Jump to content


Photo

Itunes Lossless?


  • Please log in to reply
42 replies to this topic

#26 ajm

ajm

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 10,308 posts

Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:51 PM

apparently already got the recording companies off side as see it as legitimising piracy..

http://www.theage.co...0607-1fq76.html

But obviously not enough to deter them from signing up. I suspect the "industry" people who're "furious" at the move are the ones whose exist only to lobby and prosecute on behalf of the record companies - not the record companies or the people they represent.

#27 Skid_MacMarx

Skid_MacMarx

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 8,928 posts

Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:44 PM

Sounds familiar.. similar to Sony's ATRAC Advanced Lossless format;

ATRAC Advanced Lossless data incorporates ATRAC3 and ATRAC3plus data, which means not only can you enjoy CD quality playback on your PC, but by extracting only the ATRAC3 or ATRAC3plus data, the files can also be easily transferred and listened to on ATRAC-compatible equipment.

http://www.sony.net/Products/ATRAC3/tech/aal.html



Report Claims Apple Developing High-Def Audio Format

The Guardian is reporting that Apple is working on a new audio format that would pave the way for “high definition” audio via the iTunes Music Store. This format would also have something called “adaptive streaming” baked in, which would fit the quality of the music to bandwidth and storage constraints when being streamed from iCloud and iTunes Match.

According to the report Apple has asked a London music studio to make their audio files ready for the new format, which ultimately would allow Apple to improve the quality of iTunes Match content. Where the report is unclear, is whether Apple would scale the audio quality as it was being downloaded (based on bandwidth), or if Apple would have several version of a song, varying in quality, on standby to meet a user’s connection limitations.

The report wraps up by suggesting that, due to the timing of this discovery, Apple may be preparing to unveil this higher-quality format at the company’s March 7th iPad event. It’s also worth remembering that a report surfaced only a month ago, which claimed that Neil Young spoke with Steve Jobs about a high-definition audio file format. Young noted that little interest was given to the idea.

Plus, Apple very recently rolled out a “Mastered for iTunes” initiative which urges artists to go back to the master recordings of their songs as their source material for the iTunes Store. All the components are in place for a development. This will be interesting to watch unfold.

http://isource.com/2...f-audio-format/

#28 gone_bush

gone_bush

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 5,722 posts

Posted 29 February 2012 - 01:20 PM

Re “Mastered for iTunes”: Apple’s Mastered for iTunes: Is it Legit?

From TFA:

Apple's Mastered for iTunes is pure marketing hype. It's time for Apple to get serious about offering high-resolution downloads from iTunes.



#29 Skid_MacMarx

Skid_MacMarx

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 8,928 posts

Posted 29 February 2012 - 03:33 PM

Re “Mastered for iTunes”: Apple’s Mastered for iTunes: Is it Legit?

I always thought that they sourced the Lossy AAC files from the (Higher resolution) original studio tapes.
I remember, a few years ago, announcements in regards to both U2 and Midnight Oil claiming that they had especially remastered albums for iTunes.
And, the Pink Floyd albums listed at itunes store claim to be sourced from the recent Guthrie remasters.

My boys have been saying for some time now that a lot of artists only release their material on iTunes.

I have not purchased any material from iTunes because it is not 'CD quality.'

Lets hope, if they ever release CD quality music, it sourced from higher resolution masters.

I agree, even if they use higher resolution masters, lossy AAC files won't sound as good as CDs*.
I suppose I should say they won't have the same 'fidelity' as CDs.
Maybe, they are better than the "run of the mill" AAC files, I don't know.
Also, it maybe a call for independent acts to offer better sourced material.
http://www.apple.com...red-for-itunes/
Higher rez files are one thing..poorly mastered albums are another.
Hence the whole remastering fad.

