaired you can send the product to their business for repair or drop it of if they have a shop/showroom. Make sure that you receive this in writing with a tax invoice. If the seller would like to keep his customers coming back and wants to grow his business, he will honour this warranty. The seller will always have warranty because he has the original receipt. It is possible to get an item at an excellent price with warranty. Thousands of eBay sellers honour third party warranty in Australia and worldwide, just do your homework.

To feel more comfortable with a third party warranty makes sure the seller has the following. Without the following i would not pay much respect to it being honoured.

1. ABN/ACN
2 Land Line
3. Shop/showroom/ business address.
4. Selling on eBay for many years
5. Staff members
6. Call and speak with the owner of the business. (Ask about the warranty terms and be frank)
7. Pick up ok.
8. 100s to 1000s of feedback at 98% and above


Ebay sellers with a very high positive feedback rating have worked hard to achieve this and i mean very hard!!!. It takes very hard work and years of selling. In a shop retail situation you can tell the customer to leave and deny a refund. On eBay this is not possible as they can leave bad feedback.  I have been selling on eBay since 2000  and have honoured 100s of warranty claims. I have also refunded any product that a customer was not 100% happy with. Customers can bid on another item the same as the first if they are not happy. They can leave you feedback anytime within 3 month and when i first started it was 9 months. . They can even visit your shop and complain.  Only sellers know how low their margins are and how hard it is to build a business on eBay. To leave your job and offer a bricks & mortar showroom with the small margins eBay items offer after tax/gst/ebay fees/payal fees, is hard work. But with persistence and many years of struggle you can achieve your dreams.  Foggy you added no positivity to this thread and are so quick to shot down eBay sellers in general.Even though your points are good, an underlining motive i feel is present. Anyhow, do not want to name my business here as this is not an Advertising ploy and so many times on this forum i see new member’s ridiculed or disrespected because they do not go with the flow of the thread. I would like to be a part of this forum and will never name a business or try to damage one's reputation as there is always two sides to a coin and uderstand the hard work involved in smalll business.  I would like to, however, offer an open invitation to any member who would like to visit our showroom and demo any projector model side by side. We are an Authorised Australian seller of many products like Benq Projectors and can back this up with a letter from Benq if needed. We also sell items covered by a third party warranty back to base (fact).  Any advice on how to improve products we sell or new products we can hold, i would be happy to hear in store directly as well. I would formally like to invite foggy to our business as i think we could become good friends and offer each other great advice. We have similar passions.
PM.
Thanks for your ear.

Edited by DTV Forum Mod, 18 September 2007 - 02:58 PM.

[Foggy]

Hi Visual Aid, and thanks for your comments. This thread was not intended to imply that all ebay sellers are bad, but to warn members of some of the tricks that are being employed by a few sellers in Australia. My reasons for posting it are that a number of forum members have contacted me offline with their tales of woe, and it angers me that this/these seller(s) continue to get away with it and then have the gall to threaten legal action when they are exposed.

The biggest warning sign is the use of PRIVATE AUCTIONS. If a seller has a lot of private auctions, then you should be vigilant to the items mentioned above.

I'll take some of Visual Aid's advice and add it in to the first post.

[Mining Man]

I thought this was a pretty good post, taken from another thread, which is worth keeping in this excellent sticky.

le_paulo, on Sep 17 2007, 11:23 PM, said:

I don't know if you are interested in hearing a lawyer's view on this but having read through this thread, I thought I should add some comments to clarify some things:

- No genuine solicitor/lawyer would call or e-mail the mods here to threaten anything - that's borderline unethical as solicitors are prohibited from abusing their advantage of legal knowledge against a layperson. If they were going to contact a mod, they should send an official cease and desist letter under letterhead and give you a full opportunity to obtain legal advice. It won't necessarily have a special legal heading but these letters are usually referred to as "letters of demand".

- the legal disclaimer on this (and many other) forums regarding authorial responsibility isn't worth a hell of a lot. In any case, one must remember that it's the forum that is the enemy, not the author. Ever heard of Macluhan's famous dictum that the "medium is the message"? To attack the message, one must also attack the medium - in this case, the forum. And legally, the forum can still get pinged as it has "published" the objectionable content (a la the Whirpool situation). The main remedy would be to shut the forum down, remove offending posts etc. Suing for damages is pretty tough and not worth the effort unless there's a rich owner or insurance company lurking behind the forum somewhere.

- If you stick to facts or relate first person accounts of dealings with a vendor, you are 95% in the clear. The 5% problem comes if a well funded plaintiff decides to take you on anyway hoping to inflict some damage or burn you out with injunctions and/or lengthy and costly litigation. Even if you are in the right, it can be costly to defend legal claims. However, it's very rare that a con will sue because they could find themselves on the arse end of counterclaims or official investigations that have merit. Courts are (traditionally) forums of truth and the con hates being anywhere near the truth.

