1030 replies to this topic

[pgdownload]

twitch, on Jul 23 2008, 10:09 AM, said:

I bleieve upgrading the HDDs of any of the units will void the warranty, not just for the Tivo.

Technically yep, although I've never heard of a warranty refusal on these grounds to date. The Tivo is also a little unusual as theoretically they could also disable your Tivo remotely if they detect another drive and so decide.

Quote

I assume that they all support the digital TV radio stations

Good question, the Tivo would be the only one I might guess doesn't handle digital radio?

Other good features listed Jaffa (and thanks BTW) my main difficulty is that I can't readily find out about subtitles, teletext, MP3 and 4:3 support. If a few people could post these for a given box I'd put them in. Also whilst very important to a few (who will actively ask about them), for the majority these features won't decide the box they get.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[pgdownload]

deangelj, on Jul 23 2008, 10:23 AM, said:

Pete - great post! I was wondering whether it would be useful to add the Foxtel HD PVR? cheers, John

My general thinking is that if you have Foxtel get the IQ+. The question might then be should I also get a HD PVR for FTA TV? I might flesh out an entry that is just an overview explaining this, as comparisons between these units and the IQ+ IMO don't really serve much purpose.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[rzkman]

Hi,
   Thanks for the comparison sheet. The pricing for the Topfield 7000HDPVRt seems to be all over the place.
Ranging from $550 to $800. In the spreadsheet it says the price is $550, where can I find this pricing? They best
price I have at the moment is $599 from Retravision.

Thanks,
Ray

maestromo, on Jul 22 2008, 05:07 PM, said:

I've tried to put all of the comparison information into a spreadsheet to make sense of it all.

It can be downloaded here:

HD PVR Comparison Spreadsheet

There's information that wasn't clear to me from the posts, such as what editing functions are available for each model, or what the standby mode entails.

[jakes]

pgdownload, on Jul 22 2008, 03:07 PM, said:

Jakes, as mentioned by deisel, I've put in the current info and will update as appropriate. I'm somewhat sceptical of long promised 'fix everything' firmware updates so I'll mention it in passing but for the time being the homecast IMO is evaluated on its current merits. Please feel free to add any corrections oversights.

Peter Gillespie

Thanks for doing that, Peter, I've been busy since I said I was going to post a list. Yes, I'd agree with you re 'fix everything' firmwares as well, but in actual fact the Homecast seems to be relatively bug-free and stable for many people. Really, I don't expect any upcoming firmware update to be so miraculous as to make the Homecast better than TiVo The main point with the new firmware is that it promises to fix at least two of the major cons - it will enable the ethernet port (although to what extent is yet to be made public).
The second thing that a lot of people have complained about (a 'con' that you probably should add to the list) that will hopefully be fixed in some way is that at the moment it's not possible to schedule a recording/ add a recording reservation while a recording is in progress (although it is possible to manually start a recording while a recording is in progress). This could, in fact, be seen to be a fairly significant limitation in functionality (ie a definite con)
I'll have a think about others, although you might want to indicate that the noisy fan has only been reported by some people - I have no issues at all with noise.

[Blaircam]

I'm currently running a Toppy 5000 Pvrt and really love it. I've gotten so used to it I don't know what I'd do without it.
I am now upgrading to full HD so thought I'd also go the HD PVR - here's the question...
Should I just go the Toppy? I had heard that the Toppy isn't necessarily the best HD PVR out there. I've had a look at the comparison chart and it seems to me that the Toppy might just be the easiest way to go. I'm familiar with it and like it.
Do I just go with what I know or should I look at some of the others???
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic - this looked like the most appropriate forum I could see.

[Dave_L]

Dave_L, on Jul 22 2008, 08:37 AM, said:

PG,
A great idea.

Could I make a couple of suggestions regarding the Pro's & Cons of the Toppy 7000 & 7100 (see bold additions below) ?

Pros:
• Slick and usable interface and OSD.
• Internet connection optional for day to day use (Toppy 7100 only).
• Does what it does (records and plays TV) extremely well.
• Uses FTA broadcast EPG
• Third party EPG can optionally be uploaded via memory stick (or internet connection on the 7100)
• Plug in an external drive for immediate expansion/transfer (up to 1Tb in size)
• Resume Play, Book Marking, Pause Live TV
• Internal Hardrive can easily be upgraded (up to 1Tb in size)
• Full ad skip abilities and excellent FF and REW
• Ability to save TimeShift buffer as a recording
• Sleep Mode can put unit into Standby once recording has finished
• Fully integrates ICE and ICE Interactive if subscribed (Auto and Remote Timer setting).
• Can download shows direct to a PC for use in editing software (7100 via network, 7000 via ext HDD)
• Can convert other media formats (eg AVI) to play on the Toppy I don't believe this option is available on either model
• Excellent forum support

Cons:
• No ability to play other media formats (eg AVI) on both models
• File transfer to PC only via external drive or memory stick on the 7000

Peter,
Just wondering if you were planning to add my suggestions to the list at the beginning of this thread ?

