480 replies to this topic

[Smacca]

DrP, on Apr 23 2011, 08:25 AM, said:

Hmm, a person with an authorised ('activated') VAST receiver is able to receive GWN7, WIN and TEN WEST.  I guess reality wins again.

Sure does. Working nicely on my VAST box.

[alanh]

Smacca,
Your VAST box is running in the unencrypted mode so it is not operating using a VAST signal.
The quote above says that VAST has not started yet. Once this happens you will loose your commercial signals you are receiving now. GWN/WIN/TENWest will have no need for the satellite signal they are using now. They will have to use VAST to provide all of the programs to their triplet transmitter sites.

Since the transmitter installation crews are just about finished in regional Victoria, will move onto regional Qld for the second half of this year and regional NSW for all of next year.
The only real break is the first half of 2011 where there is the balance of Tasmania to install. That would be the easiest time to install WA.

AlanH

[Smacca]

Believe whatever you like, mate. People reading this know who to trust.

[alanh]

Smacca,
Keep believing that you have VAST if you wish, but don't mislead other into buying equipment for VAST as you have done.

"We recommend that you obtain permission to access the VAST service prior to purchasing any equipment." Digital Ready Website.

Once WA VAST starts it will be advertised so every one will know.

AlanH

[DrP]

Hmm.  From previous advices issued, by a certain well known forum member, I could have sworn that the reason one should not purchase a receiver was financial not technological.  I guess this is another example of reality winning out.

Edited by DrP, 23 April 2011 - 03:53 PM.

[Smacca]

alanh, on Apr 23 2011, 01:31 PM, said:

"We recommend that you obtain permission to access the VAST service prior to purchasing any equipment." Digital Ready Website

And if permission is granted?

[DrP]

Don't be silly smacca, you have been told that the VAST service can not be activated in WA.  That you can legitimately purchase a VAST receiver, apply for activation for the WA zone, have it (the card) activated for the WA zone and then be able to watch WA programming is completely beside the point.  It doesn't matter that a VAST receiver can not be 'tuned' to programming that the service operator has deemed you shalt not see.  It doesn't matter that all VAST receivers must support MPEG-2 video.  It doesn't matter that the WA programming can not be viewed on a VAST receiver that has not been 'activated'.  It seems that nothing matters apart fromwhat a single well known forum member says.

Isn't reality wonderful?  

Edited by DrP, 23 April 2011 - 04:14 PM.

[Smacca]

I'm just glad I can finally bring Kalgoorlie-grade digital with me wherever I go. Poor folks in Bunbury still have to wait

Edited by Smacca, 23 April 2011 - 04:34 PM.

[Tassie Devil]

alanh, on Apr 23 2011, 03:31 PM, said:

Smacca,
Keep believing that you have VAST if you wish, but don't mislead other into buying equipment for VAST as you have done.

"We recommend that you obtain permission to access the VAST service prior to purchasing any equipment." Digital Ready Website.

Once WA VAST starts it will be advertised so every one will know.

AlanH

Alan I am VERY perplexed about where you are coming from.  I guess that like most of us here you are trying to help out and give information that seems to be missing.

However, if I understand what you told us some time ago, you are (like me) well and truly retired and in your 70's, and (unlike me) gained considerable technical expertise in analog TV broadcasting, BUT that was with the ABC.  So it appears you do not have current working in the digital field and have absolutely NO connection to the Government Department involved with VAST OR the commercial interests which appear to be calling the shots and making money from it.

So some further questions:

1. Why do you defend the position of the commercial interests which appear in conflict with what the rest of us would like to see?
2. From what level of expertise can you make the technical pronouncements about VAST, some of which do appear to be incorrect?

All this puzzles me greatly because you do appear to be in conflict with others here who are obviously technically up to date with digital TV, yet you argue passionately for the VAST cause.  And I cannot see why you take this attitude.

John

[Smacca]

Tassie Devil, on Apr 23 2011, 03:35 PM, said:

Alan I am VERY perplexed about where you are coming from.  I guess that like most of us here you are trying to help out and give information that seems to be missing.

