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#1 Skid_MacMarx

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 09:05 PM

I don't watch much tabloid FTA but I came across this program tonight for the first time. I was amazed by how liberties were being exploited for entertainment. And, I thought what are the rights here in regards to the filming and broadcasting if someone objects. I noticed a few were actually innocent of any crime. And, i wonder if one young fellow would have made it worse for himself if cameras and lights were not pointed in his direction.
The following rules apply to the UK, how does the law work here?

. . .concerns about this type of reality TV filming are understandable. Quite apart from the rubbishy television they produce, there is something unsettling about making entertainment out of the police's interaction with the public. There is also the fear that officers might act up for the cameras, or perhaps be more concerned about the state of their hair than about doing their job properly.

But the presence of an independent camera crew filming people in a public place does not alter either the police's duties towards you or your obligations to co-operate with the police. The real issue is what happens to the footage afterwards.

. . .If you object to the presence of a camera crew then there is an argument that "every reasonable effort to minimise embarrassment" should include asking the cameras to be switched off, but the police would not be able to force them to stop filming if they are doing it lawfully – after all there are freedom of expression issues here. If you feel that the police are encouraging or facilitating the filming despite your valid objections then it is arguable that would amount to a breach of the code. This would not give rise to civil or criminal liability on the part of the police, but it might provide grounds for a complaint of misconduct to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

. . .There are circumstances in which the mere taking of a photograph or video footage will engage the right to private and family life under Article 8 of the European convention on human rights (ECHR) – see, for example, Wood v Metropolitan Police, court of appeal – but in general if the person concerned is in a public place there will be no reasonable expectation of privacy, and any issues under Article 8 will only arise when it comes to the publication of the material.

The publication of footage taken of an identifiable person being questioned, searched or arrested by the police may give rise to a claim against the television company or broadcaster. If the Article 8 rights of the person are engaged this can lead to a claim against a private company through the law of confidence, as the House of Lords confirmed in Campbell v Mirror Group Newspapers.

However, as indicated above, publication will also involve the exercise of the right to freedom of expression under Article 10 ECHR. In these types of cases the courts have to carry out a balancing exercise. One key factor is likely to be whether the person has been convicted of the offence for which he or she was searched or arrested. If there has been a conviction, arguably the right to freedom of expression would outweigh the privacy rights because the conviction will be a matter of public record and the courts will be reluctant to find that privacy rights are engaged by the arrest or apprehension of someone who has committed a criminal offence. If, however, the person has not been convicted because the police did not take any action or there are ongoing criminal proceedings, it would probably be unlawful to publish the footage without the person's consent, whether because of a breach of Article 8 or because it would amount to contempt of court. If the person is not identifiable from the footage, however, no privacy issue will arise in relation to publication.

So in light of all that, probably the best way of dealing with this type of situation is to co-operate with the police but make it clear that this is 15 minutes of fame that you could do without, so the footage should not be published without your consent.

http://www.guardian....ning-tv-privacy

#2 pgdownload

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 10:55 PM

I suspect many of the events shown on this type of show do wait until a conviction/fine is applied. But before that the media are extremely good at obtaining signed permission from most people through a number of tricks. In a small percent of cases a minor digitising of the face is resorted to.

In Oz we had an interesting case recently when booze buses became able to test for some drugs. On the first operational night you can imagine the media frenzy surrounding the first bus out. Some guy eventually tested positive for conibus or some such. Had his face plastered over every media outlet. The subsequent confirmation blood test indicated he was drug free and it was a false positive.

As an aside, you might like to look up an Oz show called Frontline. Very funny and very informative.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

#3 Chopsus

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 12:23 AM

I'd always assumed that those shown had signed release forms ..... those with fuzzed out faces refused to ... therefore most had agreed?

#4 jsmith

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 11:21 AM

Fuzzed out faces would likely be due to the matter being thrown out court, or a sustained objection to the material going to air without the face being removed.

I personally seriously disagree with the notion that it's ok to destroy someones reputation and reveal their identity on TV or in the media simply because they were convicted of something. People should still have their privacy respected even if they have done something wrong. Of course high profile crimes/cases are a different matter, what I refer to is small matters such as what is often shown.

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#5 Chopsus

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 11:43 AM

I agree when it comes to entertainment - but I;m a big advocate for all crimes to be a matter of public record.  I should not have to pay to find out a prospective employee has convictions for theft, nor should I not be able to find out there is a pedophile living in my street.

There should be no such thing as anonymity when it comes offenses that should be considered when evaluating someones character - especially sexual offenses and white collar crime.

#6 jsmith

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 12:14 PM

View PostChopsus, on May 20 2011, 11:43 AM, said:

I'm a big advocate for all crimes to be a matter of public record.

Well convictions are on a public record of course...

View PostChopsus, on May 20 2011, 11:43 AM, said:

I should not have to pay to find out a prospective employee has convictions for theft, nor should I not be able to find out there is a pedophile living in my street.

I agree, but do you mean pay a search fee or...? I thought the fees charged for a search of police records were minimal.

JSmith  :ninja:

#7 Chopsus

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 12:23 PM

View Postjsmith, on May 20 2011, 12:14 PM, said:

Well convictions are on a public record of course...



I agree, but do you mean pay a search fee or...? I thought the fees charged for a search of police records were minimal.

JSmith  :ninja:


By public record I mean we should be able to search these ourselves, then they would be truly public record.

Last I heard it was $50+ for National Police check and the person requesting it had to have the permission of the person they were inquiring about - that's not a public record if you ask me.

