70 replies to this topic

[drazic2012]

pc9, on Oct 30 2011, 06:47 PM, said:

thanks - my current set is an LED so if I can get some improvement from the LED in the black area I will be happy.  The trouble with the LED is that when the show goes to a dark scene in a good quality HD movie, its like the TV switches to a SD mode.

Well, I'm still trying to decide if I should switch the D550 for the ST30, simply due to being unhappy with the blacks. It's not unwatchable or anything, it just seems to vary greatly depending on the format of the content. So far, 60hz avi files played off the PS3 look the best while 50hz DVD content looks very average. I have a week to decide, and can now get the 50" ST30 for $1099 - so it's very tempting to swap.

Although I am kind of attached to the physical look and stylings of the Samsung - it's a shame the ST30 looks like a big grey brick.

As for your other issue - that should be resolved no matter which set you get. My D550 is very clear (besides a couple of dead pixels) and has very good colour reproduction.

[diesel]

drazic2012, on Oct 31 2011, 05:51 PM, said:

Well, I'm still trying to decide if I should switch the D550 for the ST30, simply due to being unhappy with the blacks. It's not unwatchable or anything, it just seems to vary greatly depending on the format of the content. So far, 60hz avi files played off the PS3 look the best while 50hz DVD content looks very average. I have a week to decide, and can now get the 50" ST30 for $1099 - so it's very tempting to swap.

Other than black levels, is there anything else that the Sammy does that the Panasonic doesn't that you may miss??

[Owen]

drazic2012, on Oct 30 2011, 11:09 AM, said:

Yeah - there is still a significant price difference, which is the exact reason I'm trying to determine if the ST30 will provide me with an additional $459 of happiness or not. It's hard to tell without having viewed the ST30 at home like I have with the D550.

The ST will give you the best blacks for your money but it will still look grey in the dark.
The D550 has effectively no screen filter where the ST does so blacks will be a lot better when viewing with any ambient light.

[drazic2012]

diesel, on Oct 31 2011, 08:08 PM, said:

Other than black levels, is there anything else that the Sammy does that the Panasonic doesn't that you may miss??

Good question...

The Samsung is supposed to have slightly better colours, but I doubt I'll notice that much. It's also supposed to be brighter, but again I don't think I'll care as I don't view the set in bright conditions, and the difference is likely to be marginal.

One thing I've read is that the US model ST30 flickers a bit when playing blu-rays at 48hz - I have no idea if the Australian models are identical in this behavior, but I have no reason to expect otherwise. Inputs are very similar, although it's down one component input - but I'm only using one at the moment anyway, so I should be able to survive on that.

I've grown to like the look of the Samsung, so I'll have to adjust to the average look of the ST30. The sound is also fairly decent - it's no home theatre, but I expected much less.

I wont miss the buzzing - which isn't too bad, but can be slightly annoying depending on where I sit. I also wont be missing the average blacks - although bright content is fine, but if a scene is heavy on the blacks it starts to look washed out. There are some weird 'brightness pops' but I've barely noticed them on my set, unlike others, so it will likely be an even tradeoff for some of the Panasonic's fluctuations.

[drazic2012]

Owen, on Oct 31 2011, 11:31 PM, said:

The ST will give you the best blacks for your money but it will still look grey in the dark.
The D550 has effectively no screen filter where the ST does so blacks will be a lot better when viewing with any ambient light.

I don't expect pitch black - I'm just surprised at how grey the D550 blacks are. Lights on, lights off.... any dark scenes look kind of washed out. Some forums have reported that the larger screens have darker black levels than the 51" - so I'm not sure if that's a factor. As long as the ST30 is a little darker, I'll be happy. If I wasn't already taking the D550 back anyway, I probably wouldn't bother with the ST30, but now that I can it for $1099, it's making the upgrade a little easier to do.

One thing I have noticed - and it's hard to really judge this in a retail showroom, but the ST30 almost looks as if it has a very slight blue tint to the blacks, which could give the perception that it's darker than it really is. The D550 has a very grey washed out looking black, which again could give the impression that it's not quite as dark as the ST30. Without viewing the ST30 in optimal conditions it's really hard to tell if there is any truth in this, or if it's just my eyes playing tricks under retail lighting.

[neK]

what about the Pansonic St30 vs Samsung D8000? Which one is better?
(and floating blacks DO and will annoy me).

Edited by neK, 01 November 2011 - 12:05 AM.

[diesel]

neK, on Nov 1 2011, 01:05 AM, said:

what about the Pansonic St30 vs Samsung D8000? Which one is better?

