76 replies to this topic

[arushan]

hey guys just moved both subs up front near mains ( Co-located ) and finally have resolved my big node around 40-50 hz... heres my response
from the main seating position, from 10hz-100hz no filters added

http://i21.photobuck...h/response1.jpg

[Drizt]

Looks pretty good.... well done...

[arushan]

Drizt, on Jun 3 2006, 10:33 AM, said:

Looks pretty good.... well done...

thanks mate.. major improvement is bass btw, more definement in each note..

[Drizt]

hehe all i have now is a subwoofer...  *and god forbid* - TV speakers

really got to buy these new speakers soon.

[RodN]

arushan, on Jun 3 2006, 10:27 AM, said:

hey guys just moved both subs up front near mains ( Co-located ) and finally have resolved my big node around 40-50 hz... heres my response
from the main seating position, from 10hz-100hz no filters added

http://i21.photobuck...h/response1.jpg

Effing hell mate that is the FLATTEST curve I have ever bloody seen with no eq. I would not be putting the BFD in cct with a curve like that. What are your room dimensions? I think you have hit on some sort of magic ratio.

Goes nice and deep too -well done!

[arushan]

nobby, on Jun 3 2006, 01:10 PM, said:

Effing hell mate that is the FLATTEST curve I have ever bloody seen with no eq. I would not be putting the BFD in cct with a curve like that. What are your room dimensions? I think you have hit on some sort of magic ratio.

Goes nice and deep too -well done!

Thanks buddy, funny you say because my room is a perfect square and a big one as well 5m by 5m, so acoustically its a dread, though i was kinda skeptical on my last placement which one one sub in between the mains (middle front wall), and the other sub (middle left wall), but i had this massive node around 40-50hz, in which i tried to boost by the bfd, and it just sounded worse. REMEMBER all people equalising with a bfd do not Boost a node, its sounds terrible, just remove all the peaks.

Now i have both of my subs in between my mains, ie. colocated so their is no timing or phase issues, so as you mentioned before i am not using any filters through the bfd, they are just handling the subs, a good tool to see whether the subs are maxing out or not, i guess just try moving your subs around, and keep well away from the corners if you hate the bloated boom. Bass notes even sound better now that their is no filters to obstruct its natural movements...

Good thread btw, gread read for sub calibration.....

[Mr_Gimlet]

Nobby or someone else in this thread, is tere a thread on what you can do to (i) measure room response and (ii) fix it without gadgets - one of the earlier posts referred to fixing up the room first - I have absolutely no experience in this at all

[arushan]

Mr_Gimlet, on Jun 3 2006, 03:55 PM, said:

Nobby or someone else in this thread, is tere a thread on what you can do to (i) measure room response and (ii) fix it without gadgets - one of the earlier posts referred to fixing up the room first - I have absolutely no experience in this at all

i think your referring to Acoustic treatments, in particular to lower frequencies, such as bass traps.. personally have not had any experience with these, but they do seem like a fairly cheap experiment, hopefully others can chime in here......

[Mr_Gimlet]

arushan, on Jun 3 2006, 05:03 PM, said:

i think your referring to Acoustic treatments, in particular to lower frequencies, such as bass traps.. personally have not had any experience with these, but they do seem like a fairly cheap experiment, hopefully others can chime in here......

i was more thinking of identifying problems, and then trying to fix them by moving stuff etc - happy to move this to a new thread rather than take over the Behringer thread

[norpus]

Mr_Gimlet, on Jun 3 2006, 05:06 PM, said:

i was more thinking of identifying problems, and then trying to fix them by moving stuff etc - happy to move this to a new thread rather than take over the Behringer thread

Good idea
And tell us what you think the probs are. Please include room description/dimensions and current speaker placements also

[Dlite]

Hi Norpus/Spearmint,
What do you need to just measure the response?

The software i can download, I already have the Radioshack SPL meter.  What else is required?  

thanks in advance

[norpus]

Dlite, on Jun 4 2006, 08:48 PM, said:

Hi Norpus/Spearmint,
What do you need to just measure the response?

The software i can download, I already have the Radioshack SPL meter.  What else is required?  

thanks in advance

I'll let spearmint answer that as he has all the gear we used

[Spearmint]

Dlite, on Jun 4 2006, 08:48 PM, said:

Hi Norpus/Spearmint,
What do you need to just measure the response?