In regards to poor mastering, there has been a lot controversy surrounding a recent Red Hot Chili Peppers release;
http://en.wikipedia....s_war#Criticism

#30 MLXXX

MLXXX

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 5,254 posts

Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:00 PM

I agree, even if they use higher resolution masters, lossy AAC files won't sound as good as CDs*.

iTune downloads appear to be currently supplied at 256kbps AAC. Such a high bitrate for AAC stereo would be very difficult to to distinguish from uncompressed versions, even with a direct A B comparison. They would sound the same, 99% if not 100% of the time for most listeners. At an earlier time, only half that bitrate, 128kbps AAC, was used for iTunes. At that time, 256kbps AAC was supplied at a premium price and known as iTunes plus.

If anyone doubts how good 256kbps stereo AAC sounds, try some double blind ABX tests using an ABX capable player such as foobar2000.

#31 :)

:)

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 31,392 posts

Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:10 PM

skid I have 200+ cds in itunes plus which is AAC+ 256k and is lossy. these ripped directly off cd via itunes and are easily distiguishable from CD. this can playback vs cd on either my bedroom system, lounge room 2ch system, lounge av system and either headphone setups. but for the purpose it serves ie background music or music on the go, its really quite adequate. in case of any serious listening requirement I can play cd/sacd/dvda/vinyl directly of disc for the full uncompromised performance. I dare say for most public who really dont give a rats and quite happy with compressed commercial radio even mp3 is good enough. for the discerning types which I would suggest is a very small niche there might be a market for itunes lossless. in the mean time for those I suspect they are ripping their cds already via apple lossless or other "lossless" means...

#32 MLXXX

MLXXX

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 5,254 posts

Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:29 PM

If using a standalone encoder, that does not alter ("normalize") levels, it would be wishful thinking to suggest that 256kbps stereo AAC is "easily distinguishable" from its level matched 16bit 44.1kHz CD equivalent.

EDIT: Why a rip from a CD, converted to 256kbps AAC, sounded "easily distinghuishable" from an unconverted rip from a CD could be due to any of these interfering factors:

1. the encoding software seeks to normalise levels rather than leaving them intact
2. the playback software produces a different volume level when decoding AAC
3. related to 2, the playback DAC operates differently with a 48kHz PCM bitstream (usual output of an AAC decoder), than a 44.1kHz PCM bitstream (the CD rate)

You need to compare like with like. If not, you may find that even a lossless encoding of a CD rip sounds different to the original CD rip.

Edited by MLXXX, 01 March 2012 - 11:17 AM.


#33 Skid_MacMarx

Skid_MacMarx

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 8,928 posts

Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:16 PM

Al, I listen to the "lossy" AAC music files (which I have ripped) through portable devices.. and don't have any issues with it.
Although.. I notice shortcomings when I listen to the same AAC files through my "high(er) end" sound system.
The ripped ALAC files don't have those shortcomings ( I use ALAC via the Apple TV). The first generation ATV has RCA analog connectors.

My point , in regards to all of this is, if musicians are only going to release their material exclusively through iTunes.. it would be nice if they offer at least a 'CD quality' version.

MLXXX, as for comparing ripped ALAC files to CDs, I'd hesitate to compare as the CD/SACD player has a much better converter than the Apple TV. So, I can't help out there.

Apparently, ALAC (Apple Lossless) is now open source;
http://apple.slashdo...now-open-source

By now, you would expect all of the major commercial iTunes releases to be sourced from 24/96 PCM masters. So, I don't understand why this whole "Mastered for iTunes" business is a new thing.

#34 :)

:)

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 31,392 posts

Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:25 PM

Al, I listen to the "lossy" AAC music files (which I have ripped) through portable devices.. and don't have any issues with it.
Although.. I notice shortcomings when I listen to the same AAC files through my "high(er) end" sound system.
The ripped ALAC files don't have those shortcomings ( I use ALAC via the Apple TV). The first generation ATV has RCA analog connectors.

My point , in regards to all of this is, if musicians are only going to release their material exclusively through iTunes.. it would be nice if they offer at least a 'CD quality' version.

