RA-Bowtie

Playing MKV's and DTS

19 posts in this topic

G'day all,

I'm kinda new to all of this, so please forgive my ignorance.

Here's what I'm trying to do ....

I'm going to be building a house in the next 12 months and I'm going to have a "proper" home theatre.

Projector with 120" screen, blah, blah. I'd like to watch the movies in 1080P

I have a large Blu-Ray collection, that I'd like to rip and store on a NAS. I'll have a computer setup (in the next room) to run the NAS and I'll just use that for doing the ripping ..... 
                                                         
Here's the bits that I kinda figured out.

I'll use Make MKV to rip the movies.
I'll use Plex home theatre on that computer.

I don't want to lose any of the sound quality (DTS, Atmos, etc) and this is where I get confused.

I was going to buy a WD-TV, but (from what I've read) it won't handle DTS.

I've read that the Samsung UBD-K8500 Blu-Ray player can do it all ..... is this the best option?

Not sure if you can run the Plex client on this player.

Does Plex need to transcode to this player?

I've probably got some of this stuff wrong, but It's fun learning about it all. Any help would really be appreciated.


Michael

Edited by RA-Bowtie
Made a mistake

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Hi RA,

Sounds like a fun project. There's a big thread here about New to NAS so you can check that out. The two big players in NAS are QNAP or Synology. They're pricey but work well.One main benefit i you need a PC to do your ripping and transferring to the NAS but after that you can turn off the PC and just leave the NAS running 24/7 and using almost no power. Some comments:

1) I know QNAP so I'll stick to commenting on them, but Synology NAS is pretty similar in functionality.

2) A 100% quality bluray rip (video and sound) is about 30Gb each. But I assume you're going with the 95% quality video rip which should be about 6Gb each (sound is 100%) - Use this to get a vague idea of the amount of NAS storage you'll need. 

3) Plex is foremost just a (very pretty) user interface for viewing you video collection. In the setup you intend there is no transcoding, Your files are all local and you can browse and play them. If you want to watch movies over lower speed connections (say via wireless to your phone) then Plex has the additional ability to transcode on the fly to reduce the amount of data needed (but the PQ might go from 1080p to 576i for example). 

4) Plex involves a server and players. You could run the plex server on the PC but possibly better to run it on your NAS. Then whatever box you use as a player just connects to the NAS Plex server.

5) When considering a NAS you can get Intel Processor ones (more powerful) or ARM Processor (Less Powerful). If you intend to transcode on the fly (and it seems not) then you need the power, otherwise the ARM processor is more than enough to play movies.

6) On WD DTS it seems several models handle DTS in 2 channels, not sure if this is good enough?

7) On the Samsung UBD-K8500, That's a pretty expensive solution, It seems it runs Plex though. I would only recommend it if you wanted to get this player for reasons other than playing files off your NAS. 

8) You have two choices in having a box to play your movies. One is an extra box to play files from your NAS (eg WD or Samsung Player) etc. The other is using your NAS directly. So your NAS sits near your TV and runs an HDMI cable from the NAS to the TV. A good example would be the QNAP 451 - Stores files, has Plex, basically silent, audio pass through etc.

Anyway, enough points to get you thinking. :)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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9 hours ago, pgdownload said:

G'day Peter,

Thanks for the reply.

I did read some (not all) of the stuff about a NAS .... I was looking at the Synology and it seems like you steer clear of the WD "green drives".

Still trying to work out the best arrangement for the NAS drives. Do I go for (as an example) 4 bays x 6 Tb drives 
or is it better to go for a 6 bay and smaller drives to achieve the same capacity?

Do you have suggestions for a particular Synology model that I should look at?

If figure that if I'm gonna spend that amount of money on sound gear, then I want to the best audio quality that I can get. So, yes.... 100% rip.

I heard the Atmos feature the other day .... bloody hell, that sounds good!

I'm only using this for watching movies, that's why I figured that the Blu-Ray player was the best choice. I can use
it (obviously) to watch a Blu-Ray or I can stream from the NAS, without transcoding.

The movies will ONLY be played on the projector/ amp.

Why do you think that Plex would be better on the NAS, rather than the computer it's connected to?

I don't a preference or an opinion .... I'd just like to do it the best (most efficient) way possible.

The Samsung UBD-K8500 seemed like the easiest way to achieve what I'm trying to do. I'm really not interested
in any other content, like Netflicks, etc. I have another TV/ sound system for that.

