18 replies to this topic

[GTO]

I can receive all of the melbourne Digital channels, but I cannot receive the "new" digital" Ch 31....I've tried ch44.
Anyone else had this problem....any ideas?
Cheers, GTO.

[mtv]

GTO, on Sep 23 2010, 06:18 PM, said:

I can receive all of the melbourne Digital channels, but I cannot receive the "new" digital" Ch 31....I've tried ch44.
Anyone else had this problem....any ideas?
Cheers, GTO.

It's on RF channel 32. Frequency 557.625 MHz

[bellotv]

mtv, on Sep 23 2010, 07:53 PM, said:

It's on RF channel 32. Frequency 557.625 MHz

Hey Col
Is that frequency right ? Looks like an analog spacing

[mtv]

bellotv, on Sep 23 2010, 09:54 PM, said:

Hey Col
Is that frequency right ? Looks like an analog spacing

Yep.... it has +125khz offset

[DarrenW]

GTO, on Sep 23 2010, 06:18 PM, said:

I can receive all of the melbourne Digital channels, but I cannot receive the "new" digital" Ch 31....I've tried ch44.
Anyone else had this problem....any ideas?
Cheers, GTO.

Have you tried doing a 'rescan' on your tuner?

[alanh]

GTO,
If you had posted in the Melbourne Viewers' forum you would have seen the "Get the Best Reception" post. It would have told you that community TV (MGV22) is only broadcast from Mt Dandenong and the Como Centre South Yarra. All other translator sites in the Dandenongs and on the southern sides of Port Phillip Bay do not have translators. Since you location is unknown, you could have been in one of these areas.
Note also that on Mt Dandenong SBS29 is 200 kW where as MGV32 is 15 kW. So if you are using this site then you will need a more sensitive antenna See the H34 link in the above link.

AlanH

[mtv]

GTO,

It looks like you've upset Mr. Theory

If you have an antenna pointed at Mt Dandenong and you pick up SBS ok, you should receive the community digital signal fine on 557.625 MHz.

You should not 'need a more sensitive antenna' only if the signal is very low.

As mentioned, if SBS from Mt Dandenong is ok, then so too should the community channel... regardless of the quoted transmitter power output, because in reality, the community channel generally has excellent signal coverage around Melbourne.

But then, I wouldn't expect Alan H to know that, being in Perth, WA.

[GTO]

mtv, on Sep 24 2010, 12:29 PM, said:

GTO,

It looks like you've upset Mr. Theory

If you have an antenna pointed at Mt Dandenong and you pick up SBS ok, you should receive the community digital signal fine on 557.625 MHz.

You should not 'need a more sensitive antenna' only if the signal is very low.

As mentioned, if SBS from Mt Dandenong is ok, then so too should the community channel... regardless of the quoted transmitter power output, because in reality, the community channel generally has excellent signal coverage around Melbourne.

But then, I wouldn't expect Alan H to know that, being in Perth, WA.

Thanks. I haven't worked it out as yet. We used to be able to pick up the old analogue Ch 31 on our old cathode ray TV ok...albeit a bit snowy.
We could never of course p/u ch 31 on our flatscreen, as it was digital. My next door neighbour still has his old AWA TV & with a very ordinary set top box he can get the new CH 31 (44) with no probs!?
Maybe it's a problem related to my Yamaha Z9 & Toshiba 47" LCD, both of which are a few years old.
Cheers, GTO.

Edited by GTO, 25 September 2010 - 06:56 PM.

[mtv]

GTO, on Sep 25 2010, 06:55 PM, said:

Thanks. I haven't worked it out as yet. We used to be able to pick up the old analogue Ch 31 on our old cathode ray TV ok...albeit a bit snowy.
We could never of course p/u ch 31 on our flatscreen, as it was digital. My next door neighbour still has his old AWA TV & with a very ordinary set top box he can get the new CH 31 (44) with no probs!?
Maybe it's a problem related to my Yamaha Z9 & Toshiba 47" LCD, both of which are a few years old.
Cheers, GTO.

Depends on signals at your antenna, if you are splitting them, etc etc.

Which suburb are you in, which antenna are you using and how well do you receive SBS digital?

[alanh]

MTV,
The reality is that he is not complaining about SBS reception. The MGV transmissions are 15 dB weaker than SBS and he cnanot receive them.  If there were enough signal he would not have complained. So he must be for what ever reason be under the digital threshold for MGV only. So he will need more signal. Your generalisations are not valid when you don't even know what part of Melbourne he is in, because you are yet to get an answer to this.