However, if I understand what you told us some time ago, you are (like me) well and truly retired and in your 70's, and (unlike me) gained considerable technical expertise in analog TV broadcasting, BUT that was with the ABC.  So it appears you do not have current working in the digital field and have absolutely NO connection to the Government Department involved with VAST OR the commercial interests which appear to be calling the shots and making money from it.

So some further questions:

1. Why do you defend the position of the commercial interests which appear in conflict with what the rest of us would like to see?
2. From what level of expertise can you make the technical pronouncements about VAST, some of which do appear to be incorrect?

All this puzzles me greatly because you do appear to be in conflict with others here who are obviously technically up to date with digital TV, yet you argue passionately for the VAST cause.  And I cannot see why you take this attitude.

John

He does this all the time. The proof is on MySwitch but I doubt he read it all. Even though he was completely wrong, his new focus is the line which states "We recommend that you obtain permission to access the VAST service prior to purchasing any equipment." - which doesn't mean everyone is denied access at all. He seems to think it does, however.

Usually he goes quiet, like now. He probably won't reply for a few days.

[Smacca]

Alan,

You might be interested in the following video:

[alanh]

Tassie Devil
I am not in my seventies or even older like you. I am not retired.

I am only quoting what the DBCDE and the ACMA are saying. WA VAST has not started like SMacca has been saying. He is watching unencrypted transmitter feeds. As you are aware VAST is an encrypted system in which an authorisation key is required from the broadcasters to unlock it. See the my latest post from Optus about receivers of VAST. It also states it for Eastern and Central Australia. As I said to you you will not get authorisation for VAST until the beginning of 2013 because you are in the licence are for Mt Barrow. in Get the best reception - Regional Tasmania has a link to the map showing the areas of Tasmania who can get authorisation now. You may not agree with it or the reasons but it is true. So for blackspots in regional WA authorisation will not be activated until the beginning of the second half of 3013.

As you have found out in line with the post I put up earlier the rules are that in licence areas which already have commercial DTV with analog, you cannot get authorisation for blackspots until 6 months prior to the analog switch off. This also applies in WA.

Since the start date on the Digital Ready website now says early 2011 and now last half of 2011 there is no guarantee it won't slide again. As I have pointed out the transmitter installation teams are busy in other parts of Australia. The commercial stations in regional WA only have one high powered digital transmitter. This was installed when WIN TV started when they were faced with a choice, buy an expensive high powered analog transmitter for a few years use to have to replace it with a digital one. Instead they bought a digital one and used STBs and low powered transmitters in the towns in the coverage area.

If you look at the Regional WA geographic forum. There has been a huge number of promises for a start date none of which have been honoured. The Bunbury transmitter covers a population of Hobart and is yet to get any commercial DTV. There is only 2 analog broadcasters.  How long has Hobart had DTV is it 10 years at least?

The Minister must have told GWN/WIN that they had to start DTV terrestrial broadcasting so they did it in the cheapest possible way. They used the only high powered commercial transmitter and the rest are very low powered. So they have not installed any high powered transmitters in Bunbury and Mt Barker and medium power at Geraldton and Wagin. The rest of their network are either low powered or very low powered.

AlanH

[Smacca]

alanh, on Apr 23 2011, 08:23 PM, said:

WA VAST has not started like SMacca has been saying.

Why does MySwitch say, and I quote, "You can now apply for access to receive the first stage of the Western VAST service if you are already receiving the ‘Aurora’ [...] The first stage of the Western VAST service includes all of the ABC and SBS digital channels, as well as Golden West Network, WIN and Ten." That is quoted from My Switch. Are MySwitch and SMacca all lieing? For what benefit?

Edited by Smacca, 23 April 2011 - 10:39 PM.

[vk6xlr]

alanh, on Apr 23 2011, 01:31 PM, said:

Smacca,
Keep believing that you have VAST if you wish, but don't mislead other into buying equipment for VAST as you have done.

"We recommend that you obtain permission to access the VAST service prior to purchasing any equipment." Digital Ready Website.

Once WA VAST starts it will be advertised so every one will know.

AlanH

AnalH,
Obviously you have NO idea what you're on about!
I know several people in Geraldton who now have VAST up and running legally.  Yes, I've seen it with my own eyes.

