111 replies to this topic

[alanh]

John W,
Treat the situation sensitively because a decent transmitter set in the Geelong area will create work for installers for small UHF antennas initally. The days of installing large antenna systems will end in this area.

I would be interested at the signal conditions with a standard height non guyed mast height.

Arthurs Seat (Band 5)
ATV (TEN) channel 54
ABV (ABC) channel 60
SBS channel 57
HSV (Seven) channel 63
GTV (Nine) channel 51
All horizontally polarised.

Mt Dandenong (Band 3 & 4 only)
ATV channel 11
ABV channel 12
SBS channel 29
HSV channel 6
GTV channel 8
All horizontally polarised.

Could I also suggest you look at Read Get the Best Reception, Melbourne and read the links. Particularly the transmitter list to see the other repeaters around the western side of Port Phillip Bay.

AlanH

[theyallexist]

Hi Guys,
Don't have any contacts at any of the Local Bellarine papers.
Will be interested to see how you go tomorrow John.

Cheers

[John W]

Here's an update following the installer's visit today.  He only had a preliminary look as most of today involved doing other things such as laying cables.  He's back on Thursday week for a proper test.

He did a quick check of signal readings direct from the current antenna (and sorry I forgot to ask what model it was) which he described as "not a good one, but nothing wrong with it".  In his words all channels except ABC analogue were "fail".  He did qoute some dB values but I was busy doing other things at the time and couldn't write them down.  I think they were all in the 40dB range but I can be sure.

Funnily, the signal was stronger when the antenna was slightly offset to Mount Dandenong than when it was properly aligned.

He does a number of jobs in the Point Lonsdale area and indicated that generally reception from Mount Dandenong is fine.  Whilst reception from Safety Beach/Arthur's Seat, Traralgon/Mt Tassie, and Lookout Hill is often possible, it isn't normally reliable so he doesn't recommend trying.

He feels that it is a positioning problem with a large cypress tree a few hundred metres away a potential problem.  This could explain why the signal has degraded slowly over the last 30 years!

Anyway, he'll be back next week to do a proper test and check the signal at various different points/heights on the roof.  He seems confident he can find a decent signal by doing so.

I'm hoping he's right

I'll update you further after next week's visit.

Thanks again for your help.

John

[crusty]

John W, on May 5 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

Here's an update following the installer's visit today.  He only had a preliminary look as most of today involved doing other things such as laying cables.  He's back on Thursday week for a proper test.

He did a quick check of signal readings direct from the current antenna (and sorry I forgot to ask what model it was) which he described as "not a good one, but nothing wrong with it".  In his words all channels except ABC analogue were "fail".  He did qoute some dB values but I was busy doing other things at the time and couldn't write them down.  I think they were all in the 40dB range but I can be sure.

Funnily, the signal was stronger when the antenna was slightly offset to Mount Dandenong than when it was properly aligned.

He does a number of jobs in the Point Lonsdale area and indicated that generally reception from Mount Dandenong is fine.  Whilst reception from Safety Beach/Arthur's Seat, Traralgon/Mt Tassie, and Lookout Hill is often possible, it isn't normally reliable so he doesn't recommend trying.

He feels that it is a positioning problem with a large cypress tree a few hundred metres away a potential problem.  This could explain why the signal has degraded slowly over the last 30 years!

Anyway, he'll be back next week to do a proper test and check the signal at various different points/heights on the roof.  He seems confident he can find a decent signal by doing so.

I'm hoping he's right

I'll update you further after next week's visit.

Thanks again for your help.

John

John

Was wondering how the signal test / site survey went?
Did he leave any readings DCP, CH BER, PV BER & MER for all channels?
Let us know

Crusty

[John W]

crusty, on May 10 2009, 08:16 AM, said:

Was wondering how the signal test / site survey went?
Did he leave any readings DCP, CH BER, PV BER & MER for all channels?

Not as part of his quick check last week.  I'm hoping for more data when he spends more time on it this Thursday.  I'll let you know what I get.

John

[lauricat]

John W, on May 10 2009, 09:29 AM, said:

Not as part of his quick check last week.  I'm hoping for more data when he spends more time on it this Thursday.  I'll let you know what I get.

John

Any news yet John?

Cheers

Laurie.

[John W]

Sorry for the delay - I've been travelling constantly since Thursday and haven't had a chance to log in until now.

The installer came on Thursday with a Ikusi meter and a hand held Fracarro LPV345HV antenna.  He didn't give me specific dB, BER, etc readings as apparently the Ikusi unit gives "Pass" and "Fail" and he uses those instead.  On the eastern side of the (flat metal) roof, all but channel 7 were "Fail" whereas the western half of the roof, all readings were "Pass".  Mount Dandenong is to the NE.

So the antenna was moved to the middle of the western half of the roof, about 8m from the old position and about 1.5 m off the roof.  He talked me into installing a Fracarro LPV345HV in place of the (3 or so year) old antenna I've described previously as the old one was already badly corroded and seemed to have been slightly damaged by antenna surfing possums .

