28 replies to this topic

[mozart]

Hi guys. Looking to see whether anyone has seen or listened to one of these

I'm currently running my Squeezebox directly into my Denon 3805 when running 2 channel.  Logical upgrade path would be to incorporate a 2 channel integrated (like an MF 3.5) however this necessitates using the squeezebox DACs and I've found that the DAC in the Denon is actually superior to the Squeezebox.  Looks like the 1008 is a unified, albeit expensive option.  Alternative would be to buy a separate DAC and integrated with HT bypass and then you are starting to get into the realm of needing to upgrade everything else in order to justify.

Love my squeezebox, but is it possible that the 1008 is a better solution than say a Transporter + integrated?  Got no idea what it might cost in Oz but thinking it could even be more expensive than TP + Amp.

Thanks

[Mining Man]

If it is essentially the kW550 in different clothes, then it will be a lot more expensive than an alternative DAC and integrated solution. Do a brand search on Musical Fidelity here, and see the difference for yourself. (They are kiwi RRPs, but nonetheless reflect the relative differences...)

[JohnA]

Al, will be here shotly

he is the MF guru

[:)]

hehe.

its a bit of an all in one solution, ie being a 2ch integrated (pre+pwr) plus a dac built in.

probably a good option of whether to go for a source + integrated (ore pre+pwr) or this kind of all in one solution. less cables & boxes too with this kind of thing.

its an expensive option though at $8k and probaly worth evaulatiing vs other equivalent separates options. the mf a5 pre+pwr for instance is higher specd on the power amp side plus you get a dedicated pre for the same money. Alternatively too you could get an A5 integrated + an mf Xdac for $5k.

Probalby a step up from the A5 integrated though and a good jump up from the a3.5 I'd dare say.

[mozart]

alebonau, on Jul 19 2007, 07:35 PM, said:

hehe.

its a bit of an all in one solution, ie being a 2ch integrated (pre+pwr) plus a dac built in.

probably a good option of whether to go for a source + integrated (ore pre+pwr) or this kind of all in one solution. less cables & boxes too with this kind of thing.

its an expensive option though at $8k and probaly worth evaulatiing vs other equivalent separates options. the mf a5 pre+pwr for instance is higher specd on the power amp side plus you get a dedicated pre for the same money. Alternatively too you could get an A5 integrated + an mf Xdac for $5k.

Probalby a step up from the A5 integrated though and a good jump up from the a3.5 I'd dare say.

Thanks guys.. it is an interesting conundrum.  I do like the look of the MF 1008, but the value point to me is closer to $3/4k rather than $8k+  Have they landed in Oz yet?  Anyone seen or heard one?

[:)]

mozart, on Jul 19 2007, 06:44 PM, said:

Thanks guys.. it is an interesting conundrum.  I do like the look of the MF 1008, but the value point to me is closer to $3/4k rather than $8k+  Have they landed in Oz yet?  Anyone seen or heard one?

depends on your speakers a little too mozart, if stickign with the b&w 600 series the likes of an mf a3.5 quite grunty at 120wpc will be quite adequate for driving, you could pick up drizts going s/h at $1400, leaving $1.5k-2.5k to pick a lovely source which can be cd or if just dacs anythign from the $1k mf xdac upwards, keeping you well within your budget all up.

[mozart]

alebonau, on Jul 19 2007, 07:51 PM, said:

depends on your speakers a little too mozart, if stickign with the b&w 600 series the likes of an mf a3.5 quite grunty at 120wpc will be quite adequate for driving, you could pick up drizts going s/h at $1400, leaving $1.5k-2.5k to pick a lovely source which can be cd or if just dacs anythign from the $1k mf xdac upwards, keeping you well within your budget all up.

It's a pity that the solution to replace the 3805 for 2 channel costs more than the 3805 itself   Why aren't there more 2 channel integrateds with quality DAC's?

I fear that just running the SB into the MF alone will be a downgrade over the 3805 DAC's which deliver better sound using the SB as a digital source only.  How does the MF X Dac compare to the Benchmark 1?

[:)]

mozart, on Jul 19 2007, 06:58 PM, said:

It's a pity that the solution to replace the 3805 for 2 channel costs more than the 3805 itself
~

hehe its only because the 3805 is a great HT amp and perfectly good for that though not really aimed at the 2ch market.

mozart, on Jul 19 2007, 06:58 PM, said:

~  Why aren't there more 2 channel integrateds with quality DAC's?
~

hehe mainly because most people for 2ch jsut run a cd plaeyr which has dac built in or a transport dac combo to feed a 2ch integrated or pre-pwr.

its not usual to include a dac in a 2ch integrated or pre-pwr as theyre usually pure analog devices. that said there are a few products with built in dacs the mf a1008 as you found

mozart, on Jul 19 2007, 06:58 PM, said:

~

I fear that just running the SB into the MF alone will be a downgrade over the 3805 DAC's which deliver better sound using the SB as a digital source only.  ~

yeah sure a conundrum for you...
I suspect the dacs and analog output stage of the sB is pretty sus, and know people run outboard dacs with them for that reason, plus the 3805 is pretty sus for 2ch. so either not going ot get an improvemtn with just one or the other I suspect

mozart, on Jul 19 2007, 06:58 PM, said:

~  How does the MF X Dac compare to the Benchmark 1?

funny you should ask, a guy the other day dug up an old thread from a couple of years back where we compared the two.
http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=17561
the benchmark has the added bonus of a built in head phone amp but is also another $500 or so more expensive than the mf.