I was planing to put the NAS and other computers in my study which will be the room next to the theatre room
and run network cabling though the walls ..... kinda easy to plan that stuff out right now.

Michael


 

 

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12 hours ago, RA-Bowtie said:

I have a large Blu-Ray collection, that I'd like to rip and store on a NAS. I'll have a computer setup (in the next room) to run the NAS and I'll just use that for doing the ripping ..... 
                                                         
Here's the bits that I kinda figured out.

I'll use Make MKV to rip the movies.
I'll use Plex home theatre on that computer.

I don't want to lose any of the sound quality (DTS, Atmos, etc) and this is where I get confused.

I was going to buy a WD-TV, but (from what I've read) it won't handle DTS.

I've read that the Samsung UBD-K8500 Blu-Ray player can do it all ..... is this the best option?

Not sure if you can run the Plex client on this player.

Does Plex need to transcode to this player?

I've probably got some of this stuff wrong, but It's fun learning about it all. Any help would really be appreciated.


Michael

A computer setup in the other room the run the nas???  The nas is a separate box that runs itself and its own OS. You basically leave it on 24/7 and any other device/computer in your house connects to it if they are on the same network. You want to get a new graphics card in your current computer that has HDMI. Then you want to run a HDMI cable from your computer to your AVR. You wont have to use plex you can install another frontend ( kodi/mediaportal ) for coverart and playback. 

If you can't use the other computer in the other room for what ever reason. Buy yourself an Intel Nuc and use that for playback id recommend a i5 cpu as a bare minimum. Or buy a HTPC with a proper graphics card it all depends on your budget and how serious you are about your sound and video quality.

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Audio visual receiver (aka TV) :)

I did read some (not all) of the stuff about a NAS .... I was looking at the Synology and it seems like you steer clear of the WD "green drives".

Each NAS manufacture has a list of compatible drives on their website. Just ensure what you buy is one of those.

Still trying to work out the best arrangement for the NAS drives. Do I go for (as an example) 4 bays x 6 Tb drives 
or is it better to go for a 6 bay and smaller drives to achieve the same capacity?

More bays cost more. But they also allow for expansion. You could grab a 6 bay now but just put in 4 drives. You can add 2 more later if you want. Only you know how much hard drive space you need but probably a 4 drive NAS would be plenty?

Do you have suggestions for a particular Synology model that I should look at?

Nope. Ask in the NAS thread and you'll get some good options.

If figure that if I'm gonna spend that amount of money on sound gear, then I want to the best audio quality that I can get. So, yes.... 100% rip.

100% rip is only for the PQ. A 95% rip gives you 95% Bluray PQ and 100% Audio quality (Audio is not downgraded in the rip).

I'm only using this for watching movies, that's why I figured that the Blu-Ray player was the best choice. I can use
it (obviously) to watch a Blu-Ray or I can stream from the NAS, without transcoding.

I assume you already have a bluray player.

Why do you think that Plex would be better on the NAS, rather than the computer it's connected to?

Once you ripped and stored your movies on the NAS then you don't need the PC anymore. The NAS can play the movies itself. It uses little power (about the same as a light globe).  

I was planing to put the NAS and other computers in my study which will be the room next to the theatre room
and run network cabling though the walls ..... kinda easy to plan that stuff out right now.

Run a CAT6 cable to the rooms you want to. Allows you to network NAS, PC, etc. from any room to any room. Running HDMI cables through walls is not a good solution. PC in one room Nas in another. Or you could have NAS in one room and a WD or Bluray player in the TV room. They're tiny boxes that can feed your AVR. :)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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With regards to the ripping.... I'll be using a 125" screen. Would the other 5% make a difference ?

I haven't bought the Blu-Ray player yet .... it just seemed like the best option that I could find.
Do you another suggestion?

I see what you getting at in regards to the NAS. So I just rip the movies onto my computer and then move them (over the network) to the NAS?

Hmm.... hadn't thought about the HDMI cables. Good point, thanks for that.

Michael

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You can always test out the rip quality yourself. Make a 95% one and a 100% one and view them yourself (preferably let someone else play each in turn at random so you can run a blind test and see if you can see any difference) 

I've already provided 2 other suggestions. Get a WD (several models do DTS) or get a QNAP and use that. Failing that there are 100's of "media players" on the market that you can choose from.