It is obvious that the coverage area is reduced otherwise SBS would save money by reducing its power by 11 dB which it has not.

Just like you created earthquakes in Berowra heights to change the land forms. I have spent enough time im Melbourne to know the lay of the land.

When will you start paying for advertising on this site like some of the other antenna installers?

AlanH

[dig2all]

gto's problem is a surprise as ch31 digital in melbourne transmits with a much more robust (from memory qpsk) signal than any of the other broadcasters, so it holds lock way below what any of the others can - regardless of its weaker signal level.  have you reset your receiver to factory defaults and re-scanned?  you could try scanning again on a friends antenna on another building you know does receive channel 31 d.

when all else fails you might need to call a tech., just make sure he is well experienced with digital and uses a ber meter.

[alanh]

digi2cal,
Since this transmitter is only carrying a single SD program they can use a lower data rate and improve the signal to noise ratio of demodulation during reception, provided that the receiver can detect the signal in the first place. This will be affected by the distance from the transmitter and whether the signal path is blocked by terrain, buildings or even wet vegetation.

Since GTO says his reception is snowy when the power of the analog transmitter is -5 dB compared to SBS analog, the drop of another 6dB has made the remaining digital signal below the threshold of reception.

Remember also if the receiver is plugged into a Master Antenna TV system as used in large blocks of units a channel amplifier is probably not tuned to channel 32.

The channel the receiver should tune to is channel 32 in the installation menu. The signal carries the logical channel number 44 in the transmissions. The program content is of course the same as the analog transmitter on channel 31.

AlanH

[mtv]

alanh, on Sep 26 2010, 12:32 AM, said:

MTV,
The reality is that he is not complaining about SBS reception. The MGV transmissions are 15 dB weaker than SBS and he cnanot receive them. If there were enough signal he would not have complained. So he must be for what ever reason be under the digital threshold for MGV only. So he will need more signal. Your generalisations are not valid when you don't even know what part of Melbourne he is in, because you are yet to get an answer to this.

It is obvious that the coverage area is reduced otherwise SBS would save money by reducing its power by 11 dB which it has not.

Just like you created earthquakes in Berowra heights to change the land forms. I have spent enough time im Melbourne to know the lay of the land.

When will you start paying for advertising on this site like some of the other antenna installers?

AlanH

Well Alan, the need to know more detail is why I ask for it.... to obtain factual information, rather than just speculate on theory alone.

I live/work in the areas I install antennas in, as do the other professional installers in these forums.

As for you, you are not an antenna installer and from my understanding, have never been an antenna installer.

I have asked you numerous times to correct me if I'm incorrect on that issue, to which you have not responded, so people can draw their own conclusions to that.

You make blanket statements of what people must do to solve their reception problems, by using X model antenna, X model amplifier etc, without knowing factual information such as accurate signal measurements.

The reality is Alan, that you base your recommendations purely on 'your' theory, lacking the practical experience and local knowledge of those installers who are doing the job every day.

Then it's a case of sour-grapes when you are proven wrong in 'reality' and post non-sensical remarks like those about me creating 'eathquakes in Berowra heights to change the land forms'.

That thread has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, so it's just another example of how your continued trolling of these forums attempts to divert issues away from your own incompetence and poor advice. However, since you've referred to it, here's the link so others can read it if they wish....

http://www.dtvforum....p;#entry1615930

I actually agreed with you on some points there, but overall, your advice was based on growing up a few suburbs from the location. You haven't replied to my question asking how long ago that was Alan... 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago? Undoubtedly long before digital TV was introduced, and probably long before it was even considered.

I'll ask again, how long ago was it you grew up in that area?

So who should people believe more when it comes to advice about digital TV reception... someone who lives on the opposite side of the country, who is not and has never been a professional antenna installer, makes recommendations based on having only lived nearby those areas as a child, bases recommendations purely on theory.... OR.... professional installers who are in the field every day, measuring signals at loactions where they install antennas every day, live and work in those areas and constantly monitoring any changes to signals in those areas.. in real-time.

I know which I would prefer.

What is your fixation with me about paying for advertising? Any advertising I may choose to do is none of your business.

Once again, just another diversion and forum trolling with nothing more than the intent to clog these forums and incite arguments and general disruptions.

Looks like you've had a win on that last score then, doesn't it..... Happy now?

[dig2all]

sometimes alanh doesn't deserve a response.

his 'more right than everyone else' attitude does much to confuse and alienate the 80% of non technical readers.

