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Win Digital Issues Devonport


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#1 tasbloke

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 01:56 PM

Hi everyone,
Is anybody else having reception issues with WIN digital from kelcey tier in Devonport? I moved here a month ago from Launceston where I also had the same problem of occasional digital breakup but assumed it was my location (not line of site). Things here are just the same despite the correct outdoor antenna being installed and line of site to the TX site.

Although you can't read too much into it both signal quality and level are at 10/10 on my hard drive recorder. All other channels are fine.

Interestingly at my work place we have the same problem again only with WIN. Win however have no record of any issue in the area.

Anyone else suffering similar problems - very frustrating!

#2 pburr

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 02:42 PM

I also have been having this problem for the last 6 to 12 months. I live in Devonport and receive WIN from Kelsey tier and Launceston and both have the same issues. I agree, frustrating to say the least !!

#3 tasbloke

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 04:24 PM

Yes exactly pburr! That time frame matches mine perfectly. Thanks for that at least that proves it is not my equipment at fault which is good but not a solution to the problem.

#4 mtv

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 10:38 PM

The greater the number of people repoerting reception issues, the greater the chances of having them fixed sooner, so try to get as many affected viewers as possible to make a report to WIN engineering.

#5 lizclinton

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:21 AM

The same thing is happening on WIN through the Round Hill translator too. I noticed it when I was home for Christmas. My folks are line of sight to round hill and the TV was reporting 10/10 signal and quality yet the picture broke up and sound dropped out from time to time.

#6 Guest_stump_1100_*

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 12:01 PM

We had reports of intermittent pixelation at Kelcey Tier (as well as Ulverstone) on Tuesday, no faults were found and viewers we contacted had no complaints. Before that, the last fault ticket raised was 01/12/2011 and no faults were found - services confirmed to going to air ok.

In order to assist getting this taken further, specific times and dates for observed problems would be very helpful (we don't usually get this type of info) as we can then compare with the equipment logs in the transmitters to determine what might be happening. I suspect we are experiencing some fading (sometimes fade margins aren't as good as they were designed to be due to a number of reasons) but that's only a guess at the moment.

Any information that viewers can provide to narrow it down (especially when it's an intermittent problem) is extremely useful to the maintenance teams.

#7 Alista

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:27 AM

This has been going on for ever. I receive from Mt Barrow and it's been happening randomly most days although some are worse than others. I might not down some times when it happens. Very annoying when the cricket's on!

#8 BigBadBaz

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 04:55 PM

Same, same,

I got sick of it last week and sent an email via their website.

got this response.

Thank you for your enquiry regarding WIN television reception.
The information you have supplied indicates that you may be suffering from poor reception or local interference to the reception to your antenna. This is evident on a digital service by the dropout of the sound and pixilation/freezing of the picture.
All services are transmitted at the same level (power) using a common transmitter antenna. The difference between the channels is the radio frequency. Due to the different frequencies some channels may be affected worse than others.
The problem may be a loss of signal from the connections on your antenna to your television set/set top box – you need to have the correct antenna and good quality coax and connections installed. If you have problems with your antenna installation or do not have a clear path between your antenna and the transmitter (due to buildings, trees, terrain) the signals will be affected. Electrical interference can also affect your reception.
A number of domestic antennas on the market have been found to have a high frequency roll off at the upper end of the band. As WIN transmits at the upper end of the band, this contributes to higher losses (reduced signal) at the television set.
We suggest that you contact your local serviceman for advice on how to improve your reception.
WIN currently has no transmission issues in your area.

So we are all wrong there are no issues, we've all got our own reception issues. Geez talk about head in the sand stuff!!

we need everyone to complain and soon

#9 BigBadBaz

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 05:09 PM

We had reports of intermittent pixelation at Kelcey Tier (as well as Ulverstone) on Tuesday, no faults were found and viewers we contacted had no complaints. Before that, the last fault ticket raised was 01/12/2011 and no faults were found - services confirmed to going to air ok.