A NAS is designed to be a 24/7 box that supplies its content to any device at any time. It has its own user interface. You can log in via your PC. Transfer files. etc. Run Plex on it, or Kodi. Shut the PC down, keep the NAS running.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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1 hour ago, pgdownload said:

Audio visual receiver (aka TV) :)

Umm an AVR is the amplifier bit that feeds video from the source device to the TV and makes the speakers do things from the sound information it receives along with the picture ;) 

Edited by mattis

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18 minutes ago, mattis said:

Umm an AVR is the amplifier bit that feeds video from the source device to the TV and makes the speakers do things from the sound information it receives along with the picture ;) 

I'm intrigued by the edit.  When I do them its usually to smooth a 'you idiot' post into something more 'silly billy' :) 

Yes the AVR would be the OPs amplifier in this case. So PC => NAS (over cat5) => AVR (hdmi) => speakers (audio) and tv (visual)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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I'm only using this for watching movies, that's why I figured that the Blu-Ray player was the best choice. 

So the setup I would recommend is to have your projectory, current bluray player, NAS, amplifier (AVR) and speakers in the one room. The PC would be in another room and able to connect to the NAS via CAT6 cable but only be used to rip and transfer shows to the NAS. This is the simplest and most powerful setup IMO.

You have two main questions to answer

1) What NAS to get?

2) Are you going to use the NAS as your media player or are you going to get another box (WD, new Bluray PLayer, etc.) that just uses the NAS files and provides your interface to watching movies on the projector.

If you are consider a second box then a good solution might be the latest AppleTV.  The apple TV gives you access to a bunch of Apple stuff but also you can install Infuse which is the same as Plex (doesn't do transcoding but you wont need that). Does do DTS and Dolby etc. Looks fantastic IMO and plays everything.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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16 hours ago, pgdownload said:

I'm intrigued by the edit.  When I do them its usually to smooth a 'you idiot' post into something more 'silly billy' :) 

Yes the AVR would be the OPs amplifier in this case. So PC => NAS (over cat5) => AVR (hdmi) => speakers (audio) and tv (visual)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

LOL. The edit was because I couldn't type anything after the quote so I was unable to respond. I'm not sure WTF happened but the only way I was able to complete my response was to post the quote without any comment from myself and then later edit it again :)

EDIT: And yeh I usually edit for the same reason as you outlined :D

Edited by mattis

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1 minute ago, mattis said:

LOL. The edit was because I couldn't type anything after the quote so I was unable to respond. I'm not sure WTF happened but the only way I was able to complete my response was to post the quote without any comment from myself and then later edit it again :D

Been there and done that.

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9 hours ago, pgdownload said:

 

 

So the setup I would recommend is to have your projectory, current bluray player, NAS, amplifier (AVR) and speakers in the one room. The PC would be in another room and able to connect to the NAS via CAT6 cable but only be used to rip and transfer shows to the NAS. This is the simplest and most powerful setup IMO.

You have two main questions to answer

1) What NAS to get?

2) Are you going to use the NAS as your media player or are you going to get another box (WD, new Bluray PLayer, etc.) that just uses the NAS files and provides your interface to watching movies on the projector.

If you are consider a second box then a good solution might be the latest AppleTV.  The apple TV gives you access to a bunch of Apple stuff but also you can install Infuse which is the same as Plex (doesn't do transcoding but you wont need that). Does do DTS and Dolby etc. Looks fantastic IMO and plays everything.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

G'day Peter,

With regards to the NAS, the Synology DS1815 seems pretty good.

The way you've described the setup is pretty much how I'll do it.

The reason that I think the Blu-Ray player is the way to go is, that I'm already familiar with using the Philips Pronto.

It's a programmable remote and the IR codes for the amp and Blu-Ray player are easy to get, although I'm not sure about the projector.

Thanks for taking the time to explain things, I really appreciate it.

Michael

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Just a quick note. I have a WDTV live in my theatre and it passes all audio formats (DTS-HSMA Dolby TrueHD) via bitstream playing MKV rips

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3 hours ago, RA-Bowtie said:

G'day Peter,

With regards to the NAS, the Synology DS1815 seems pretty good.

The way you've described the setup is pretty much how I'll do it.

The reason that I think the Blu-Ray player is the way to go is, that I'm already familiar with using the Philips Pronto.

It's a programmable remote and the IR codes for the amp and Blu-Ray player are easy to get, although I'm not sure about the projector.

