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#1 nbound

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:56 PM

After using a few of these on recent jobs, just wondering what people thought of them (features some have, that others dont), and more importantly of the price.... Are they finding it a cost effective solution? Will we ever be free of having to explain that people will need to switch ATV/DTV to get their analog modulated channels, etc? :P

#2 mtv

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 08:00 PM

Eventually, TV's will not be available with analogue tuners as there'll be no point manufacturing them with analogue TV transmission being shut off worldwide.

I won't install analogue modulators now... it's too messy balancing levels and adjacent channel interference, etc etc.... not to mention the poor PQ and the need to switch mode for the user.

Eventually people will have to upgrade their analoge modulation systems, because when they replace a TV, it will have a digital-only tuner.

Even new hotels/motels are still installing Foxtel/Austar with analogue modulation... which looks absolutely crap compared to the FTA digital terrestrial channels.

It's also false economy.. as they'll have to replace it with digital down the track.... better to have it fully-digital from day one.

Much simpler to modulate in digital where I can assign any LCN and label the 'channels' as I need.

Digital modulation cost is coming down and will continue to, but it's still expensive at this time, compared to analogue.

#3 The Baja

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 10:53 AM

After using a few of these on recent jobs, just wondering what people thought of them (features some have, that others dont), and more importantly of the price.... Are they finding it a cost effective solution? Will we ever be free of having to explain that people will need to switch ATV/DTV to get their analog modulated channels, etc? :P


I use the IKUSI MAC-401 & MAC-201 Digital modulators which i have installed on many Mining camp sites, Ships and many other Locations. They are Reliable and work Flawlessly. with regards to features, they all still have A/V & S-Video inputs. The HDMI input Digital Modulators are available, However they are still Far too Expensive. a cheaper version is NOT too far away. Another good feature of the IKUSI MAC series Digital Modulators are that they can be remotely Monitored (Off Site).

Price depends on where you Shop. A Quad input Digital Modulator works out to be around-about $500 per Channel. A Single input Digital Modulator is aprox $600. ;)



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#4 beeblebrox

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:22 PM

yeah the only place we'd still do analogue is in small residential situations... even this is changing, once someone understands the difference.. sometimes it takes a demo for them to get it... but they see it makes sense if they want to modulate it to do it in digital.

There's now so many different distribution options for residential, hdmi/component/cvbs over CAT5 etc it's less of an issue.

In the commercial world anyone doing new analogue modulation is really short changing their customers! IMHO

#5 The Baja

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 11:22 PM

In the commercial world anyone doing new analogue modulation is really short changing their customers! IMHO


This is NOT entirely correct. It all depends on the clients Budget or the Consultants Specifications. We must understand that digital Modulation cost at least 5 times more in Dollar value than analogue modulation at the moment, so the client gets what they pay for, Nobody is short changing anybody.

But when the TV’s no longer have an ANALOGUE Tuner in them, Clients will have absolutely NO choice but to use DIGITAL Modulators. ;)


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#6 beeblebrox

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 08:01 PM

okay sure there are some cheap a.ss developers / builders/body corps out there and we all try to do what the customer wants/budgets for!!! but I see plenty of new installs where no expense is being spared on things including new digital tv's in every unit/room/suite/bar location etc and someone has cheapened the whole thing with analogue modulators.... at least since foxy moved away from modulators in their boxes we don't see many using boxes the built in modulators (which are usually crap) being combined with a splitter in reverse , amped up and spewed out on a distribution network.

we're only talking a couple of grand (or less) it's not $45k like it was 5 years ago and the result is sooo much better even if it's only CVBS or Svideo input..

#7 The Baja

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 01:41 PM

we're only talking a couple of grand (or less) it's not $45k like it was 5 years ago and the result is sooo much better even if it's only CVBS or Svideo input..


Just got back Last week from a Mining Camp in the Pilbara (130KM From Newman). Extend existing Signal to 40+ new dongas with Samsung Digital TV's. They have 16 Channels Modulated In Analogue ( IKUSI Class A Headend ). The Picture quality is Very GOOD & the Best you can expect for an Analogue System. to Convert to Digital Modulation it would have cost them an EXTRA $8000. When i suggested this, they looked at me Kinda Funny.

I agree with you that Digital Modulation is the way to go. But I DO NOT agree with your comments and i quote " In the commercial world anyone doing new analogue modulation is really short changing their customers! IMHO " End quote. That's just a Ludicrous Comment.

In the Real World if the customers Budget Constraints only allows for Analogue Modulation, then that's what they get.