- Avoid inflammatory comments, third party accounts (my mate told me...), conjecture (I think he's doing this because...) and direct personal attacks (he's a shykster/con/scam! etc). Let the courts, ACCC and Fair Trading guys look after those conclusions!

- Merely naming and shaming a retailer is unlikely to be actionable and it is perfectly reasonable for forum members to share their own experiences of dealings with a named vendor. It's a matter of how it's done, taking note of my above warnings.

- use the standard low cost avenues to pursue cons - ACCC, fair trading, even the police if there's something nasty/threatening/criminal going on.

This forum is immensely powerful in the industry (as I found out recently in my awful dealings with a Melbourne based retailer). Negative posts are picked up very quickly and can be damaging to reputations (assuming they have one). That's why I encourage restraint. Less is more...until you want to take action yourself, in which case more is more!

[Anabolic]

this is the funniest thread ever!!!

Is this supposed to inform people or make them laugh?

Froggy im sorry to say you sound like you have a grudge against ebay mate. Your post isnt aimed at informing the average joe but aimed to scare them. Half the stuff you state not only sound funny but are untrue. for example how can sellers register 100's of ebay accounts when (one) ebay checks the IP's of members and knows who is who by matching IP's, they do can do this even when proxy's are involved. (two) requires a valid credit card with the authorisation code when registering and or (3) requires a valid verified phone number.
So according to your statement these sellers can somehow obtain all of these? not likely mate unless they own an ISP and a Bank as well.

Visual aid i cant beleive you wrote that much of an explaination for such a stupid thread. Ebay is a milti billion dollar comapny. They sell millions of dollars worht of stuff every day and no forum with a single vigelante is going to affect that. Get on with your life and stop being so touchy about ebay.

[Kazz]

Anabolic, on Sep 18 2007, 01:09 PM, said:

Ebay is a milti billion dollar comapny. They sell millions of dollars worht of stuff every day and no forum with a single vigelante is going to affect that. Get on with your life and stop being so touchy about ebay.

Yes and plenty of customers get ripped off every day, this thread was meant to serve as a heads up to those who may otherwise not have any idea of what can go wrong.

Foggy (not Froggy) was trying to help others out something we try to do on this forum, if you had any idea you would have realised that.

Karen.

[AndrewW]

all these guys defending ebay make me laugh.

as if ebay actually care about their buyers or their sellers ... they care about making money.

I could tell some great stories about my experiences as both a buyer and seller on ebay, and the complete lack of any helpful response from ebay customer service.

The absolute clanger would have to be the person I reported for selling dodgy gear after I contacted them asking them to remove the listing.  They refused, so I reported the listing and ebay pulled it.  The user then sent two death threats through the ebay internal mail system.

Apparently even that wasn't enough to get the account de-registered

Luckily the AFP took the thread more seriously

[Mr.Bitey]

Ah right - I was thinking more along the lines of shoving the Troll Spoon into the Troll Horn with a dash of salt and a Troll-Knuckle (from the Troll that the Dragon ripped apart creating said Ghost-Troll)

[EDIT] Ahh ive got it!

:Rolls up print out of dodgey projector screen material: :TTTTTTTTARRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU:

Cheers,
Bitey

[(ツ)]

Yeah: thinking that myself.....

Anabolic, on Sep 18 2007, 01:09 PM, said:

this is the funniest thread ever!!!

Is this supposed to inform people or make them laugh?

Get on with your life and stop being so touchy about ebay.

Have you used E-BAY yourself? If so, how would you stop people from getting ripped off by unscupulous sellers?

This thread is about alerting people to danger signs they were previously unaware of....can you help us???

[Anabolic]

mr.bitey, on Sep 18 2007, 01:12 PM, said:

:wheres my instrument for alerting a ghost account:

:ph34r:

Bitey.

yeah it must be a ghost account because i dont aggree with you. That cant happen can it? dont post stupid remarks and expect to be agreed with

Edited by Anabolic, 18 September 2007 - 01:40 PM.

[Foggy]

I wish I could post a link to some examples, but the only ones that I can find at the moment are from a seller who has a habit of using dummy legal threats.

I don't know how he's managed to get the multiple accounts, perhaps they were all created before ebay got strict on their validation. The seller has been around for a few years now under various guises.

Again, I re-iterate that this thread is just an outline of something that I've seen. It doesn't mean that it's the status quo for every seller on ebay. But please don't tell me it doesn't happen, because there's at least 3 people that I know of that it has happened to.

