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#1 alanh

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 03:36 PM

All,
It is proposed to allow all those who live in the remote licence areas to be able to receive the VAST Service from 15 December 2010. This is only for direct to home satellite reception. It makes no promises on the start date for remote terrestrial transmitters such as Alice Springs, Mt Isa, etc.

VAST contains a;
North Eastern Australian service covering NT, Qld. The programs are played in Eastern Standard Time (UTC+10)
South Eastern Australian service covering NSW, Vic, SA and Tas The programs are played in Eastern Daylight time (UTC+11) and Eastern Standard Time as appropriate.
Common Eastern Australian Service containing HD programs.

Available program streams;
OneHD, TEN, Eleven, 7 central, 7 mate, 7 two, Imparja, GEM, Go! Regional news from other areas so initially Mildura, GTS/BKN, WIN SE/Riverland.
ABC 21, 22, 23, 24 and SBS HD will be available and possibly NITV will be added. Note DrP. No SBS1 SD.

News from 7 Central and Imparja and ABC is to be covered as it is now.

Viewer note;
"Viewers residing in regional licence or metropolitan areas in known deficiency (Category B reception areas), receive access as soon as they are eligible to do so (but no earlier than six months before the digital switchover date in their licence area)"

Licence area map. The remote area is shown in yellow.

This will provide digital signals in the licence area prior to the switchoff date just like the metro areas started in 2001 and will be switched off in 2013.

A DVB-S2/MPEG-4 HD satellite receiver is required, the present Aurora receivers will not work. The dish and cabling in good condition will work with the new receiver.
Note:
This post does not apply to the Western Zone at all. WA has to keep waiting!

AlanH

#2 M'bozo

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 04:38 PM

Link


Edit: Took my foot out of my mouth.

Edited by M'bozo, 20 October 2010 - 08:03 PM.


#3 alanh

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 06:01 PM

Marc,
Only in the yellow parts of the maps below
Southern Tasmania
Northern Tasmania.

There's an early opportunity if you wish to drive to these areas!

AlanH

#4 Smacca

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 01:52 AM

Note DrP. No SBS1 SD.

Really? Picking up both SD and HD versions of SBS ONE here, AlanH.

This post does not apply to the Western Zone at all. WA has to keep waiting!

Wrong again, ArmchairH. Test 1, 2 and 3 are currently broadcasting Ten West, GWN and WIN WA in that exact order. WA is as ready as Remote Central.

#5 DrP

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 05:35 AM

I suspect you'll find that alanh has not looked at the transmission to see what is actually there instead relying on some documentation, that for various yet-to-be-announced reasons such as "I'm under an NDA", he will be unable to cite.

#6 alanh

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 10:51 PM

Smacca,
You are not talking about the WA Version of VAST. The funding is yet to be agreed between DBCDE and GWN/WIN. To receive it you will have to have a receiver of the VAST specifications (DVB-S2/MPEG-4 encrypted). So how did you get it enabled?

Have you tried to get authorisation for a VAST specified box from GWN or WINWA?

DrP,
Can't you admit that DVB-S2 and MPEG-4 is being used in VAST! VAST Technical Specification I have already posted the the technical details of the satellite part, you can see the commercial and ABC programs and their transponder and that they are all DVB-S2/MPEG-4. HD and SD. VAST transponders One per network.


Receiver authorisation will not happen until July 2013. This is DBCDE policy and they are paying for satellite time. You are only talking of the feeds to existing terrestrial transmitters including SBS Perth. Remember that Aurora is DVB-S/MPEG-2 not BMAC analog. The feed to the new commercial TV transmitters is not "VAST" but transmitter feeds.



AlanH

#7 DrP

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 05:57 AM

Oh dear. I see the periodic lunacy has set in once again. Post reported.

It seems that when ever anyone demonstrates that alanh has posted false/incorrect/misleading information, rather than accepting reality, he starts posting garbage. I have no doubt that this latest round of garbage distribution was provoked by smacca explaining that SBS SD is being transmitted and also by another thread where alanh had his 'log periodic antennas are no good' posts rebuked by none less than the CSIRO.