In order to assist getting this taken further, specific times and dates for observed problems would be very helpful (we don't usually get this type of info) as we can then compare with the equipment logs in the transmitters to determine what might be happening. I suspect we are experiencing some fading (sometimes fade margins aren't as good as they were designed to be due to a number of reasons) but that's only a guess at the moment.

Any information that viewers can provide to narrow it down (especially when it's an intermittent problem) is extremely useful to the maintenance teams.


It happens almost every day, you only have to watch for half an hour or so to see it. I believe it is a problem from Mt Barrow being repeated at the other translators. I have gear tuned to both Mt Barrow and Heazlewoods Hill with seperate antennas and it happens on both at the same time. Does seem to be worse when the weather is warmer and at night (although I'm not home often during the day to check).

As for specific times, dates etc. the reason you don't get this info is that you don't ask for it, you just send out a form letter telling people that it's their problem. This problem has been mentioned on this site in another thread before and a proffesional installer contacted you and was also fobbed off. read from post #301 in this thread.

http://www.dtvforum....ic=12471&st=300

please get somone on to this, it's very annoying.

#10 Guest_stump_1100_*

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 10:03 PM

It happens almost every day, you only have to watch for half an hour or so to see it. I believe it is a problem from Mt Barrow being repeated at the other translators. I have gear tuned to both Mt Barrow and Heazlewoods Hill with seperate antennas and it happens on both at the same time. Does seem to be worse when the weather is warmer and at night (although I'm not home often during the day to check).

As for specific times, dates etc. the reason you don't get this info is that you don't ask for it, you just send out a form letter telling people that it's their problem. This problem has been mentioned on this site in another thread before and a proffesional installer contacted you and was also fobbed off. read from post #301 in this thread.

http://www.dtvforum....ic=12471&st=300

please get somone on to this, it's very annoying.


Lets be clear here, my team are directed by WIN to attend issues they deem are broadcast/transmission faults. My team do not interact with the public or attend issues like this unless directed to do so by WIN and if you think that's a cop out on my behalf then I'm sorry but that's the ways it works. Now what I can do is take specific information to WIN Engineering and show them there is a potential problem that needs to be addressed. What they chose to do after that is up to them. For my part, I will ensure that my team has a good look at Mt Barrow on our next scheduled routine maintenance visit. The best way to help this issue is to gather information, specific times and symptoms that can be fed back to WIN to force the issue.

Just picking up on a few details in your post, are you saying that you are seeing pixelation directly from Mt Barrow? Saying it is worse during the night or warmer weather could indicate a RF path loss issue but only off a translator because Mt Barrow is link fed. Do you see the same problems from Mt Barrow and Heazlewoods Hill (I don't know the site by this name - do you mean Juliana st in Launceston)? Info like this is useful as one is link fed and the other is a translator.

The response that the networks send out is generally correct and based on past experiences, 99 times out of a 100 the problem does exist at the viewers residence. Not all installers are equal and I'm sorry to have to say this but we don't generally hold them in high regard unless they are well known to us. Transmission issues are not always the same as reception issues, I say this because I deal with transmission issues and at this point in time I can say we have no transmission issues in Northern TAS.

Having typed all that, I'm willing to help if I can but I need some specific data to chase an intermittent issue and then present that data to the right people so we can get some action.

#11 M'bozo

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 07:13 PM

Randomly occurring across all channels in multiplex 24/7.



Observe at 0.09 and 3.47.

#12 Guest_stump_1100_*

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 06:51 AM

Ok, I can see both instances on the video. I'll check to see if there are corresponding errors logged at Mt Barrow for the same time. I doubt I'll see anything logged because it's only very minor pixelation and that could be an issue in the reception path. I'll check this morning and see what's going on (if anything).

Cheers

#13 lizclinton

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 08:34 AM

My parent’s home is 3.8 Km line of sight to the Round Hill translator at Burnie. They are using a Fracarro band 5 log-periodic antenna feeding into 5 meters of quad shield RG6 that goes to just one outlet in their unit. They are getting exactly the same break up you can see on M'bozo's video clip and while it is minor it is also quite regular and annoying. I would find it hard to believe that they of all people would have any reception path issues at their address.