The D8000.

[Owen]

drazic2012, on Nov 1 2011, 12:59 AM, said:

I don't expect pitch black - I'm just surprised at how grey the D550 blacks are. Lights on, lights off.... any dark scenes look kind of washed out. Some forums have reported that the larger screens have darker black levels than the 51" - so I'm not sure if that's a factor. As long as the ST30 is a little darker, I'll be happy. If I wasn't already taking the D550 back anyway, I probably wouldn't bother with the ST30, but now that I can it for $1099, it's making the upgrade a little easier to do.

It is true that the larger Samsungs have better blacks.

The ST should suit you better.

[drazic2012]

My ST30 has arrived and the D550 has been taken back to the store, much to my girlfriend's disappointment... she had named it 'Sammy' and was getting rather attached to it.

Just thought I'd write some quick comparisons after my initial viewing.

• Blacks are definitely better on the ST30, even with the lights out. Images don't look washed out like they did on the D550.
• Reflections were obviously much worse on the D550 - although they were never really a problem for me.
• The ST30 has very minor fan noise but no audible buzz like the D550 did.
• SD content was definitely better on the D550, although I don't know if I would notice much without having compared the two.
• Some picture modes on the ST30 look very grainy, but changing the settings seems to remedy this a bit.
• I haven't seen any IR on the Panasonic, but the Samsung seemed to get IR very quickly.
• I can see some very minor 'green' discolouration on the ST30, but only when viewing the TV guide menu. D-nice had this and reported it went away after a while.
• If the ST30 is only displaying 48hz for 24hz content like the US model, I can't tell and there is no noticeable flicker to my eyes.
• Sound isn't too bad on the ST30 - but the D550 was probably a little better.
• I wasn't really a fan of the Samsung remote, but the Panasonic one feels a lot cheaper.

I must admit I was getting reasonably fond of the Samsung, and while the Panasonic is better in a lot of ways it's probably only worth it if you are really bothered by something as mentioned above or if the price difference isn't too great between the two.

[pc9]

drazic2012, on Nov 12 2011, 02:16 PM, said:

My ST30 has arrived and the D550 has been taken back to the store, much to my girlfriend's disappointment... she had named it 'Sammy' and was getting rather attached to it.

Just thought I'd write some quick comparisons after my initial viewing.

• Blacks are definitely better on the ST30, even with the lights out. Images don't look washed out like they did on the D550.
• Reflections were obviously much worse on the D550 - although they were never really a problem for me.
• The ST30 has very minor fan noise but no audible buzz like the D550 did.
• SD content was definitely better on the D550, although I don't know if I would notice much without having compared the two.
• Some picture modes on the ST30 look very grainy, but changing the settings seems to remedy this a bit.
• I haven't seen any IR on the Panasonic, but the Samsung seemed to get IR very quickly.
• I can see some very minor 'green' discolouration on the ST30, but only when viewing the TV guide menu. D-nice had this and reported it went away after a while.
• If the ST30 is only displaying 48hz for 24hz content like the US model, I can't tell and there is no noticeable flicker to my eyes.
• Sound isn't too bad on the ST30 - but the D550 was probably a little better.
• I wasn't really a fan of the Samsung remote, but the Panasonic one feels a lot cheaper.

I must admit I was getting reasonably fond of the Samsung, and while the Panasonic is better in a lot of ways it's probably only worth it if you are really bothered by something as mentioned above or if the price difference isn't too great between the two.

thanks for a very fair and balanced review.  I have had my D550 for about a week now and agree with you on the black issue - am a little dissappointed wiht this aspect of the D550. I can't do a side by side comparison but can recall my previous series 7 58" was much better in this respect. The light reflection issue doesn't bother me as I mainly watch at night and can control the daytime light pretty effectively anyway. On the positive side, I am very happy with processing of sd pictures which is a mile ahead of my previous LED unit. Am really getting some nice results on VAST FTA services, especially the secondary channels.

[diesel]

I'm glad you guys noticed the poor blacks on the D550 compared to the ST30.

It was just so glaringly obvious in the shop when I first noticed it that I assumed it HAD to be the Sammy was poorly setup.
But like I said previously, I spent about 30mins playing around with the settings to try and improve and never got them any better.
I'm glad I didn't end up getting the D550 64" though the sub $2k price was very very tempting.

[drazic2012]

diesel, on Nov 13 2011, 08:35 AM, said:

I'm glad you guys noticed the poor blacks on the D550 compared to the ST30.