The software i can download, I already have the Radioshack SPL meter.  What else is required?  

thanks in advance

All you need is a computer (with soundcard) and some interconnects.

[b&wbynature]

Hi all,

      New forum member here so please be nice to me....    Have been reading this thread with great interest, both on the SVS subs and the Behringer product.  A colleague of mine and myself were having a chat about this product this morning and pondering how it would benefit our system.  As he is the technical guru here (we are in electrical retail), he was concerned that the unit is 2 channel and that he felt the unit was more suited to tuning subs.  Is this in fact the case or is it suitable to fine tune your whole home theatre application, in my instance B & W 603 S3 fronts, B & W 601 S3 rears SCR600 centre and driving them is a Denon AVR-2807 amp or like my colleague is it mainly beneficial only for subs???

             All feedback would be greatly appreciated.


                     Ashley.

** Oh and as a new poster didn't want to hijack the SVS thread, as my interest in these subs is increasing vastly.  Cheers.

[Spearmint]

Welcome to the forum.

IMO the Behringer BFD1124P & FBQ2496 combined with REW are better suited to taming your subs in-room response. Remember EQ is only a bandaid solution for the primary listening position. Room treatments are a better option if they are within your budget and they suit your décor.

[mgrobins]

Have you experience with both Behringer models Spearmint? I'm considering grabbing one to sort my system out a bit.

I'd be keen to try and use it to smooth the transition between my sub and other speakers as I think the crossover between them creates a hump.
Hopefully my new pre-pro will help this as I can adjust the crossover points.

Marantz and others seem to be including EQ for the entire speaker system in products now. I wonder how well it's performed though and how much is done beyond level and delay settings. subs are very dependant on position and room attributes so I can see the benefit of EQ there but i'm not sure how well the REW will let me measure my subs integratin with my other speakers.

[norpus]

mgrobins, on Sep 2 2006, 05:53 PM, said:

Have you experience with both Behringer models Spearmint? I'm considering grabbing one to sort my system out a bit.

I'd be keen to try and use it to smooth the transition between my sub and other speakers as I think the crossover between them creates a hump.
Hopefully my new pre-pro will help this as I can adjust the crossover points.

Marantz and others seem to be including EQ for the entire speaker system in products now. I wonder how well it's performed though and how much is done beyond level and delay settings. subs are very dependant on position and room attributes so I can see the benefit of EQ there but i'm not sure how well the REW will let me measure my subs integratin with my other speakers.

Yes he has....
Although you should  have looked harder at the 2nd sub option, IMO. Room treatment is one option for all frequencies, and multiple subs is for bass. EQ is only a band aid for other more fundamental room issues, as Spearmint has mentioned.

[mgrobins]

norpus, on Sep 2 2006, 06:14 PM, said:

Yes he has....
Although you should  have looked harder at the 2nd sub option, IMO. Room treatment is one option for all frequencies, and multiple subs is for bass. EQ is only a band aid for other more fundamental room issues, as Spearmint has mentioned.

Well you sold it now so I guess that's off the cards . Hope it helps get that second IB for you.

I'm aware of the benefits to having 2 subs and how basic room treatment can assist higher frequency behaviour. EQ is just another tool and may be more inexpensive/achievable for me in my current locality.

I'm simply investigating all of my options and weighing up the way ahead. No doubt the second sub will make an appearance - it's just a matter of what and when (and yes your asw was probably a good choice that passed me by but I've just bought an amp and pre-pro so the wallet is a bit lite hehe).

[norpus]

mgrobins, on Sep 3 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

Well you sold it now so I guess that's off the cards . Hope it helps get that second IB for you.

I'm aware of the benefits to having 2 subs and how basic room treatment can assist higher frequency behaviour. EQ is just another tool and may be more inexpensive/achievable for me in my current locality.

I'm simply investigating all of my options and weighing up the way ahead. No doubt the second sub will make an appearance - it's just a matter of what and when (and yes your asw was probably a good choice that passed me by but I've just bought an amp and pre-pro so the wallet is a bit lite hehe).

no worries, best of luck with future choices. Its all good

[:)]

mgrobins, on Sep 3 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

Well you sold it now so I guess that's off the cards . Hope it helps get that second IB for you.

I'm aware of the benefits to having 2 subs and how basic room treatment can assist higher frequency behaviour. EQ is just another tool and may be more inexpensive/achievable for me in my current locality.