The reality of the situation that completely evades alanh is that MPEG-2 is alive and kicking and forms part of the VAST service. Once again the challenge goes out to alanh to link to a post where anyone said that MPEG-4 AVC and / or DVB-S2 would not form part of the VAST service.

As usual I expect that alanh will fail to provide such links simply because, contrary to the implication of his post above, no such posts exist.... or perhaps its just that an NDA prevents him from linking to them. ;)

A tip to you alanh: Before you wave something round as proof, it might pay for you to actually read that something to ensure that it actually supports your position.

12369 V tp 2 VAST DVB-S2 MPEG-2 Irdeto 2 30000-3/5 8PSK

MPEG4 or MPEG2 encoding


Edited by DrP, 04 November 2010 - 07:08 AM.


#8 Smacca

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 01:35 PM

AlanH, remember you said SBS ONE SD doesn't exist? Remember? It was a couple of posts back. Care to explain that? Enlighten us.

Smacca,
You are not talking about the WA Version of VAST.

Yes I am.

The funding is yet to be agreed between DBCDE and GWN/WIN.

Funding for what? The WA channels are all alive and ready to go. Whatever deal that needs to be done has already happened. Whether that has been communicated to the public, or whether the launch of it will tie in with stage 2 terrestrial rollout is another thing NONE of us can answer.

To receive it you will have to have a receiver of the VAST specifications (DVB-S2/MPEG-4 encrypted). So how did you get it enabled?

I didn't get anything enabled. It was accidentally free-to-air for a period of time.

Have you tried to get authorisation for a VAST specified box from GWN or WINWA?

No, I haven't. I don't own a VAST specified box.

#9 viewer

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 05:03 PM

Perhaps smacca you could link him to the post on the other forum where you posted the screenshots with VAST transmitting fta, justifying that at times, you don't need their VAST box to see it. Hopefully things will improve on that front...crossed fingers.

#10 alanh

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 10:41 PM

smacca,
So has this feed got 72, GO! OneHD, 7Mate and Gem?

If it is received on a non HD box it is not the WA version of VAST but a transmitter feed.

Viewer,
Where is a screen shot from a VAST specified box and its been enabled. Otherwise its a transmitter feed not VAST.

AlanH

#11 Smacca

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 12:42 AM

If it is received on a non HD box it is not the WA version of VAST but a transmitter feed.

Which transmitters are using it?

#12 alanh

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 12:53 AM

Smacca,
There is no western version of VAST fo no transmitters are using it because it is not there yet.

The Kalgoorlie transmitter is being with a specific feed for it, Mawson, Karratha.... The capacity of the satellite channel using a single transponder will only carry 3 SD programs. The DVB-S2/MPEG-4 satellite channel will carry more programs including HD.

Alanh

#13 Smacca

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:13 AM

Smacca,
There is no western version of VAST fo no transmitters are using it because it is not there yet.

The Kalgoorlie transmitter is being with a specific feed for it, Mawson, Karratha.... The capacity of the satellite channel using a single transponder will only carry 3 SD programs. The DVB-S2/MPEG-4 satellite channel will carry more programs including HD.

Alanh

So you're saying these channels - Test 1,2,3 - are going to be specifically for VAST transmitters in WA, and not for direct-to-home viewers?

#14 alanh

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:42 AM

SMACCA,
No I am not saying that.

The DBCDE has obviously told GWN/WIN that they must start digital broadcasting, so they installed the minimum number of transmitters ie 1 per licence area. To make it even cheaper they picked the lowest power transmitters except Mawson which already exists. These transmitters are being fed from a single transponder. This will stop once the WA version of VAST starts.

Once the agreement between GWN/WIN and the DBCDE occurs and the DVB-S2/MPEG-4 satellite system for WA is running then it will be used as a feed to remote transmitters. eg. Karratha, Pt Hedland, Broome, Kunnunurra. Ie excluding SW/Gt Southern/Central Agricultural, Kalgoorlie/Esperence and Geraldton. I don't know what will happen here, particularly if the Bunbury transmitter will be separately fed for the 200,000 population. Virtually all community funded analog transmitters will be switched off to be replaced by satellite receivers at the viewers' places.