Sciteq sent an email to all dealers on 19/04/2011 and it states:
"Today the the new satellite service VAST started accepting activations for WA services under 2 conditions.
1) you have an existing aurora card registered with Optus
2) your complete the registration online through http://myswitch.digitalready.gov.au/ by entering you location and clicking the 'satellite eligibility tab'.

The new VAST service offers WA channels WIN, GWN, Ten West as well as ABC1, ABC2, ABC3, ABC New, SBS1 HD and SBS2. At the moment only the SD commercial channels are available. The full commercial station bouquets including one HD eleven, 7mate 7two, GEM & GO will not be available until later in the year."

So you're trying to tell us that Sciteq and myswitch.digitalready.gov.au are lying and only you know better?
Hahaha, you're such a joke!

[Smacca]

The table at the bottom of this page on MySwitch even hints at an early 2011 launch, so what makes you think they've been wrong this whole time? Have you tried the address search funtion using a remote WA address? Have you seen the information visitors to the MySwitch site are presented with? It all clearly states that Western VAST is now online, launching in two seperate stages.

You've been presented with video evidence and links to the government's MySwitch website. What more evidence do you need to understand that Western VAST has launched and is now accepting applications?

[GoForMoe]

Smacca, on Apr 23 2011, 08:46 PM, said:

Alan,

You might be interested in the following video:

The reflections are all wrong! I call photoshop. VAST doesn't exist in WA and won't until the middle of 2013!

On a serious note, I've not found the S38c licence application yet and therefore they've yet to nominate their designated capital city for service equivalence. They have 6 months after doing that to broadcast all the associated digital multichannels under the terms of the S38c licences. The fact that the mySwitch website is up and that they've activated your smartcard means it is certainly the VAST WA service you're watching, but the official licences seem to not be in place yet - which is logical given the two stage deployment.

[Smacca]

GoForMoe, on Apr 23 2011, 10:11 PM, said:

The reflections are all wrong! I call photoshop. VAST doesn't exist in WA and won't until the middle of 2013!

Crap. It was the GWN7 watermark sticky-taped to the screen, wasn't it!

GoForMoe, on Apr 23 2011, 10:11 PM, said:

On a serious note, I've not found the S38c licence application yet and therefore they've yet to nominate their designated capital city for service equivalence. They have 6 months after doing that to broadcast all the associated digital multichannels under the terms of the S38c licences. The fact that the mySwitch website is up and that they've activated your smartcard means it is certainly the VAST WA service you're watching, but the official licences seem to not be in place yet - which is logical given the two stage deployment.

Spot on. Everything ties in with Bunbury's July terrestrial launch, which is all 16 channels. The only way they're getting there is through VAST Stage 2. Whether they'll wait until a few more areas are switched on before deploying Stage 2 to the satellite viewers is another thing, but they're saying it'll be in the second half of 2011.

Edited by Smacca, 24 April 2011 - 12:26 AM.

[alanh]

Get the best reception- Southern WA
Get the best reception  - Northern WA
These posts now show links to the parts of WA which currently are in the zone for Remote coverage by Aurora and for VAST. The white areas are not elegible unless they are deemed to be blackspots. You will note that the maps are generated by the ACMA.

You will note that Geraldton, Northhampton, the town of Mullewa, Minginew, Morowa, Dongara and Three Springs are in the Geraldton Licence area so the quote below applies
"You will still be able to apply for access to all of the channels on the VAST service if you believe that local conditions prevent you from having adequate reception of all terrestrial commercial digital television services available in your area. However, an application on this basis will only be accepted after applications for the full suite of commercial services of VAST open in the second half of this year." Digital Ready website.

"Other viewers can apply to access the Western VAST service from the second half of 2011. Please check mySwitch closer to this time to re-check your VAST service eligibility, if you want all the channels" Digital Ready Website

As quoted above "If the mySwitch Terrestrial Coverage information box is indicating that you will be able to receive all of the digital television services from your local commercial broadcasters then it is likely that you would not be automatically eligible for the stage two Western VAST service."