MLXXX, as for comparing ripped ALAC files to CDs, I'd hesitate to compare as the CD/SACD player has a much better converter than the Apple TV. So, I can't help out there.

Apparently, ALAC (Apple Lossless) is now open source;
http://apple.slashdo...now-open-source

By now, you would expect all of the major commercial iTunes releases to be sourced from 24/96 PCM masters. So, I don't understand why this whole "Mastered for iTunes" business is a new thing.


skid, I very much agree. if musicians releasing via itunes atleast cd quality would be necessary I think.

re mastered for itunes a good article here, definitely a lot of skepticism. on other hand if it means "true hi res download format" as suggested then that is a good thing :)
http://www.carltonau...=node/view/1657

#35 Skid_MacMarx

Skid_MacMarx

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 8,928 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:38 AM

No announcement of the "high def" audio format at the keynote yesterday.. maybe later in the year?
Heard something about 1080p movies... is that only available through the new third-generation ATV.. or does it include 2nd-generation ATVs as well.
I have the 1st generation ATV.. I'm tempted to just use that as an ALAC music server,, and buy the new 1080p model for movie rentals and MBL streaming.

#36 :)

:)

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 31,392 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:57 AM

skid I dont think older gen atvs 1080p. its only the new one. but not something an issue for me as we tend to only use atvs for music, photos, home movies so 1080p not really of relevance :)

#37 myrantz

myrantz

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 16,031 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:00 AM

skid I dont think older gen atvs 1080p. its only the new one. but not something an issue for me as we tend to only use atvs for music, photos, home movies so 1080p not really of relevance :)

IIRC if you jailbreak it or something it'd do 1080p?

#38 blybo

blybo

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,462 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:08 AM

I really notice a drop in quality if using my iPhone4's remote app to select files to play through the ATV2. I assume, although I haven't been particularly bothered to find out, that the remote app streams the downgraded version from my phone rather than the lossless versions on the iMac...

:cry:

#39 :)

:)

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 31,392 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:15 AM

I really notice a drop in quality if using my iPhone4's remote app to select files to play through the ATV2. I assume, although I haven't been particularly bothered to find out, that the remote app streams the downgraded version from my phone rather than the lossless versions on the iMac...

:cry:


apple air streaming is definitely a down res. you defintiely want to be coming straight off imac/macbook or via older appletv's with their built in hard drives.

#40 blybo

blybo

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,462 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:31 AM

apple air streaming is definitely a down res. you defintiely want to be coming straight off imac/macbook or via older appletv's with their built in hard drives.


Which is a pity as the main reason I want it is for streaming from our alfresco area without having to go back inside to select stuff all the time. Still I haven't put the speakers in yet so it's all theory at this point. I must get around to setting up some playlists rather than just selecting albums...

#41 swordfish805

swordfish805

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 4,314 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:10 PM

Can someone explain to me why'd I want to stream content from my iPhone/iPad to the AppleTV? Wouldn't I always get at least the same or better result letting the AppleTV play the content it has (or pulls from iTunes on my PC)?

#42 :)

:)

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 31,392 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:22 PM

Can someone explain to me why'd I want to stream content from my iPhone/iPad to the AppleTV? Wouldn't I always get at least the same or better result letting the AppleTV play the content it has (or pulls from iTunes on my PC)?


current model appletv is based on streaming. either off your pc/macbook/imac or off idevice. thinking is you or friends etc have content on idevice and can stream via atv to your tv or av system.

#43 blybo

blybo

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,462 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:30 PM

Can someone explain to me why'd I want to stream content from my iPhone/iPad to the AppleTV? Wouldn't I always get at least the same or better result letting the AppleTV play the content it has (or pulls from iTunes on my PC)?


Would certainly prefer to use the remote app purely as a remote for streaming the iTunes library on our iMac to the ATV but alas that is not how it works. Still clunky to get best quality if your using it for an outside zone though. Choice is to put up with inferior sound as background noise with remote selection available via iphone/iPad app or walk to the media room to change selections, neither is perfect.