It was just so glaringly obvious in the shop when I first noticed it that I assumed it HAD to be the Sammy was poorly setup.
But like I said previously, I spent about 30mins playing around with the settings to try and improve and never got them any better.

I found the same thing. I've also noticed that changes to the brightness on the D550 only had a minor effect, while on the ST30 changing the brightness significantly alters the blacks.

diesel, on Nov 13 2011, 08:35 AM, said:

I'm glad I didn't end up getting the D550 64" though the sub $2k price was very very tempting.

That's what lured me in to the 51" - the $799 price. It's not a bad set, and in some ways the PQ is better than the ST30, but ultimately I'm happy I paid the extra $300.

[simbot41]

drazic2012, on Nov 14 2011, 12:19 PM, said:

That's what lured me in to the 51" - the $799 price. It's not a bad set, and in some ways the PQ is better than the ST30, but ultimately I'm happy I paid the extra $300.

Hey drazic. Did you have to haggle much to get a price of $1100 for the 50 st30? Was this a jb hifi? Did u extend warranty and how much did that set you back? Cheers

[drazic2012]

simbot41, on Nov 15 2011, 08:37 AM, said:

Hey drazic. Did you have to haggle much to get a price of $1100 for the 50 st30? Was this a jb hifi? Did u extend warranty and how much did that set you back? Cheers

I didn't haggle at all due to my brother working at a JB Hi-Fi store and managing to find a Good Guys store with the 50" ST30 on special for $1099. He did a straight price match - but it goes through as a VIP sale, so even the extra JB warranty was done at their "cost" price. I think I got an extra 4 years for about $117.

Personally, I would try to match this price at a Good Guys store - as they seem to have more room to move on price than JB Hi-Fi. From memory, the $1099 price was about $150 under the "cost" price listed on their system.

[jediboy]

Picked up Panny 55" ST30 for $1275.00 at Jb Hi Fi Carindale QLD last friday.  

Nice Tv. Although I think the Whites could be brighter. They also seem to have a very slight Pinkish Hue.
I've been running colour temp on Cool to get them anywhere near what Id call an acceptable white. Awesome Blacks though.

[simbot41]

jediboy, on Nov 15 2011, 03:25 PM, said:

Picked up Panny 55" ST30 for $1275.00 at Jb Hi Fi Carindale QLD last friday.  

Nice Tv. Although I think the Whites could be brighter. They also seem to have a very slight Pinkish Hue.
I've been running colour temp on Cool to get them anywhere near what Id call an acceptable white. Awesome Blacks though.

Hey Jediboy

is that with or without extra warranty?

[diesel]

drazic2012, on Nov 15 2011, 12:54 PM, said:

From memory, the $1099 price was about $150 under the "cost" price listed on their system.

I'm sure Panasonic are kicking back rebates to enable this sort of price. They need to as Samsung are kicking their butts in sales.

[drazic2012]

diesel, on Nov 16 2011, 09:07 AM, said:

I'm sure Panasonic are kicking back rebates to enable this sort of price. They need to as Samsung are kicking their butts in sales.

This could be true, especially in the case of the Good Guys who were advertising that price, but the JB Hi-Fi staff didn't have any insight in to this type of offer at the time I purchased.

Keep in mind their "cost" price isn't actually the price the TVs were purchased for - I vaguely recall my brother telling me that the price in their system has 'additional costs' factored in to it, to ensure they don't break even every time they are haggled to lower their price.

[Owen]

jediboy, on Nov 15 2011, 03:25 PM, said:

Picked up Panny 55" ST30 for $1275.00 at Jb Hi Fi Carindale QLD last friday.  

Nice Tv. Although I think the Whites could be brighter. They also seem to have a very slight Pinkish Hue.
I've been running colour temp on Cool to get them anywhere near what Id call an acceptable white. Awesome Blacks though.

If you want colours to appear as intended the Cool preset is as far off as you can get, its MUCH too blue, only the Cinema-Movie-THX presets are even close to accurate on any TV.
Colour TV's and PC monitors have been using a colour temperature closer to 9000k than the correct 6500k for decades so we are all accustomed to very blue whites.

Blue is the lease efficient colour in a phosphor based display (Plasma and CRT) so to get a blue heavy picture the Blue phosphor has the driven MUCH harder than Green or Red, this will not only ware out the Blue phosphor much quicker but can also result in the average picture level limiting system that all Plasmas have cutting in early as so much power is being used to drive Blue. This will result in bright images being limited or dulled down and noticeable picture brightness variations going from normal to bright scenes.
If a high contrast setting is used as well Blue can be over driven and run into clipping resulting in a colour shift on bright parts of the picture.