Thanks for taking the time to explain things, I really appreciate it.

Michael

If you want to go an 8 bay NAS (and yes mony people sort a 2 or 4 bay NAS before running out of space and wishing they'd gone more) then you can start to fill it with 6Tb drives. Start with 4 and you can add in more later if needed painlessly.

All good reasons to go with the Bluray player. If it doesn't work out then the NAS can become a simple storage box of your movies and you can always grab an AppleTV or WD later for $200 and use that instead as your main interface. 

Keep in mind with movies you usually sort to play them and then sit down and watch them. If there's one or two small hassle steps before each movie (like having to get up to change the input on the box) its really no big deal. 

Regards

Peter GIllespie

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G'day mate,

You wrote (like having to get up to change the input on the box)

What exactly do you mean by that. I figured that once you have it set up....that's pretty much all there is .... am I wrong?

Just curious (for what I'm going to be doing) is an ethernet connection enough?

Are there other choices, if needed?

 

Michael

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Just saying you don't have to get it all right now. Get the essentials in place (like the NAS and the Ethernet wiring)  and the rest can be tweaked. 

Ethernet is all you need in the walls. Put that in place and your connectivity is assured.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

 

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Bowtie,

I run a Synology DS1515+ NAS unit with 5 x Toshiba 4TB Drives. 4 drives are configured for storage in a Synology Hybrid RAID setup with 1 disk redundancy and the 5th disk is configured as a hot spare. I have total storage capacity of 11TB with the option to add the hot spare into the mix when required.

I've also upgraded the RAM on the Synology to 6GB (2GB and 4GB chips)

I would never run a Plex server on the NAS itself as the NAS hardware is very limited for transcoding sessions and multi-stream functionality. Unless you're talking commercial NAS, most consumer NAS units simply aren't designed to serve/transcode media files.

My NAS is used purely for storage. I run my Plex server on a dedicated custom HTPC which runs 24x7 along with the NAS. The Plex Server points to the NAS as the media storage location.

The HTPC stats are ASUS Z87-Deluxe Motherboard with Intel i7-4790 chip, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD. This version of the Z87 motherboard has dual NICs (ethernet ports) and the Synology has 4 ethernet ports. The HTPC sits in my Home theatre room and is what I play my media through in that room. I also have 3 x Mac Mini's attached to the other three TV's in my house for "standard" viewing.  All the HTPC SSD holds is Windows 10 operating system, Plex Server, VLC and a few other basic apps/software. It doesnt "store" anything as such. The Mac Mini's similarly are all quad core i7 units (previous generation where RAM and HDD were user change-able) which run 256GB SSD's. Through them I have full functionality of a computer on each TV but usually they get used to view Netflix and Plex mostly.

The HTPC has both the Plex Server AND a Plex client (Plex Home Theatre). The other 3 TV's also have Plex Clients (Plex Home Theatres) on their respective Mac Mini's. All Mac Mini's are connected via HDMI to their TV's and the HTPC is also connected via HDMI to the Yamaha Receiver which then outputs to the Projector/speakers. The other Plex clients in the house are 2 laptops and 2 iPads which all connect wirelessly to the network.

All the Mac Mini's, the HTPC and the NAS are hardwired (CAT 6 cabling) to a Cisco SG-200 18port managed switch which then runs to my router modem. The Managed Switch allows me to run the Synology NAS and HTPC with Link aggregation so the HTPC has both ethernet ports connected to the switch and the NAS has all 4 ports connected to the switch.

With this setup, I have had HD movie streaming to the home theatre (30-40GB file normally) as well all three other TV's (multi channel HD media downgraded via transcoding) with no stutter or lag. 

Its taken a good six months to get my system set up this way but now that it is, it works really well (FOR ME) and gives me the functionality I want.

Because its all hardwired, it really doesn't matter where individual components are located but the work is in running cables between walls and floors to get this functionality. I personally avoid using Wireless where possible.

The downside to this is that my HTPC does need to run 24/7 as the Plex Server sits on this so you're burning power unnecessarily.

Depending on your requirements, I would highly recommend running your Plex server on a dedicated computer rather than a NAS unit. Plex has a fairly comprehensive list of what NAS units are compatible with its server and what their limitations are i.e. how many streams you can run etc.

not sure if this helps or adds confusion, but just my 2c worth :-)

cheers

Jeelan

 

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