"We recommend that you obtain permission to access the VAST service prior to purchasing any equipment." Digital Ready Website

So the Commercial TV stations need to keep the viewers in the respective licence areas except Remote watching their terrestrial signals so that they can guarantee for example a Geraldton advertiser will reach the whole audience. This is particularly the case if satellite receivers are authorised within these licence areas prior to terrestrial transmissions commencing.

So if anyone who is not in the yellow part of the above maps buys a VAST receiver, there is no guarantee they will be authorised.

So if retailers of satellite receivers recommend that all viewers outside Perth can buy a satellite receiver and they expect to be able to use it for years, then it's deceptive conduct if they don't live in the yellow parts of the maps mentioned above.

VAST receiver can receive DVB-S and MPEG-2 which is used by Aurora and transmitter feeds. If the DBCDE wants to call access to transmitter feeds VAST stage 1 so be it, the only thing you have gained is TENWest with some duplicates on WIN. So the true VAST may start by the end of the year. However if GWN & WIN do not have their terrestrial transmiiter network running by then, nothing will change, because blackspots cannot be proved.


True VAST is like the one in the East and Central Australia. There is a remote licence area on other maps shown in yellow. These locations are all allowed to get full VAST without qualification. Southern Cross Broadcasting and Imparja are currently installing and testing triplets of transmitters in Alice Springs and Mt Isa. Anyone in those cities can also get VAST receivers authorised because the programs are identical because all of these locations are in the Northern Remote Licence area.

It is blackspots will not be enabled until 6 months prior to analog switchoff. This is happening now and for regional WA it will be the middle of 3013.

Its a matter of getting the whole story.

AlanH

[mtv]

If AnalH actually had a VAST box, or even understood how tight the encryption is and the limitations of what can be received with it, he should know you can't receive anything other than VAST transmissions with it, whether they are unencrypted or not.

The UEC VAST box is not capable of receiving and displaying transmitter feeds... only direct-to-home VAST services for which the VAST smartcard has been authorised to decode.... FACT!!!

Seeing is believing (for most people) in the real world, a world which AnalH refuses to visit.

[Smacca]

So Alan, you admit that there are viewers who are eligible for Western VAST in WA? The point I have been trying to make this whole time?

[alanh]

The signal containing GWN SD, WIN SD and TENWest is primary provided for the 5 transmitter sites in WA. These transmitters have only come on air because the DBCDE has said that the WA commercial stations had to start digital transmission. So they put one transmitter in each of the WA licence areas.

VAST is a 16 program service the Digital Ready site said is yet to start. This is what VAST is in the Eastern States.

If Optus wants to add encryption thats fine, because these tiny transmitters (excluding Mawson) operate from VAST receivers.

Recommending people get a receiver now which then won't be authorised later this year when the real VAST starts is leading people to spend money when they have been warned that they may be switched off.

As I said if SMACCA is within the official range of the Kalgoorlie DTV transmitter you will not be licenced for the full VAST and the pseudo VAST will be disabled leaving you with no VAST reception.

AlanH

[Smacca]

alanh, on Apr 23 2011, 11:03 PM, said:

The signal containing GWN SD, WIN SD and TENWest is primary provided for the 5 transmitter sites in WA. These transmitters have only come on air because the DBCDE has said that the WA commercial stations had to start digital transmission. So they put one transmitter in each of the WA licence areas.

That's incorrect. You are more than welcome to contact GWN's engineering department. They will absolutely deny what you are saying. Optus D1 is the only source of digital terrestrial services in WA. The three WA channels on VAST are yet to be used as terrestrial services. Just like the Central VAST channels are yet to be used for terrestrial services. THEY WILL SOON, but they are yet to be used as terrestrial services. So when you say I am receiving "transmitter feeds", you are completely wrong.

alanh, on Apr 23 2011, 11:03 PM, said:

VAST is a 16 program service the Digital Ready site said is yet to start. This is what VAST is in the Eastern States.

For once, would you stop assuming Western VAST is not true because it fails to match Central VAST? It doesn't matter whether all 16 channels are available or not, they're allowing eligible viewers access to them.

alanh, on Apr 23 2011, 11:03 PM, said:

If Optus wants to add encryption thats fine, because these tiny transmitters (excluding Mawson) operate from VAST receivers.