[Mikey Z]

sorry to hijack the thread..... but,
which DAC is better in any of your opinions? Denon 2807 or CA 340C?

[:)]

Mikey Z, on Jul 19 2007, 09:07 PM, said:

sorry to hijack the thread..... but,
which DAC is better in any of your opinions? Denon 2807 or CA 340C?

the CA 340C as a dedicated cd player woudl walk all over the 2807 I'd say mikey. that said the benefit of a dedicated cd player is not usually just the dacs but the analog output stage as well which is whats usually crook with dvd players for playign the format. that said little depends on the rest of the chain too. quite likely the 2807 would screw the cd sound. the likes of 2ch pre or integrated woudl be needed in my opinion to get the best out the 340c cd player.

[mozart]

alebonau, on Jul 19 2007, 10:11 PM, said:

the CA 340C as a dedicated cd player woudl walk all over the 2807 I'd say mikey. that said the benefit of a dedicated cd player is not usually just the dacs but the analog output stage as well which is whats usually crook with dvd players for playign the format. that said little depends on the rest of the chain too. quite likely the 2807 would screw the cd sound. the likes of 2ch pre or integrated woudl be needed in my opinion to get the best out the 340c cd player.

I'd agree with that. Even my old NAD 521BEE was at least as good if not better than my 3805 in the DAC phase. You'd think with the ongoing growth of streaming formats as opposed to transport based ones that there will be shift to dedicated DAC's as opposed to CD players.  They would have to cheaper to mass produce than CD players as there is no transport stage...

One advantage that the AV amp has over an integrated is bass management.  With an integrated that does not have sub out and cut-off frequencies you need to rewire your speakers and sub and manage the crossover on the sub.. Guys am I right here? With the 2807 you can do this within the amp.  If you are using bookshelf speakers like me you need a sub to fill the sound field.

[RodN]

Hi Mozart,

The MF looks like a fantastic unit.

I had the opportunity to listen to one of these last year in Sydney (picture via the shanling link on the left). Great integrated with the class A topology really shining in 2 ch playback which has an integrated DAC.

I really like integrateds, they offer so much 2ch performance and functionality in the same package.

[mozart]

RodN, on Jul 19 2007, 11:30 PM, said:

Hi Mozart,

The MF looks like a fantastic unit.

I had the opportunity to listen to one of these last year in Sydney (picture via the shanling link on the left). Great integrated with the class A topology really shining in 2 ch playback which has an integrated DAC.

I really like integrateds, they offer so much 2ch performance and functionality in the same package.

Looks interesting... any idea on the street price?  Does it have HT bypass?

[norpus]

mozart, on Jul 20 2007, 12:18 AM, said:

Looks interesting... any idea on the street price?  Does it have HT bypass?

I suggest you contact Andrew (AJW056) for all the info

Telephone (61) 02-4571-3222    Fax(61) 02-4571-3233
Email enquiries@aslanacoustics.com.au
Postal address Unit 3, 6 Charles Street, North Richmond NSW 2754, Australia

[Mining Man]

Another solution to consider, is something like the Harman Kardon HD 970. This CD player also has a digital input, so you can utilise the on-board DACs for an external source, such as your Squeezebox.

[mozart]

Mining Man, on Jul 20 2007, 06:15 AM, said:

Another solution to consider, is something like the Harman Kardon HD 970. This CD player also has a digital input, so you can utilise the on-board DACs for an external source, such as your Squeezebox.

Any thoughts on the quality of the DAC stage vs the 3805 or the Squeezebox?  It's a great idea providing a digital input.  Only issue is I'd be paying for a transport stage that I wouldn't ever use.  What I can't work out is why some of the top universals (like the Denon 3930 etc) don't provide a digital input.  If that were the case I could upgrade my DVD player and get a great DAC as well. Anyone know of one of these?

[newtown]

I feel that al's suggestion of DAC + integrated would be one of your better options. For 2 ch I'm currently using a squeezebox > Redgum DAC > MF A308 and couldn't be happier.

[mozart]

newtown, on Jul 20 2007, 05:25 PM, said:

I feel that al's suggestion of DAC + integrated would be one of your better options. For 2 ch I'm currently using a squeezebox > Redgum DAC > MF A308 and couldn't be happier.

Sarting to think that it is the most cost effective option.  I'd be able to justify upgrading my DVD player if it had a digital in... but I'm yet to find one that does.

