22 replies to this topic

[yellowtongue]

Hi guys I would appreciate some advice on the following situation.
I recently attended a service call to a motel. Which is separated into 4 dwellings. With an 8 channel analogue headend in each. My contact there is quite keen on digitizing his head-ends, however he doesn't want to fork out for, 4 digital headends. He has asked me to possibly find a alternative to his problem. So I've thought about it and have a few ideas. like having 1 digital head-end and running hard wire to adjacent dwellings. But this will be very very difficult as there is no infrastructure in place to do so. So my second idea was to have 1 digi headend, then transmit via an antenna of some sort (which is why I need your help). To the adjacent dwellings. Now I'm not even sure if I can do this without breaking some law. So any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advanced

[Tazzy2Heads]

yellowtongue, on 20 April 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

Hi guys I would appreciate some advice on the following situation.
I recently attended a service call to a motel. Which is separated into 4 dwellings. With an 8 channel analogue headend in each. My contact there is quite keen on digitizing his head-ends, however he doesn't want to fork out for, 4 digital headends. He has asked me to possibly find a alternative to his problem. So I've thought about it and have a few ideas. like having 1 digital head-end and running hard wire to adjacent dwellings. But this will be very very difficult as there is no infrastructure in place to do so. So my second idea was to have 1 digi headend, then transmit via an antenna of some sort (which is why I need your help). To the adjacent dwellings. Now I'm not even sure if I can do this without breaking some law. So any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advanced

You can't transmit tv over the air without an appropriate licence on approved channels and power level,and pay the licence
fee each year for a start.
I think the owner will have to bite the bullet and update each headend at the units.I have seen some motels down here that are
too tight to spend any money and are using a set top box with RF out for each main channel and feeding them into the system
via an amp and splitter in reverse using UHF channels, but going by the signal levels they did it themselves or a meter wasn't
used by the installer or electrician at the time.
Cheers Tazzy.

[clipper]

Are they sending RF Foxtel,or the like, through the system? If he's really only interested in FTA terrestrial it may be cheaper to erect antenna for each unit, or do away with the headends and bring the DTV signal staight into a STB or DTV TV using Taps/ Dist amp.

[yellowtongue]

Hi guys thanks for the input. Looks like over the air transmission is out the question. And yes it is for Foxtel. They currently have 3 ikusi mcp411 rack mounted systems in place and a kingray md100u rack mounted system.

[Tazzy2Heads]

yellowtongue, on 20 April 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

Hi guys thanks for the input. Looks like over the air transmission is out the question. And yes it is for Foxtel. They currently have 3 ikusi mcp411 rack mounted systems in place and a kingray md100u rack mounted system.

There must be a FTA antenna at each headend now?
How many tv's are we talking about per block ?Tv's have never been cheaper, with a bulk buy you should be able to name your
own price the way sales are at the moment. As clipper says it may be more cost effective to buy tv's if only FTA is all they want, you will have to crunch the numbers.
Tazzy.

[mtv]

One problem to consider.... in the (probably not too distant) future, TV's will not be manufactured with analogue tuners in them, due to worldwide analogue shutoff.... So what happens when you have an analogue distribution system with no analogue tuners to receive the signals?

Eventually, TV's will start dying and need replacing. At what point do clients determine when they will upgrade to a digital modulation/distribution system?  Eg: some rooms will have new TV's with no analogue tuner.... if there is a FTA digital RF distribution system, they'll get the digital FTA channels OK, but not the Foxtel channels distributed with analogue modulators.

I strongly discourage my clients from installing any analogue equipment now.

Sure, digital modulators are more expensive, but you need to weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of installing analogue gear now and having no choice but to upgrade it in the not too distant future.

[yellowtongue]

They already have digital LCD tv's in place. Yes they have a FTA antenna in each block, 15 rooms per block. He is getting all digital terrestrial channels no problem. But the Foxtel is still analogue. I've being looking at prices for the resi-lynx quad input digi mod. I think your right he has to buy 8 lol. At about $2200 each.
Cheers buddy

[yellowtongue]

@Mtv
Agreed. I haven't installed a Foxtel analogue distribution system in a long time. Only replacing or adjusting them. But I have never installed a digital head-end either. I really think motel owners in general won't do anything about it until they have too.

[clipper]

Tazzy2Heads, on 20 April 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

You can't transmit tv over the air without an appropriate licence on approved channels and power level,and pay the licence
fee each year for a start.

Doesn't apply to AV senders,right?  Wondering if there is a commercial higher powered AV sender with multiple inputs that can be set up in series? Thinking along the lines of an ethernet over the air repeater.

[nbound]

clipper, on 21 April 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

Doesn't apply to AV senders,right?  Wondering if there is a commercial higher powered AV sender with multiple inputs that can be set up in series? Thinking along the lines of an ethernet over the air repeater.