So you're saying Mawson is the only site in the entire state that uses Optus D1? You're wrong. All 4 transmitters source their feeds from Optus D1, not just Mawson.

alanh, on Apr 23 2011, 11:03 PM, said:

Recommending people get a receiver now which then won't be authorised later this year when the real VAST starts is leading people to spend money when they have been warned that they may be switched off.

I never recommended that. In fact, in the Geographical forum for Regional WA, I clearly state you should get pre-authorisation before buying a box. Other than that, I have never mentioned nor encouraged anyone to buy first and apply later.

alanh, on Apr 23 2011, 11:03 PM, said:

As I said if SMACCA is within the official range of the Kalgoorlie DTV transmitter you will not be licenced for the full VAST and the pseudo VAST will be disabled leaving you with no VAST reception.

Pseudo VAST or not, Western VAST has launched one way or another. It took one and a half pages of your complete and utter crap to convince you of this. Case closed. Go back to your analog forums and stir some sh!t in there.

[vk6xlr]

alanh, on Apr 23 2011, 11:03 PM, said:

The signal containing GWN SD, WIN SD and TENWest is primary provided for the 5 transmitter sites in WA. These transmitters have only come on air because the DBCDE has said that the WA commercial stations had to start digital transmission. So they put one transmitter in each of the WA licence areas.

VAST is a 16 program service the Digital Ready site said is yet to start. This is what VAST is in the Eastern States.

If Optus wants to add encryption thats fine, because these tiny transmitters (excluding Mawson) operate from VAST receivers.

Recommending people get a receiver now which then won't be authorised later this year when the real VAST starts is leading people to spend money when they have been warned that they may be switched off.

Get real!
You've been told many times the GWN, WIN and TENWest feed comes from the D1 satellite not C1/D3.  Obviously Optus isn't conforming to your way.  They MUST be in the wrong.

There is NO pseudo VAST!  As has been stated, and I'll state it again, "The new VAST service offers WA channels WIN, GWN, Ten West as well as ABC1, ABC2, ABC3, ABC New, SBS1 HD and SBS2. At the moment only the SD commercial channels are available. The full commercial station bouquets including one HD eleven, 7mate 7two, GEM & GO will not be available until later in the year."
How can you not understand this simple statement unless its simplicity is beyond you?

It PLAINLY reads: for the moment, GWN, WIN and TENwest is available.  The rest will follow later.

Funny, if this wasn't true, I wonder why my boss is about to order his first pallet load of UEC DSD4121 decoders for the country WA market?  Beats me!

It's about time AnalH starts to live in the real world and sees things how they are, not how he wants them to be.

Edited by vk6xlr, 24 April 2011 - 01:30 AM.

[davmel]

alanh, on Apr 24 2011, 01:03 AM, said:

The signal containing GWN SD, WIN SD and TENWest is primary provided for the 5 transmitter sites in WA. These transmitters have only come on air because the DBCDE has said that the WA commercial stations had to start digital transmission. So they put one transmitter in each of the WA licence areas.

Alanh you annoying irritating stubborn asshole. FFS, please do some research before posting!

The commercial WA feeds are on Optus D1 (transponder 12424H etc). They are all ENCRYPTED.

The VAST WA channels (which have been operating for nearly 6 months now) are on Optus C1 transponder 12367V. They are also ENCRYPTED.
A VAST box can ONLY view the channels on the 6 VAST transponders of Optus C1, not D1 so please stop with the endless BULLSHIT!

If you at least once in your ignorant life ever bothered to use some sat hardware to scan and analyse the channels available you'll discover that the commercial WA channels operating on C1 12367V are indeed part of the VAST bouquet. They are not used as commercial feeds.

[DrP]

Smacca, on Apr 23 2011, 08:46 PM, said:

You might be interested in the following video:

Brilliant!  


_{Of course, since Smacca is just me posting under a different name, at least according to alanh, it goes without saying that I would say the youtube clip was brilliant}  

Edited by DrP, 24 April 2011 - 08:18 AM.