What Redgum, DAC are you using? .. does it come with a set of keys?   Sounds great

[mozart]

alebonau, on Jul 19 2007, 10:11 PM, said:

the CA 340C as a dedicated cd player woudl walk all over the 2807 I'd say mikey. that said the benefit of a dedicated cd player is not usually just the dacs but the analog output stage as well which is whats usually crook with dvd players for playign the format. that said little depends on the rest of the chain too. quite likely the 2807 would screw the cd sound. the likes of 2ch pre or integrated woudl be needed in my opinion to get the best out the 340c cd player.

Sorry to overpost on this, but there is on other big advantage that the Denon 3805 has over the squeezebox on its own and that it its ability to decode HDCD.  I have a number of HDCD's and feeding this digitally direct from the SB into the Denon results in retention of the HDCD format.  Are there any DAC's out there that can do this?  Is it worthwhile retaining?

[ozcal]

mozart, on Jul 20 2007, 05:35 PM, said:

Sorry to overpost on this, but there is on other big advantage that the Denon 3805 has over the squeezebox on its own and that it its ability to decode HDCD.  I have a number of HDCD's and feeding this digitally direct from the SB into the Denon results in retention of the HDCD format.  Are there any DAC's out there that can do this?  Is it worthwhile retaining?

Imo HDCD does provide an improvement however a better dac will provide greater improvment over all your stored music regardless of hdcd compatibility.
Gordon

[mozart]

ozcal, on Jul 20 2007, 09:31 PM, said:

Imo HDCD does provide an improvement however a better dac will provide greater improvment over all your stored music regardless of hdcd compatibility.
Gordon

Of course the other alternative is to use the Denon as a pre-amp (hence preserving the HDCD decoding) and run into a Elektra power amp or similar .. but I think the general consensus here is that the more improvements are likely to come from a the pre-amp stage and an integrated is a great way of doing it.  Anyone disagree?

[:)]

mozart, on Jul 20 2007, 08:50 PM, said:

Of course the other alternative is to use the Denon as a pre-amp (hence preserving the HDCD decoding) and run into a Elektra power amp or similar .. but I think the general consensus here is that the more improvements are likely to come from a the pre-amp stage and an integrated is a great way of doing it.  Anyone disagree?

yeah the elektra will give improvements as a power amp. but the pre stage of the denon 3805 will strangle any 2ch goodnes from the source. its why 2ch integrateds' are such good value provide a 2ch pre & pwr upgrade in one hit.

[Psycho!]

Al, seeing as you are the MF guru apparently.  What do you reckon about the pairing of the MF A5 with a Monitor Audio system based on the Gold series GS60. i.e. GS60/GS-FX/GSLCR ETC...  I have read that Monitor Audio almost exclusively use MF amps in their R&D and recommend them in their website FAQ.  The 250wpc of the A5 and the GS60, sweet or not in your opinion?  I would also be using a AVR (not decide on which one yet) as well as perhaps and Original CD player that has both s/s and Valve output.  {maybe even a shanling or Raysonic} I mean the A5 wont be too powerful for the MA's will it?

Am I on the right rack here so far??

cheers for any input/

[:)]

Psycho!, on Jul 21 2007, 12:29 PM, said:

Al, seeing as you are the MF guru apparently.  What do you reckon about the pairing of the MF A5 with a Monitor Audio system based on the Gold series GS60. i.e. GS60/GS-FX/GSLCR ETC...  I have read that Monitor Audio almost exclusively use MF amps in their R&D and recommend them in their website FAQ.  The 250wpc of the A5 and the GS60, sweet or not in your opinion?  I would also be using a AVR (not decide on which one yet) as well as perhaps and Original CD player that has both s/s and Valve output.  {maybe even a shanling or Raysonic} I mean the A5 wont be too powerful for the MA's will it?

Am I on the right rack here so far??

cheers for any input/

hehe not sure about the guru bit psycho but anyways. The 250Wpc mf a5 integrated and a5cd was what I heard the MA GS60 with at CAV and was mightyly impressed and posted about it back here.
http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=48550.

Didnt know about MA-MF connections but certainly made a very nice pairing I reckon. If you do get the a5 integrated do consider the a5 cd which I reckon has really nice synergy with the integrated. Too powerfull for the MA's ? nah nothign like it would be a really nice beautifully matched system I reckon.

ps if looking for a mf a5cd the digitalpower guy http://myworld.ebay....alpowersonline/ was selling one, dont think it sold, and a bargain for the moeny I reckon.

[newtown]

mozart, on Jul 20 2007, 06:09 PM, said:

Sarting to think that it is the most cost effective option.  I'd be able to justify upgrading my DVD player if it had a digital in... but I'm yet to find one that does.

What Redgum, DAC are you using? .. does it come with a set of keys?   Sounds great

The standard key was with their old models. I've got the upgraded RGCD5 version that comes with those new electronic proximity keys