He did indicate that there was considerable overhead (12+dB if I understood correctly) with the new antenna in the new location.

So now we've got excellent analogue and digital reception on all stations except ABC analogue.  Not perfect for the two analogue TVs in the house but they can connect to the Media Centre to solve that problem.

Thanks again for everybody's help along the way.

Edited by John W, 20 May 2009 - 01:58 PM.

[lauricat]

John W, on May 20 2009, 01:57 PM, said:

Sorry for the delay - I've been travelling constantly since Thursday and haven't had a chance to log in until now.

The installer came on Thursday with a Ikusi meter and a hand held Fracarro LPV345HV antenna.  He didn't give me specific dB, BER, etc readings as apparently the Ikusi unit gives "Pass" and "Fail" and he uses those instead.  On the eastern side of the (flat metal) roof, all but channel 7 were "Fail" whereas the western half of the roof, all readings were "Pass".  Mount Dandenong is to the NE.

So the antenna was moved to the middle of the western half of the roof, about 8m from the old position and about 1.5 m off the roof.  He talked me into installing a Fracarro LPV345HV in place of the (3 or so year) old antenna I've described previously as the old one was already badly corroded and seemed to have been slightly damaged by antenna surfing possums .

He did indicate that there was considerable overhead (12+dB if I understood correctly) with the new antenna in the new location.

So now we've got excellent analogue and digital reception on all stations except ABC analogue.  Not perfect for the two analogue TVs in the house but they can connect to the Media Centre to solve that problem.

Thanks again for everybody's help along the way.

Thanks John.

I too am experiencing problems, in same area.

Could you P.M the installer name/details? I may need some professional help too!

Thanks

Laurie

( I can't P.M yet as I have <5 posts)

[John W]

lauricat, on May 20 2009, 07:53 PM, said:

Could you P.M the installer name/details? I may need some professional help too!
( I can't P.M yet as I have <5 posts)

And I can't seem to PM you - perhaps you need 5 posts before you can receive a PM?

John

[lauricat]

John W, on May 22 2009, 09:44 AM, said:

And I can't seem to PM you - perhaps you need 5 posts before you can receive a PM?

John

Sorry John.

My ABC 1 & 2 was unwatchable this morning....grr!

Try lauricat at gmail dot com.


Thanks & cheers

Laurie.

[beeblebrox]

John W, on May 20 2009, 01:57 PM, said:

So now we've got excellent analogue and digital reception on all stations except ABC analogue.  Not perfect for the two analogue TVs in the house but they can connect to the Media Centre to solve that problem.

Thanks again for everybody's help along the way.

so again, it's location location location....

hope he was not just using the pass/fail mechanism on his meter as that doesn't neccisarily give you a view about how far from the cliff you are.  In fact I don't even bother to use it on my Ikusi because I pretty much rely on cBER/PvBER becasue if that's not right you'll know straight away if you've got  a pass/fail and it also gives you a view of how much margin you have... MER is also useful from a margin perspective as it gives you a combined index to work with.

but you've got a result all the same!!

[John W]

lauriecat:

Further to the PM, the stations I pick up are now (all from Mount Dandenong):
VHF:  Seven (digital 6, analogue 7), Nine (digital 8, analogue 9), Ten and One (analogue 10, digital 11), and ABC Digital (12)
UHF:  SBS (analogue 28, digital 29), and Channel 31 (analogue 31)

With the Band 3, 4, 5 antenna I've lost ABC analogue on channel 2 VHF.

beeblebrox:

I did ask him for more detailed figures but he says he doesn't generally use them as all he needs is the 10+dB margin (over what?) to ensure he was well away from the cliff.  So he's obviously looking at some other data it provides.

John

[bellaswan]

ABC 1 and 2 was barely watchable this morning in Geelong

[crusty]

bellaswan, on May 26 2009, 04:22 PM, said:

ABC 1 and 2 was barely watchable this morning in Geelong

no worries at Moriac signal fine no dropouts

on the house
Dy10
Lp 4/5
FL3MPH filter/triplexer
MHW34F Amplifier
on 15ft mast

on the shed
LP 3/4/5
Ikusi 2nd hand scored from a job
on 6ft mast
yes I,am an installer
have been for 30 + years
Put up the best gear in the right position, test with the best meter u can afford = no call-backs.

85% to 95% of existing antennas are positioned in the wrong spot or height for successfull digital reception --- have proved this many times.

Signal Test
Definition Of: A walk on the roof with a test antenna and meter.
Not a look up at the roof from the ground.

The correct antenna installed in the right spot will ensure good digital reception

rgds crusty

[alanh]

Crusty,
Is there any domestic installations using the low powered translators in Newtown?

AlanH

[crusty]

alanh, on May 26 2009, 08:05 PM, said:

Crusty,
Is there any domestic installations using the low powered translators in Newtown?