[maestromo]

I've updated the spreadsheet, but adding features that one unit has raises a number of questions on whether other units do or don't have that feature.

HD PVR Comparison Spreadsheet

Basically added:

Subtitles
Teletext
PIP
Audio format
Photo support
4:3 support for older tvs
Outputs
Simultaneous Outputs

And some info for the Strong that I got off their website. If people post corrections, I'll update it again.

[JaffaMan]

Dave_L, on Jul 22 2008, 08:37 AM, said:

• Can convert other media formats (eg AVI) to play on the Toppy I don't believe this option is available on either model

Agree with Dave. You can do this easily enough with VideoReDo for the 5000, but not currently for the 7x00.

[ozdoc]

JaffaMan, on Jul 23 2008, 12:26 PM, said:

Agree with Dave. You can do this easily enough with VideoReDo for the 5000, but not currently for the 7x00.

JaffaMan,
How do you get VideoReDo to accept an AVI file?  Mine says file unsupported.  
Generally I would have to use a different program to covert AVI to MPEG, then convert this to a REC file in VRD.
Mind you, there's not much point really.  Just play the avi on the beyonwiz..  

Edited by ozdoc, 23 July 2008 - 03:54 PM.

[JaffaMan]

ozdoc, on Jul 23 2008, 02:47 PM, said:

JaffaMan,
How do you get VideoReDo to accept an AVI file?  Mine says file unsupported.  
Generally I would have to use a different program to covert AVI to MPEG, then convert this to a REC file in VRD.
Mined you, there's not much point really.  Just play the avi on the beyonwiz..  

More thinking about VideoReDo supporting the 5000's .rec format as an output - you are right, it needs to be in some form of mpeg first. I've only done it a handful of times and forgot to mention the conversion step up front. I agree it is a little pointless going back these days. For $50 you can buy DVD players with usb input that will play almost anything from disk or stick - this is the simplest for most people. And saves the hard drive for your recordings!

[twitch]

A major ommission from the spreadsheet is whether the PVR is also a media player, either via network or via usb.

[pgdownload]

Dave_L, on Jul 23 2008, 01:42 PM, said:

Peter, Just wondering if you were planning to add my suggestions to the list at the beginning of this thread ?  

I think you'll find most of them we're added just after you posted. I left one or two off as while they're definitely features I 1) don't know what the other PVRs can do in this regard and 2) They're not necessarily high in people decision making process. I don't want the post to get too bogged down in all the small capabilities of each machine but would rather there's enough broad brush strokes for people to narrow down their list and then perhaps find out about other things if they wish.

The purpose of this post is not to identify a 'winner' per say.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[pgdownload]

JaffaMan, on Jul 23 2008, 02:26 PM, said:

Agree with Dave. You can do this easily enough with VideoReDo for the 5000, but not currently for the 7x00.

Thought Dave originally misinterpreted my clumsy wording. Didn't realise that you can't retro convert files to the 7000 'format'.

Removed as a pro

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[hic_b]

maestromo, on Jul 23 2008, 02:12 PM, said:

I've updated the spreadsheet, but adding features that one unit has raises a number of questions on whether other units do or don't have that feature.

HD PVR Comparison Spreadsheet

Basically added:

Subtitles
Teletext
PIP
Audio format
Photo support
4:3 support for older tvs
Outputs
Simultaneous Outputs

And some info for the Strong that I got off their website. If people post corrections, I'll update it again.

The extra info is great. It will be a valuable tool if you can get the info to update it.

Some updates for you. The Homecast will only support PIP over HDMI. Annoying for those of us not yet switched over to LCD/Plasma...

From looking through the forums, TiVo doesn't have teletext but does have closed captions/subtitles. Not easy to turn on or off I believe though.

[ozdoc]

hic_b, on Jul 23 2008, 01:54 PM, said:

From looking through the forums, TiVo doesn't have teletext but does have closed captions/subtitles. Not easy to turn on or off I believe though.

Well, you select info, then select CCs.  So two presses in total.   Not as easy as some would like I guess..

[hic_b]

ozdoc, on Jul 23 2008, 03:59 PM, said:

Well, you select info, then select CCs.  So two presses in total.   Not as easy as some would like I guess..