#14 Alista

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 09:07 AM

Hi Stum_1100, Yes It's happening directly from Mt Barrow as well and I have line of sight. I have called WIN before and they noted it down and I stressed it happened with no other networks and at random. The lady was very nice and said someone would call me but no one did.

btw, Heazelewoods Hill is in Ulverstone I believe.

Thanks for your assistance :)

#15 Guest_stump_1100_*

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:01 AM

I checked the input to Mt Barrow for the timing of the supplied video and there were no errors logged. When I have a Maintenance tech in the area we will be able to physically check the transmitter logs but I suspect we aren't going to find anything. I say because the last RM visit (Kelcey Tier) showed good MER in and out, receive signal levels are good (instantaneous measurement that obviously can't show if we suffer from fading or interference etc) and generally all looks in spec. I'll keep an eye on it and check again on our next scheduled visit unless WIN raise a fault before that!

My parent’s home is 3.8 Km line of sight to the Round Hill translator at Burnie. They are using a Fracarro band 5 log-periodic antenna feeding into 5 meters of quad shield RG6 that goes to just one outlet in their unit. They are getting exactly the same break up you can see on M'bozo's video clip and while it is minor it is also quite regular and annoying. I would find it hard to believe that they of all people would have any reception path issues at their address.


Yep, shouldn't be a path issue between Bernie and your parents but it could be from Mt Barrow to Burnie.

Hi Stum_1100, Yes It's happening directly from Mt Barrow as well and I have line of sight. I have called WIN before and they noted it down and I stressed it happened with no other networks and at random. The lady was very nice and said someone would call me but no one did.

btw, Heazelewoods Hill is in Ulverstone I believe.

Thanks for your assistance :)


I should have known Heazlewoods Hill was Ulverstone but I didn't have access to my data at home and not 100% up to speed on the TAS sites

#16 lizclinton

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 02:07 PM

I know at the outset that RoundHill was being fed off air from Mt Barrow but the long term plan was to use a microwave link from Kelcey Tier to Round Hill as a feed source. That was a couple of years back and I would assume the microwave link is now up and running.

#17 BigBadBaz

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 06:44 PM

Lets be clear here, my team are directed by WIN to attend issues they deem are broadcast/transmission faults. My team do not interact with the public or attend issues like this unless directed to do so by WIN and if you think that's a cop out on my behalf then I'm sorry but that's the ways it works. Now what I can do is take specific information to WIN Engineering and show them there is a potential problem that needs to be addressed. What they chose to do after that is up to them. For my part, I will ensure that my team has a good look at Mt Barrow on our next scheduled routine maintenance visit. The best way to help this issue is to gather information, specific times and symptoms that can be fed back to WIN to force the issue.

Just picking up on a few details in your post, are you saying that you are seeing pixelation directly from Mt Barrow? Saying it is worse during the night or warmer weather could indicate a RF path loss issue but only off a translator because Mt Barrow is link fed. Do you see the same problems from Mt Barrow and Heazlewoods Hill (I don't know the site by this name - do you mean Juliana st in Launceston)? Info like this is useful as one is link fed and the other is a translator.

The response that the networks send out is generally correct and based on past experiences, 99 times out of a 100 the problem does exist at the viewers residence. Not all installers are equal and I'm sorry to have to say this but we don't generally hold them in high regard unless they are well known to us. Transmission issues are not always the same as reception issues, I say this because I deal with transmission issues and at this point in time I can say we have no transmission issues in Northern TAS.

Having typed all that, I'm willing to help if I can but I need some specific data to chase an intermittent issue and then present that data to the right people so we can get some action.


I'm sorry, but the way you replied to the thread implied you were associated with WIN, I've got no way of knowing one way or another. When I said 'you" in my post I meant WIN. My particular problem with the way my email was handled was that the generic nature of the reply did not take into account the facts that I had already made clear in my email ie. That I was not the only customer in my area with the same issue, that I have two antennas pointed/tuned to different transmitters with the same problem and I have a strong signal.