AlanH

Yep quite a few for the low areas in Newtown and down the bottom end of Shannon ave.(analouge)
I have actually installed a couple right under the retransmission towers because they wanted the digital services.(Melb)
U could pick up the retransmitter on a fly lead hanging out of the speccy


Rgds crusty

[normie]

I always seem to have problems with Channel 7 up here in East Geelong.
With Wintal STB-X5 these are the figures i get:
ABC C/N 21.1
Seven C/N 15.6-18
Nine C/N 24.1
TEN C/N 24.1
SBS C/N 24.1
Anything which goes below C/N 18 then starts to have problems this only happens with CH 7, all other channels i receive fine, im connected to a master antenna system which goes to 8 units and is very high, the unit im in is furthest away from the antenna, thus i would have the longest cable run from the antenna. Dick Smith in the current catalogue have a plug-in TV signal booster cat L4690, would this help to get CH7 stable at a C/N of 18 or above as from my experience with the wintal set top anything above C/N 18 results in good reception.

[GoForMoe]

I live fairly close to there and have an antenna with a masthead amplifier, which achieves very good results. However adding a plugin booster at your end would likely degrade your signal, because you'd be effectively amplifying what's causing the poor signal, rather than improving it.

Based on those figures it seems fairly normal as a problem, Seven is on channel 6 which is at the lowest end of the Digital TV spectrum, and prone to more interference than others and ABC is on 12, which isn't always part of the older antenna design.

High quality cabling can usually make a 10-20% difference in signal strength, as does avoiding running the signal through other devices before getting to the set top box, for example running it via a VCR. I personally suggest the Dick Smith own brand cable, if you ask at the salespeople they will usually try to push you on to one of the more "high end" cables that cost a lot of money and do a poor job. It should come in a plastic thing with a blue background, and mention RG6 on the box. That said, Dick Smith have recently changed all their own branded products, so it may be different now (might drop in tomorrow and double check the DSE in Market Square to check that). There should be a little blob near the end of the cable with EMI-Supressor on it, which is the key, a lower quality cable won't have that. Physically it will also be much harder to bend.

So if you haven't already done that, that's your best option. Just remember that if you are renting it is your landlord's responsibility to have an antenna system that is up to the job, and that if you can rule out issues on your end, then rather than spending money on an amplifier which will likely make your reception worse.

[normie]

Thanks for your reply, i will give the higher quailty cable a go, as all i really need is a 10% improvment in signal strength and i would think EMI-Supressor would help with electrical noise as when the fridge motor goes on and off and does somtimes break channel 7 up.
Should i go for the shortest possible length? My current coax is about 6m and hooked direct to the set top box and thats connected to the TV via RCA cables at the set top and scart at the tv.

The most bizarre thing about reception here is a connected up a spare set top box to a TV in another room and with just a rabbits ears antenna it receives CH7 perfectly as well as CH 10, & SBS but CH 9 and CH 2 drop out.

[GoForMoe]

Quote

Should i go for the shortest possible length? My current coax is about 6m and hooked direct to the set top box and thats connected to the TV via RCA cables at the set top and scart at the tv.

With standard sort of home lengths there shouldn't be noticable signal loss with a longer cable.

[normie]

GoForMoe, on Jul 8 2009, 12:09 AM, said:

With standard sort of home lengths there shouldn't be noticable signal loss with a longer cable.

Is this the cable u meant L4269?
http://www.dse.com.a...duct/View/L4269
Havent been to DSE yet as i had no problems with CH7 today.

[GoForMoe]

Not from the picture it isn't. I'd suggest just going in, just look for the cable with the blob near the end, here's a low quality photo of mine:
http://img403.images...9/09072009b.jpg

And don't buy any cables from Crest or Belkin, etc.

Other option would be Jaycar, they should be able to help you, perhaps a touch more expensive though.

[GoForMoe]

Checked today in store (Warun Ponds one, far back corner in blue containers), L4271 for 10 metres or L4268 for 6 metres.

Edited by GoForMoe, 10 July 2009 - 07:58 PM.

[Grapeape]

Huh, funny, you guys in Geelong are complianing....
I live in Lorne, even further away from Mt. Dandy... and worse, i am up a valley and behind a hill, i get all the Digital from Mt. Dandy just perfect with my old 22 year old antenna that is falling apart and i think the Kingray Masthead amp is hanging in there too.

I have also done jobs where we got Melb Digital in Colac and Apollo Bay.

You guys in Geelong have it easy! An $80 antenna on a 1 meter stick generally see's you right.

Most new jobs down here use 3 antenna that are band specific, then diplexed, then amplified......
But as i say, my old antenna is still working just fine.

Edited by Grapeape, 18 July 2009 - 05:11 PM.

[alanh]

Grapeape,
If it is so good why did they install translators in
Apollo Bay, Marengo
Anglesea/Airey's Inlet, Mt Ingoldsby
Lorne, George St
Newtown, Highton
Wye River, Wye River
Colac, Warrion Hill

Bold indicates there is digital translators on these sites.

Some of these sites have digital transmitters as well.

See the transmitter lists in Get the Best Reception, Melbourne and read the links.

Is the signal reliable in the early evening when the air is moist?

AlanH