[beeblebrox]

I just spent a long weekend down at barwon heads (over  roughly 100km from the MT Dandenong transmitter )in the caravan park and with my trusty Log periodic 345 antenna  parked on the caravan mast under  a gum tree (no choice of site my wife booked it)  I was getting perfect c31 digital  actually much better than sbs in this location situation.   I didn't have my meter with me but I've seen c31  digital down at 28-29  dBuV still above QEF.

There  certainly are spots where there are still issues with c31 but in most cases it is a very resilient signal and the problems I'm seeing are typically with the receiving equipment ie antenna/cabling/receiver.  

GTO it helps if we know wher eyou are and what the reception situation is ie single dwelling block of flats high rise etc etc

There  are lots of MATV systems in flats that won't send through c31 (often analogue or digital)

[GTO]

beeblebrox, on Sep 28 2010, 10:34 PM, said:

I just spent a long weekend down at barwon heads (over  roughly 100km from the MT Dandenong transmitter )in the caravan park and with my trusty Log periodic 345 antenna  parked on the caravan mast under  a gum tree (no choice of site my wife booked it)  I was getting perfect c31 digital  actually much better than sbs in this location situation.   I didn't have my meter with me but I've seen c31  digital down at 28-29  dBuV still above QEF.

There  certainly are spots where there are still issues with c31 but in most cases it is a very resilient signal and the problems I'm seeing are typically with the receiving equipment ie antenna/cabling/receiver.  

GTO it helps if we know wher eyou are and what the reception situation is ie single dwelling block of flats high rise etc etc

There  are lots of MATV systems in flats that won't send through c31 (often analogue or digital)

Thanks all for your interest. I don't understand a lot of it, because I'm not into electronics etc.
Anyway, I live in an ordinary 3 BR home in Aspendale (beachside Melb). My antenna was installed about 28 yrs ago by a very reputable  installer, Moorabbin TV Services. The antenna has outlets in three separate locations in our house.
Ch 31 in analogue was never as clear as the mainstream channels. My next door neighbour has an old AWA CRTV, he knows less about this stuff than me, but his daughter just bought him a cheap set top box, and he gets Ch 31 digital better than he did on analogue.
I'm thinking that I've got an antenna problem.
Any further ideas please? Cheers, GTO.

[mtv]

GTO, on Sep 29 2010, 10:34 AM, said:

Thanks all for your interest. I don't understand a lot of it, because I'm not into electronics etc.
Anyway, I live in an ordinary 3 BR home in Aspendale (beachside Melb). My antenna was installed about 28 yrs ago by a very reputable installer, Moorabbin TV Services. The antenna has outlets in three separate locations in our house.
Ch 31 in analogue was never as clear as the mainstream channels. My next door neighbour has an old AWA CRTV, he knows less about this stuff than me, but his daughter just bought him a cheap set top box, and he gets Ch 31 digital better than he did on analogue.
I'm thinking that I've got an antenna problem.
Any further ideas please? Cheers, GTO.

I'd agree!

A 28 year old antenna may not even have a UHF section.

It has likely corroded/rusted connections, especially from salt in the air. It may also be damaged after such a long period in the weather.

If the coax is also that age, it too may need replacing as it may have deteriorated and may not be suitable for digital signals (not thought about back then).

Yes, the community channel is far better quality in digital, compared to analogue.

I'd recommend having a professional antenna installer inspect your antenna/cabling (I'd expect replacement will be required).

With a suitable antenna & cabling, installed correctly, you should have reliable reception of all digital channels at your location.

[Alex45]

Please, can I get a clear answer, without the bickering !!!!

I live in the hilly part of Balwyn.

When you change channels on my Toshiba 32" Full HD TV, you momentarily see signal bars, like on a mobile phone.
All the other stations except Digital channel 44 show 5 out of 5 bars maximum signal.

Whilst I get a perfect picture on Channel 44 (C31),  it only shows 2 signal bars out of 5.
yes, I have retuned several times.   The picture is fine on 44,    but do I assume at Digital Channel 44 transmits on a lower power than the other digital stations,  as I am only getting 2 bars of signal (despite a perfect picture)???

Thank you

[alanh]

Alex45,
The answers are specifically for Melbourne so post in Melbourne Viewers' Forum
You are correct MGV is at a lower power power than SBS which is the only other UHF transmitter on Mt Dandenong
Get the best reception - Melbourne will give you more ideas.

AlanH