It doesnt apply to AV senders because they are low power, and in the 2.4Ghz (or some in the 5.8Ghz) spectrum. Problem is... they interfere with and are interfered by devices with the same frequency. (Microwaves, Cordless Phones, Wifi, etc.)

If they are outside the frequency/strength requirements, then they may either require licensing or just be illegal.

Edited by nbound, 21 April 2012 - 09:17 AM.

[Tazzy2Heads]

I think the only answer for a job in this situation with so many tv's over multiple buidings is plan 'A', spend the mans money
buy the right gear, keep it simple, do it right the first time and draw a plan of whats been done. It may be a few bucks up front in his
eyes but in the long run with a reliable system he will save $$$$.
Tazzy

[The Baja]

yellowtongue, on 20 April 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

They already have digital LCD tv's in place. Yes they have a FTA antenna in each block, 15 rooms per block. He is getting all digital terrestrial channels no problem. But the Foxtel is still analogue. I've being looking at prices for the resi-lynx quad input digi mod. I think your right he has to buy 8 lol. At about $2200 each.
Cheers buddy

Hi "Yellowtounge"

Lets Get to the Facts,

FOXTEL has NOT approved any Digital Modulators For Use with FOXTEL Distribution. If you are attempting to Install Digital Modulators to reticulate FOXTEL, Then this is Illegal. ( Only if they Know about it )

Installing 8X quad input Digital Modulators Is just Crazy. Most Commercial applications will only use 8 Fox Channels requiring only 2x Quad input Modulators

Foxtel's Solution to this problem is the " BLUE BOX "  (QAM) System.


Cheer's




The Baja

[yellowtongue]

@the baja

Thank you for this information. It makes me wonder why they wouldn't approve something that ultimately benefits their customers.  This QAM system you mention, is this something that will be implemented or just "hear say".

Thanks mate.

[The Baja]

yellowtongue, on 24 April 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

@the baja

Thank you for this information. It makes me wonder why they wouldn't approve something that ultimately benefits their customers.  This QAM system you mention, is this something that will be implemented or just "hear say".

Thanks mate.

Hi "yellowtounge"


The Reason Foxtel will not allow Digital Modulation is Because of the Contracts they Have with their Content Providers.

The "Blue Box" QAM System is been implemented in many Installations, But There are Contracts between the Customer & Foxtel that need to be signed and Also you need to have a Service Contract with the Customer. This Makes things very Messy and i Know of Many, Many Installers that have opted NOT to have anything to do with this, But there will be Others that are NEW to the Industry that will be willing to take this on. They will Soon Learn their lesson the Hard way


Another FOX Monopoly



Cheer's



The Baja

[yellowtongue]

@The Baja

Hrrmm..very interesting. Thank you for the insight. Given my relationship with Foxtel. (them being my bread and butter) it would be unwise for me to pursue digital modulation for Foxtel  any further, it's a shame though. It's a great solution.

Thanks mate.

[DrP]

Those res-linx digi-mod quad appear to only have composite video input too...

[The Baja]

DrP, on 24 April 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

Those res-linx digi-mod quad appear to only have composite video input too...

ALL of the Digital Modulators Have a Composite Input, while some have S-Video & Composite Inputs. I am currently Playing with my HDMI input Digital Modulator This Modulator also has an ASI Input & ASI Output. These are Broadcast Quality Modulators.



Cheer's





The Baja

[nbound]

The Baja, on 24 April 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

I am currently Playing with my HDMI input Digital Modulator

Hell yeah, cant wait to play with one either

[The Baja]

nbound, on 24 April 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Hell yeah, cant wait to play with one either

The HDIM Modulator Is Brilliant   I can run IP TV & COFDM At the Same time. But Most Applications will require only IP TV or COFDM Output. An Important thing to note Is that the Output is COFDM MPEG-4, So Tv tuners will need to be MPEG-4 Compatible to Display The Streams.

I have Now Ordered the Quad HDMI Modulator.



Cheer's




The Baja

[nbound]

The Baja, on 04 May 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

I have Now Ordered the Quad HDMI Modulator.

Dammit! And to think I was jealous before!!! I guess they went MPEG4 so they could fit that many HD channels into the one multiplex.

Edited by nbound, 04 May 2012 - 06:51 PM.

[DrP]

Grab 30 seconds of encode from them and post it.  Screw the encode bit rate down as far as possible while not destroying the picture quality.

[The Baja]

nbound, on 04 May 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

I guess they went MPEG4 so they could fit that many HD channels into the one multiplex.

Yes True,

Almost all of this equipment Comes from Europe and the Standard there is MPEG-4. Eventually Australia will Come to the party and Start to Transmit  in MPEG-4, This makes good sense Due to the Bandwidth Restrictions we have.


Cheer's





The Baja