Yes, I've bought plenty of stuff on ebay...and even sold a few things too, so I'm not anti-ebay, I'm just trying to urge some caution about a particular tactic.

[Anabolic]

POWERZONE, on Sep 18 2007, 01:22 PM, said:

Yeah: thinking that myself.....
Have you used E-BAY yourself? If so, how would you stop people from getting ripped off by unscupulous sellers?

This thread is about alerting people to danger signs they were previously unaware of....can you help us???

POWERZONE i do understand the necessity of warning people about ebay scammers and fraudsters. There are alot of naive people out there that think that its just as safe as walking in a shop and buying. Its not and i agree. Ebay itself is a Idiotic company filled with many problems both with sellers and buyers and they are not willing to fix it because ebay makes money from it.
However i do not agree with some of the comments made in this thread as i have pointed out. I do not believe that making up so called (facts) without any evidence to back it up does anyone any good. Just look at the comments that is posted about audio connections here:

http://www.dtvforum....p...st&p=780753

that is the reason why places like Whirlpool get in trouble.

[Anabolic]

Foggy i have read your previous posts and i know who you are referring to. I also read the other forums which talk about AV equipment in Oz and in the US.

The seller your refering to may and i repeat (may) have 1-2 or even 3 accounts. that is not equal to your quoted 100 or so accounts. The most you can do with those 3 accounts is give yourself 3 ratings since ebay's rating system doesnt count anything after that.

Edited by Anabolic, 18 September 2007 - 01:51 PM.

[(ツ)]

Thanks mr bitey!!!

WRONG TARGET!!!!

:throws back the salt:

Edited by POWERZONE, 19 September 2007 - 10:37 AM.

[Foggy]

Anabolic, I used the words "possibly hundreds of".... which I agree could be misleading in this particular case, so I'm happy to edit that.

There is also the possibility that he could have bought feedback. This is a tactic described in this article

I'm happy to be challenged, and I certainly don't see any logical arguments against my posts as trolling. Ultimately, if we can have a civil discussion about it, then many more truths will emerge.

[Anabolic]

POWERZONE, on Sep 18 2007, 01:51 PM, said:

So what, in your opinion should people look out for when buying on E-BAY.

Foggy's put some examples out, I dont expect you to agree with all of them,

but do you have any advice of your own that you can tell us??

Personally i dont buy anything expensive on ebay unless i can pick it up. I dont really care about a low feedback rating but i do care about a bad feedback rating. Once you bid on a product you can get the sellers contact phone number through " Find Contact Information"
From then you can talk to them in person, ask any question and sus them out. Just as you would in any other purchase. Just bacause its on ebay doesnt mean you let your guard down.
If the seller does not allow pickups (1) they may be shonky or (2) they may be pumping up the shipping fees to compensate for a low selling price.
I generally ask if i can pickup even if the seller is in another state. If they say 'yes' then most likely they dont have anything to hide. I see this as a general rule that has served me well so far. Something could always go wrong being ebay but i can tell you that my last 2 ebay purchases involved a 50" plasma and a 40" LCD from ebay and everything was as expected.

EDIT: I should point out that the only time i have ever felt ripped off and lied to was with Harvey Norman when i paid $899 for a GPS unit dropping them from $999 thinking i was getting a good deal. Only to find out later on that the RRP of the same GPS was $799.

Edited by Anabolic, 18 September 2007 - 03:05 PM.

[Foggy]

Foggy, on Sep 18 2007, 01:57 PM, said:

There is also the possibility that he could have bought feedback. This is a tactic described in this article

I just did a search on ebay.com for "positive feedback" and sorted by Lowest Price first. It certainly appears that buying feedback is a possibility.

[Foggy]

Anabolic, on Sep 18 2007, 02:10 PM, said:

Personally i dont buy anything expensive on ebay unless i can pick it up. I dont really care about a low feedback rating but i do care about a bad feedback rating. Once you bid on a product you can get the sellers contact phone number through " Find Contact Information"
From then you can talk to them in person, ask any question and sus them out. Just as you would in any other purchase. Just bacause its on ebay doesnt mean you let your guard down.

Yes, that's certainly the most sensible approach, but if the seller lies to you outright about the origins of the product, and we are effectively censored from alerting others because of bullying, then this is a problem.

For example, I know that the National Sales Manager for an Australian projector distributor anonymously called a particular ebay seller to ask if the projector was sourced from the Australian distributor, and was told that it was. He then went to view the unit in the showroom and was again told it was Australian sourced. He noted the serial number and went back to his office and confirmed that it had not come through the Australian distributor.

Now ideally, the distributor should have taken action to shut him down, but my point is that projector distributors can't be expected to police ebay for this sort of thing, so we do need to understand more about how these (relatively few) shysters operate.