As an example I recently set up a DSE branded Vivo 50" Plasma, even in the warm preset the picture was obviously too blue and the set suffered from significant brightness variations from scene to scene due to the limiting system. I had to turn the contrast down, adjust Blue gain all the way down and Green and Red gains all the way up to get even close to 6500k, even then the picture is still blue heavy. Set up like this I was able to get a brighter picture with much less brightness fluctuation due to the limiter as Red and Green need much less power for a given light output than Blue.

[Owen]

jediboy, on Nov 15 2011, 03:25 PM, said:

Picked up Panny 55" ST30 for $1275.00 at Jb Hi Fi Carindale QLD last friday.  

Nice Tv. Although I think the Whites could be brighter. They also seem to have a very slight Pinkish Hue.
I've been running colour temp on Cool to get them anywhere near what Id call an acceptable white. Awesome Blacks though.

If you want colours to appear as intended the Cool preset is as far off as you can get, its MUCH too blue, only the Cinema-Movie-THX presets are even close to accurate on any TV.
Colour TV's and PC monitors have been using a colour temperature closer to 9000k than the correct 6500k for decades so we are all accustomed to very blue whites.

Blue is the lease efficient colour in a phosphor based display (Plasma and CRT) so to get a blue heavy picture the Blue phosphor has the driven MUCH harder than Green or Red, this will not only ware out the Blue phosphor much quicker but can also result in the average picture level limiting system that all Plasmas have cutting in early as so much power is being used to drive Blue. This will result in bright images being limited or dulled down and noticeable picture brightness variations going from normal to bright scenes.
If a high contrast setting is used as well Blue can be over driven and run into clipping resulting in a colour shift on bright parts of the picture.

As an example I recently set up a DSE branded Vivo 50" Plasma, even in the warm preset the picture was obviously too blue and the set suffered from significant brightness variations from scene to scene due to the limiting system. I had to turn the contrast down, adjust Blue gain all the way down and Green and Red gains all the way up to get even close to 6500k, even then the picture is still blue heavy. Set up like this I was able to get a brighter picture with much less brightness fluctuation due to the limiter as Red and Green need much less power for a given light output than Blue.

[pc9]

Owen, on Nov 16 2011, 10:40 AM, said:

If you want colours to appear as intended the Cool preset is as far off as you can get, its MUCH too blue, only the Cinema-Movie-THX presets are even close to accurate on any TV.
Colour TV's and PC monitors have been using a colour temperature closer to 9000k than the correct 6500k for decades so we are all accustomed to very blue whites.

Blue is the lease efficient colour in a phosphor based display (Plasma and CRT) so to get a blue heavy picture the Blue phosphor has the driven MUCH harder than Green or Red, this will not only ware out the Blue phosphor much quicker but can also result in the average picture level limiting system that all Plasmas have cutting in early as so much power is being used to drive Blue. This will result in bright images being limited or dulled down and noticeable picture brightness variations going from normal to bright scenes.
If a high contrast setting is used as well Blue can be over driven and run into clipping resulting in a colour shift on bright parts of the picture.

As an example I recently set up a DSE branded Vivo 50" Plasma, even in the warm preset the picture was obviously too blue and the set suffered from significant brightness variations from scene to scene due to the limiting system. I had to turn the contrast down, adjust Blue gain all the way down and Green and Red gains all the way up to get even close to 6500k, even then the picture is still blue heavy. Set up like this I was able to get a brighter picture with much less brightness fluctuation due to the limiter as Red and Green need much less power for a given light output than Blue.

I've had my D550 for three weeks now and I'm very happy with it.  Coming from an LED, I initially found it a bit 'dull' but this is more than compensated by a much more realistic picture, better colours and less edginess.

Ironically I find that it performs best with a small amount of natural light; say just before sunset and early in the morning.  In a totally light controlled room, I agree with a previous post that the blacks look a bit greyish, so nightime viewing needs at least some amount of artificial light.

Also was pleasantly surprised with the 3D which is brighter than my previous Series 7 59".  

I watch most of FTA telly via VAST and am really impressed with the D55Os ability to process standard definition pictures (although the VAST MPEG 4 stream obviously helps with this).

To conclude - very happy with my $850 investment on this TV.  Its not perfect but defintely meets my expectations with FTA television