I see the same problem from both Mt Barrow and Heazlewoods Hill (Ulverstone) translator, others are seeing the same problem from Kelcy Tier (Devonport) and Round Hill (Burnie).

Bolded part = I believe this remains to be seen :)

Thankyou for your help, it really is appreciated.


ps it's quite bad tonight as I type - dropped out totally at 7.47 (from Mt Barrow) but I have no way of posting as M'Bozo did.

Edited by BigBadBaz, 09 January 2012 - 07:29 PM.


#18 BigBadBaz

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 07:22 PM

Randomly occurring across all channels in multiplex 24/7.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prZRdH1J7EM

Observe at 0.09 and 3.47.


Thanks for posting that M. I'm working on posting similar.

#19 M'bozo

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 08:42 PM

Thankyou for your help, it really is appreciated.


Agreed.


ps it's quite bad tonight as I type - dropped out totally at 7.47 (from Mt Barrow)


As well as Kelcey Tier, while I was watching Top Gear on Go!

One of my instruments has been monitoring this WIN multiplex for about the last 2 hours as of this post, and shows zero RS uncorrected errors . All other readings are 5x5. (Although I would expect this, assuming the translator output is a regenerated image of the input.)


Thanks for posting that M.


No worries. Pictures outdo words any day.

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:29 AM

I know at the outset that RoundHill was being fed off air from Mt Barrow but the long term plan was to use a microwave link from Kelcey Tier to Round Hill as a feed source. That was a couple of years back and I would assume the microwave link is now up and running.


Removed incorrect info!

Yes, there is a microwave link between Kelcey Tier and Round Hill.

Edited by stump_1100, 10 January 2012 - 10:43 AM.


#21 lizclinton

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:13 AM

I am wondering if the problem could be more likely in the programme feed down from Ingleburn to Mt Barrow rather than a transmission fault? I am guessing that this is delivered by fibre between Ingleburn and Kings Meadows and then microwave to the mountain. Do you know if anyone has checked the quality of the programme feed from Sydney and then between Kings Meadows and the mountain to eliminate this possibility?

#22 Guest_stump_1100_*

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 12:16 PM

I am wondering if the problem could be more likely in the programme feed down from Ingleburn to Mt Barrow rather than a transmission fault? I am guessing that this is delivered by fibre between Ingleburn and Kings Meadows and then microwave to the mountain. Do you know if anyone has checked the quality of the programme feed from Sydney and then between Kings Meadows and the mountain to eliminate this possibility?


I checked the feed (well I asked the NOC to do it) into Mt Barrow for any errors around the timing of the clip that was posted earlier in this thread - none reported! There was a tech working in the area yesterday replacing cables so that may account for some "Drop outs" but not the type of pixelation as shown in the video.

#23 manian

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 01:16 PM

Yes, this problem (dropouts/pixelation/audio squeaks off Mt Barrow) has been ongoing since approximately February/March 2011. I've phoned WIN Launceston a couple of times.

Watching WIN/GO!/GEM last night after 7PM was particularly bad.

#24 Alista

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 03:13 PM

I am guessing that this is delivered by fibre between Ingleburn and Kings Meadows and then microwave to the mountain. Do you know if anyone has checked the quality of the programme feed from Sydney and then between Kings Meadows and the mountain to eliminate this possibility?


Liz, You raise an interesting point. The microwave dish at the Kings Meadows office was replaced earlier this year (I think, or maybe late last year). Remember it was blue and had the old WIN logo on it? Well now its a new, larger white one with the red lightning bolt. Maybe this has something to do with the issue?? Something not configured correctly in Kings Meadows or on the mountain perhaps?



I've phoned WIN Launceston a couple of times.


So have I but they never did anything, nor called me back like they promised.

Edited by Alista, 10 January 2012 - 03:18 PM.


#25 BigBadBaz

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 07:18 PM

Pretty bad again today/tonight



This from around 19.15 tonight

glitches at 0.15,, 1.20, 1.45

This was direct from Mt Barrow.