As i said Before Nobody is Short-changing anybody



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#8 mtv

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:04 PM

About the best you can do is advise the customer of the benefits of installing digital now (apart from the obvious PQ improvements) and the pitfalls associated with installing analogue now... it's then the customer's decision what they want/can afford now.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of customers who can afford digital modulation now, but when they have a cheaper option (analogue) they'll take the cheaper alternative... but.... it's their choice and it will be a case of... 'I told you so' later when they have no choice and have to upgrade to digital when their analogue TV's start to die off and digital-only TV's will be the only replacements available.

Have to wonder at what point some tight-arsed accommodation places will upgrade to digital modulated Foxtel/Austar. Eg: how many TV's will they need to stop working on analogue before the bite the bullet.

I have a few clients who still have many rooms with analogue-only CRT TV's.. not even STB's, so if you're unlucky to score one of those rooms.... you don't even get the extra FTA network channels.

#9 The Baja

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 04:11 PM

I have a few clients who still have many rooms with analogue-only CRT TV's.. not even STB's, so if you're unlucky to score one of those rooms.... you don't even get the extra FTA network channels.


Hi Col
I used to have that Problem in the Retirement Villages i look after, But NOT anymore. I Installed a Headend that can take-in SD & HD Digital Streams and Throw them out in analogue, So Everybody is Happy. ;)


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#10 beeblebrox

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 04:52 PM

As i said Before Nobody is Short-changing anybody

mea culpa, maybe I chose the wrong words there... of course you're right there's situations where the customer isn't going to fork out the $$$ , at the same time I've seen plenty of situations of late where the customer wasn't even given the option. but to win the business some customers aren't even given the option...

#11 mtv

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 05:27 PM

I used to have that Problem in the Retirement Villages i look after, But NOT anymore. I Installed a Headend that can take-in SD & HD Digital Streams and Throw them out in analogue, So Everybody is Happy. ;)


But only until they can't replace analogue TV tuners..... then they have to replace both the TV and the headend. :)

#12 nbound

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 05:35 PM

But only until they can't replace analogue TV tuners..... then they have to replace both the TV and the headend. :)


How much longer do u guys reckon we'll see analogue tuners in new tv's? Bulk orders for places like pubs, hotels, and hospitals alot of which still have partial or completely analogue distiribution systems would make up a small but sizable proportion of their sales. I also havent seen any digital tvs with much support for special/hyperband digital stations (though some do a couple non-standard channels).

#13 The Baja

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 05:51 PM

But only until they can't replace analogue TV tuners..... then they have to replace both the TV and the headend. :)


Sorry Col I should better explained.

The Retirement Villages Also have Digital Headend's. So for those that have Digital TV it's all Good. for those that have the old crt tv's can also watch the digital streams EVEN After the analogue service has been shut-Down, when the Old CRT tv pack-up they can get a new Digital tv and all is Good. There will be NO NEED replacing The Headend.


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#14 beeblebrox

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:48 PM

Sorry Col I should better explained.

The Retirement Villages Also have Digital Headend's. So for those that have Digital TV it's all Good. for those that have the old crt tv's can also watch the digital streams EVEN After the analogue service has been shut-Down, when the Old CRT tv pack-up they can get a new Digital tv and all is Good. There will be NO NEED replacing The Headend.


Baja

We do the same thing if we're putting in a new headend, straight digital plus transmodulators for the analogue tv's iuf it's a large village with lots of analogue TVs still..

The only issue with the transmodulators is what happens after the restack and then the bandwidth is sold off to telcos etc...

#15 mtv

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:49 PM

How much longer do u guys reckon we'll see analogue tuners in new tv's? Bulk orders for places like pubs, hotels, and hospitals alot of which still have partial or completely analogue distiribution systems would make up a small but sizable proportion of their sales. I also havent seen any digital tvs with much support for special/hyperband digital stations (though some do a couple non-standard channels).


I expect when the larger markets (Europe/USA/Asia etc) have completed analogue shutoff, there won't be much incentive for manufacturers to keep integrating analogue tuners in screens.

The Australian market is so small comparatively there would be absolutely no influence.

#16 beeblebrox

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:53 PM

The Australian market is so small comparatively there would be absolutely no influence.

What was that quote, "Pimple on the A.se end of the world" or something similar from our the prime minister that Australia had to have!!

#17 vanstonedg

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:53 AM

It has been almost a year since this thread was added to. Does anyone know who I might contact in Melbourne to discuss a problem our Body Corporate has with our security cameras?