Two presses is okay (that's what it is now using teletext). It was originally hidden deep in a menu but an update put it on an info screen? Do you know whether it is the standard black box subtitling or the telext style without the black box (only the actual text)?

[oscwilde]

hic_b, on Jul 23 2008, 03:54 PM, said:

The extra info is great. It will be a valuable tool if you can get the info to update it.

Some updates for you. The Homecast will only support PIP over HDMI. Annoying for those of us not yet switched over to LCD/Plasma...

The HC also does PIP via component.

One key point to note about the HT8000 is that it correctly deinterlaces SD signals before upscaling to the chosen HD format (576p, 720p, 1080i). In other words, it has a very good picture when watching SD channels.

[Dave_L]

pgdownload, on Jul 23 2008, 03:39 PM, said:

I think you'll find most of them we're added just after you posted. I left one or two off as while they're definitely features I 1) don't know what the other PVRs can do in this regard and 2) They're not necessarily high in people decision making process. I don't want the post to get too bogged down in all the small capabilities of each machine but would rather there's enough broad brush strokes for people to narrow down their list and then perhaps find out about other things if they wish.

The purpose of this post is not to identify a 'winner' per say.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Fair enough, though the way I still read it, the pro's don't really differentiate the differences between the two units (hence my additions in bold) as well as the upgradability of the internal and external HDD's (which the FW is currently limited to 1Tb).

I'm not trying to nitpick, I just think that the info should be as accurate as possible for others who may not understand the background behind most of these PVR's.

Perhaps their should be pro's & cons for the 7000 and then additional pro's for the 7100 (which is essentially the same unit, but with wireless connectivity)

If you do not agree, please leave it as it stands

[twitch]

"• Play a range of formats: mkv, wmv, avi, mpg, vob, mp4, asf, tp, trp"

as a pro doesn't do justice to the BW PVRs ability to be a network media player. That's a major differentiating factor the BWs have.

[JaffaMan]

maestromo,

checked the spreadsheet for what I know (7000's).

Both 7000 and 7100 support teletext and subtitles. Neither supports photos. Yes for both for simultaneous output. All ports are active at all times providing they support the format. Eg I have my 7000 currently wired out HDMI, component and s-video simultaneously, and all will work at 576i and 576p, but the s-video does not put out a signal at higher resolutions. So, yes for both to that column.

I would also say no to merge for both 7000 and 7100 and to be accurate trim and cut for both machines would properly be described as partial.

Looking pretty good as a feature comparison.

[ozdoc]

hic_b, on Jul 23 2008, 02:05 PM, said:

Two presses is okay (that's what it is now using teletext). It was originally hidden deep in a menu but an update put it on an info screen? Do you know whether it is the standard black box subtitling or the telext style without the black box (only the actual text)?

It's always been on the info screen (by this I mean the channel banner - being the 'full banner' containing icons for "Record, Tuner swap, Audio, Dolby Digital, Parental control, and Closed Captions").
I think it is black box subtitling, but will check when I get home - I might be getting confused with the BW, as I don't use captions often.  I'm sure someone else will find out by then.

[injidup]

Very helpful spreadsheet (and thanks to Peter and maestromo for their work!), but it doesn't mention the number of tuners, or whether it's possible to record two channels at one time.

Also, the Beyonwiz P2 has the wonderful feature of:

Quote

Color Theme on your paste

Edited by injidup, 24 July 2008 - 02:08 PM.

[pgdownload]

injidup, on Jul 24 2008, 02:03 PM, said:

Very helpful spreadsheet (and thanks to Peter and maestromo for their work!), but it doesn't mention the number of tuners, or whether it's possible to record two channels at one time.

In the prelim, it says all are 2.0 tuner PVRs

Regards

Peter Gillespie

[hex]

Good spreadsheet peter and maestromo. As a happy digitalview DVR-810 user i can confirm the following for your spreadshhet

Subtitles Yes
Teletext Yes
Audio Format Support No
Photo support No
Hard drive spin down Yes
Standby mode Yes
4:3 Support (older TVs) Yes
Simultaneous Output Yes

I also think you should consider including an entry for "Cooling" either none or fan as this helps in keeping the equipment from getting too hot.

[maestromo]

Updated version of the spreadsheet here:
HD PVR Comparison Spreadsheet

I've added 2 rows as requested:
Network media player
Cooling fan (though Hex didn't say whether the DVR 810 has one or not)

I would have thought the issue with a fan is whether the unit will be generating extra noise, rather than a unit overheating though.