I'm simply investigating all of my options and weighing up the way ahead. No doubt the second sub will make an appearance - it's just a matter of what and when (and yes your asw was probably a good choice that passed me by but I've just bought an amp and pre-pro so the wallet is a bit lite hehe).

what amp and pre-pro did you end up going mg?.

[Wacko02]

b&wbynature, on Sep 2 2006, 12:07 PM, said:

Hi all,

      New forum member here so please be nice to me....    Have been reading this thread with great interest, both on the SVS subs and the Behringer product.  A colleague of mine and myself were having a chat about this product this morning and pondering how it would benefit our system.  As he is the technical guru here (we are in electrical retail), he was concerned that the unit is 2 channel and that he felt the unit was more suited to tuning subs.  Is this in fact the case or is it suitable to fine tune your whole home theatre application, in my instance B & W 603 S3 fronts, B & W 601 S3 rears SCR600 centre and driving them is a Denon AVR-2807 amp or like my colleague is it mainly beneficial only for subs???

             All feedback would be greatly appreciated.
                     Ashley.

** Oh and as a new poster didn't want to hijack the SVS thread, as my interest in these subs is increasing vastly.  Cheers.

There was a discussion somewhere on the built in EQ's in the new amps these days and apparently they are quite good. I think in your case Ashley, the 2807's EQ ability would be good enough for the mains and surrounds, but the Behringer would assist in sorting out any sub problems. I think the AVR EQ's only go down to 60Hz anyway which means they really aren't taking into account the sub.

[norpus]

Wacko02, on Sep 3 2006, 07:37 PM, said:

There was a discussion somewhere on the built in EQ's in the new amps these days and apparently they are quite good. I think in your case Ashley, the 2807's EQ ability would be good enough for the mains and surrounds, but the Behringer would assist in sorting out any sub problems. I think the AVR EQ's only go down to 60Hz anyway which means they really aren't taking into account the sub.

Agreed, the denons do a good job

[:)]

Wacko02, on Sep 3 2006, 07:37 PM, said:

There was a discussion somewhere on the built in EQ's in the new amps these days and apparently they are quite good. I think in your case Ashley, the 2807's EQ ability would be good enough for the mains and surrounds, but the Behringer would assist in sorting out any sub problems. I think the AVR EQ's only go down to 60Hz anyway which means they really aren't taking into account the sub.

AVRs seem to struggle with even just auto level setting let alone tryign to auto room eq. I found the HK's Ezset auto level setup pretty much useless and way off. And we've all read the people posting re the wacky settings theyve ended up with due to auto room eq and had to fix up with using a spl meter. Personally if avrs cant get even get level setup right I dont think I'd trust with auto room eq.

[mgrobins]

given that mains and surrounds aren't so picky on position as a sub due to the higher freq's, what benefit/need is there to provide EQ to them?

Eg: mains with x-over at 60Hz, surrounds at 80Hz....will EQ help flatten responses on these and when does it become "necessary"?

I didn't realise the behringer models had sufficient channels to do fronts and surrounds either .

[norpus]

mgrobins, on Sep 4 2006, 09:25 AM, said:

given that mains and surrounds aren't so picky on position as a sub due to the higher freq's, what benefit/need is there to provide EQ to them?

Eg: mains with x-over at 60Hz, surrounds at 80Hz....will EQ help flatten responses on these and when does it become "necessary"?

I didn't realise the behringer models had sufficient channels to do fronts and surrounds either .

Whilst I can see where you are pointing here, mains positioning is certainly important also, not just the sub bass. Bass and midbass is also affected by positioning from walls etc. Subs are also not always hard to position - it depends on the room

Trying to EQ all your speakers is probably impossible, apart from in one spot or an average of positions like the Audussey does.
The subbass EQ done by the behringer and sms1 are single position only at your selected listening position. Move your head to one side and unfortunately it aint perfect anymore. One of the pitfalls of using EQ as a quickfix, as it is merely a bandaid in comparison with multiple subs and/or room treatments to remove standing waves (bass traps and the like which some forum members are finding good initial results with currently)

Whilst when your mains are designed and tested in an anechoic room, they may be close to flat response. It does not pay to look at what they do in a real room - there will be peaks and troughs all over the shop due to room interactions - and if you move the mic, they can shift too    
So yes I agree there is some scope to use the easy and quick avr autosetup to do an initial pass on distances, phase, dB levels and maybe EQ. After that, I rely on my meter and my ears

There are many behringers for many different applications. I only use 3. Some here use 5. There are many more again.