#8 pgdownload

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 01:04 PM

View PostChopsus, on May 20 2011, 12:23 PM, said:

By public record I mean we should be able to search these ourselves, then they would be truly public record. Last I heard it was $50+ for National Police check and the person requesting it had to have the permission of the person they were inquiring about - that's not a public record if you ask me.
Its a complex area. All sorts of pitfalls to a free public system.

For one the media would have a field day aggregating where criminals live - whole suburbs could be stigmatised.

The chances of false positives would be extremely high. Everyone might quitely run checks and you'd never know some mistake was why no one would employ you.

Of course everyone would run checks on neighbous and friends co-workers and relatives. In many cases the information could be detrimental to all involved.

There's also many situations where the conviction name is highly misleading.

I think the current arrangement is proabably a fair compromise between the rights of individuals and the rights of the community.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

#9 Chopsus

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 01:19 PM

View Postpgdownload, on May 20 2011, 01:04 PM, said:

For one the media would have a field day aggregating where criminals live - whole suburbs could be stigmatised.

Like this isn't done already based on crime stats and info from ABS

View Postpgdownload, on May 20 2011, 01:04 PM, said:

I think the current arrangement is proabably a fair compromise between the rights of individuals and the rights of the community.

Sorry, I don't agree that a criminal has any right to privacy regarding the crime they committed (and we don't have rights here in Aus anyway).

Privacy is something that those of us who don't commit crimes are entitled to, and more so those of us who do the right thing should be entitled to know the names of those who don't abide by the same laws as the rest of us.

The listing of Court Penalties in a local paper goes a long way to providing a disincentive to others and forms part of the penalty.

Edited by Chopsus, 20 May 2011 - 01:20 PM.


#10 doodlefeatures

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 03:46 PM

Not sure if this is the same type of thing - I came back from o/s recently and coming through customs there was a sign saying something like "channel 7 are filming for one of their terrible shows, if you don't want to be filmed let the producers know".
I didn't see any cameras or anything though so they must have been taking a break, or maybe because our flight was from Hawaii and not Thailand or Colombia they didn't bother with us

#11 pgdownload

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 03:53 PM

View Postdoodlefeatures, on May 20 2011, 03:46 PM, said:

Not sure if this is the same type of thing - I came back from o/s recently and coming through customs there was a sign saying something like "channel 7 are filming for one of their terrible shows, if you don't want to be filmed let the producers know".
I'd be fairly sure such opt out clauses probably wouldn't stack up in court. However many public places (shops, casinos, etc.) now seem to post signs at their entrances stating you may be filmed and that film might be used for promotional purposes. These ones seem to state you've given your consent if you enter.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

#12 Skid_MacMarx

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 03:53 PM

Reminds me of two articles, on the same day, in the Newcastle Herald, a few years ago.. first about a single mum on the central coast who committed centrelink fraud .. she was overpaid $8000, and the second,  a WA bank manager who stole millions to feed a gambling habit.
Yes, you guessed it .. the single mum got full front page treatment.. address published, very large photo  etc. and the bank manager received a paragraph at the back of the paper (not even a photo).
I can assure you, I would have loved to have to the opportunity to confront the editor about that.

Edited by Skid_MacMarx, 20 May 2011 - 03:55 PM.


#13 Chopsus

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 04:34 PM

View Postpgdownload, on May 20 2011, 03:53 PM, said:

I'd be fairly sure such opt out clauses probably wouldn't stack up in court. However many public places (shops, casinos, etc.) now seem to post signs at their entrances stating you may be filmed and that film might be used for promotional purposes. These ones seem to state you've given your consent if you enter.

Regards

Peter Gillespie


Curious - now someone told me this week (because I have one) that if you have a security camera you are supposed to also have a sign clearly advising people that they are being filmed.

Anyone know if this is true?  The camera is more there for me to see if there is anyone at the front gate/door ..... it's not there for rebroadcast or anything ..... although I have threatened to upload the Aus Post guy carding and running to utube if he keeps doing it without ringing the doorbell.... and I guess if the camera picked up some idiot hoon doing burnouts I;d give the footage to the cops.

Perhaps I should have my own reality TV show:

Chops' Front Gate!  CFG! for short, like RBT!

#14 pgdownload

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 10:13 PM

Likely untrue. Its a quirk of the legal system that you can take video so long as there's no sound. Record someone speaking without consent and you're in a world of (legal) hurt.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

#15 Chopsus

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 11:35 PM

Oops = the cameras have mics on them .... but I am pretty sure they are not hooked up .. I don;t have a speaker connected to the monitor.

#16 Slattery

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 12:17 AM

In Vic it is a free for all. You can film anyone in public without their knowledge.

#17 Chopsus

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 08:12 AM

View PostSlattery, on May 21 2011, 12:17 AM, said:

In Vic it is a free for all. You can film anyone in public without their knowledge.

Good stuff, I;ll stop worrying now, thanks  B) :lol:

#18 pgdownload

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 03:48 PM

View PostSlattery, on May 21 2011, 12:17 AM, said:

In Vic it is a free for all. You can film anyone in public without their knowledge.
Although don't try film any landmarks in case your picked up as a suspected terrorist :)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

#19 swordfish805

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 11:28 PM

View Postpgdownload, on May 21 2011, 03:48 PM, said:

Although don't try film any landmarks in case your picked up as a suspected terrorist :)

Regards

Peter Gillespie


Yeah, and don't take pics of your kids' soccer game unless you want to be arrested for pedophilia.