#18 vanstonedg

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:28 PM

I represent a member of a body corporate for a block of units in the inner Melbourne area. Since 2005 we have had a number of external cameras monitoring the property and recording activity for security. The recorder feeds an analogue modulator which uses a splitter to connect to the four antennas so occupants could view the cameras on their TV's. This has worked well but now the analogue modulator has died. The cameras are still recording but we can no longer view the activity within individucal units. Given that all TV broadcast is going digital and analogue receivers/recorders are scarce we would like to replace the modulator with a digital one that can be seen by the occupants (and not our neighbours.)
Does anyone know of a contract service in the Melbourne area who can quote for this and any repair works to the antennas themselves? At least one antenna is corroded and needs to be repaired or replaced.

David

#19 nbound

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:12 PM

Most good professional installers should be able to help with both the modulation and quoting for a replacement antenna (or whatever is the cause).

I would recommend the digital modulation option, though it will be more expensive.

Edited by nbound, 09 January 2013 - 02:12 PM.


#20 MATV Doctor

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:48 PM

Hi There
I have actually just used a full commercial digital modulator headend that is modular. ALCAD DM-102, the guys at ALCAD told me if it doesnt work well you dont pay and you can return it at no charge.

I had never heard of this brand until I recieved a flyer on my email one day. Anyway results it works and works well you can programme the modules with a programmer or via laptop.

Beauty of it is though the modules are twin input and quality is really good what you put in is what you get out. I must commend the service they give very friendly.

I dont think I have seen any other modular style digital modulators in Australia.

#21 nbound

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:01 PM

Hi There
I have actually just used a full commercial digital modulator headend that is modular. ALCAD DM-102, the guys at ALCAD told me if it doesnt work well you dont pay and you can return it at no charge.

I had never heard of this brand until I recieved a flyer on my email one day. Anyway results it works and works well you can programme the modules with a programmer or via laptop.

Beauty of it is though the modules are twin input and quality is really good what you put in is what you get out. I must commend the service they give very friendly.

I dont think I have seen any other modular style digital modulators in Australia.

He only needs one modulator, they are modulating the output of the DVR, not each individual camera. Most major brands have a headend/modular style digital modulator as far as I am aware.

Edited by nbound, 09 January 2013 - 03:02 PM.


#22 debruis

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:30 PM

I represent a member of a body corporate for a block of units in the inner Melbourne area. Since 2005 we have had a number of external cameras monitoring the property and recording activity for security. The recorder feeds an analogue modulator which uses a splitter to connect to the four antennas so occupants could view the cameras on their TV's. This has worked well but now the analogue modulator has died. The cameras are still recording but we can no longer view the activity within individucal units. Given that all TV broadcast is going digital and analogue receivers/recorders are scarce we would like to replace the modulator with a digital one that can be seen by the occupants (and not our neighbours.)
Does anyone know of a contract service in the Melbourne area who can quote for this and any repair works to the antennas themselves? At least one antenna is corroded and needs to be repaired or replaced.

David


Hi David,

Is the CCTV's analogue modulator connected to the MATV system or is it connect to Antenna and broadcasting inside the unit block?. Why I am asking this is I do not understand the comment about "neighbours not being able to see it". If it is connected to the MATV system (internal cabling) then the neighbouring block will not be able to see it.

#23 vanstonedg

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:49 AM

Hi David,

Is the CCTV's analogue modulator connected to the MATV system or is it connect to Antenna and broadcasting inside the unit block?. Why I am asking this is I do not understand the comment about "neighbours not being able to see it". If it is connected to the MATV system (internal cabling) then the neighbouring block will not be able to see it.

That was a superfluous bit of text by me. The modulator is connected through the splitter to the antennas on the roof of the block and cables return from the antennas down to the units who could view the images on a local channel (CH3 if I remember correctly). What we need is a digital replacement for this part. Are you able to help with this?

#24 debruis

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:34 PM

That was a superfluous bit of text by me. The modulator is connected through the splitter to the antennas on the roof of the block and cables return from the antennas down to the units who could view the images on a local channel (CH3 if I remember correctly). What we need is a digital replacement for this part. Are you able to help with this?


Yes if you get stuck. Email me directly and I can sort something out for you. Have you tried contacting beeblebrox as he is in Melbourne

#25 vanstonedg

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:46 AM

Yes if you get stuck. Email me directly and I can sort something out for you. Have you tried contacting beeblebrox as he is in Melbourne

I'm not familiar with beeblebox. Is he a member on this forum?