AlanH

#15 Smacca

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 03:35 AM

You're refusing to accept that Test 1, 2 and 3 will form part of the services available to VAST equipment holders in the west. That's what these Test channels are. Not just for terrestrial because they're in MPEG-2. Bloody Imparja and SC Central are in MPEG-2 as well. That means nothing. The Test chanenls for WA are encrypted using VAST's Irdeto 2 system, proven when they accidentally went free along with the rest of VAST. They will clearly be used for direct-to-home viewers, and possibly terrestrial sites.

The point I've been trying to make is WA is as-ready as Central when it comes to getting people online. The maximum amount of regional WA channels are there, ready to be watched. WA won't need to "wait a while" this time, because by the looks of things, we're ready now and it's only a matter of time before and official announcement is made.

#16 DrP

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 06:42 AM

Clearly the WA service is essentially ready to roll and as smacca has pointed out, its currently MPEG-2. It makes complete sense that the WA service is MPEG-2 as this allows for terrestrial re-transmission for larger remote sites that won't be switched to DTH satellite service.

If MPEG-4 AVC is employed for the WA 'VAST' service, terrestrial re-transmission will require additional equipment at each terrestrial site to transcode to MPEG-2 or such sites will not receive terrestrial digital television until after 2013 (referring to that well used government document) and given the test status of the WA service, such a long time frame seems unlikely at this point.

The 'VAST' service specification includes MPEG-2 support. We have already seen MPEG-2 used in the eastern VAST service.

In one fell swoop this information has completely proven what several people have said regarding terrestrial re-transmission and completely disproven what one person has said.

If nothing else, it will certainly be interesting to watch the rollout of digital TV across WA.

#17 viewer

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:40 PM

smacca,
So has this feed got 72, GO! OneHD, 7Mate and Gem?

If it is received on a non HD box it is not the WA version of VAST but a transmitter feed.

Viewer,
Where is a screen shot from a VAST specified box and its been enabled. Otherwise its a transmitter feed not VAST.

AlanH



Ummm.. I can't verify that AlanH, as I can only refer to what I have seen smacca post up. I do not believe that he has hoodwinked us in any way.

I would rather smacca reveal where the screenshots are located, as this is not my "call", to link to smacca's own post. I think I would be "out of order" for me to do that to someone's personal post. Maybe I'm old fashioned?

#18 Smacca

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 04:45 PM

I really shouldn't need to prove my point. AlanH knows I have a satellite setup, and I know that he doesn't and never will. While I provide information directly from the horses mouth, he provides information from a bunch of standards manuals and guidelines written by the flea living near the horses arse.

Anyway, here's the screenshots showing what I saw when I scanned VAST channels in on my Dreambox 800:

Test 1
Test 2
Test 3


EDIT: Added direct links.

Edited by Smacca, 05 November 2010 - 07:06 PM.


#19 DrP

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 05:11 PM

Viewing attachments on Austech requires membership of the Austech forum. For the sake of people that may not want to sign up, please put the images on this forum's attachment facility.

As for anything as fundamentally clear as images convincing alanh that he's full of sh*t, forget it. Others have provided images demonstrating facts that alanh denied... and it didn't do a thing. He just kept on spewing forth the same old crap. He's either deranged or a troll. I'm picking deranged because he's not particularly good as a troll.

Edited by DrP, 05 November 2010 - 05:15 PM.


#20 Smacca

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:30 PM

As for anything as fundamentally clear as images convincing alanh that he's full of sh*t, forget it. Others have provided images demonstrating facts that alanh denied... and it didn't do a thing. He just kept on spewing forth the same old crap. He's either deranged or a troll. I'm picking deranged because he's not particularly good as a troll.

Agreed, but proving our point to others who have to read this crap is just as important.

Here's some SBS screenshots:

SBS Channel List 1
SBS Channel List 2
SBS HD NSW
SBS ONE NSW

#21 alanh

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 08:07 PM

When you both produce images from Go! or 72 or 7mate, GEM or One HD from within the WA border in WA Time. I will believe you, up till then you are not viewing the new WA version of VAST.

Mysat "The VAST service commences officially for eligible viewers in all states except for Western Australia on 15 December 2010. The WA start date will be announced shortly."

What are the frequencies you receive. SBS has used a national footprint since the beginning of digital for transmitter feeds. What compression system is being used?

DrP will not be enabled to receive VAST until the second half of next year provided he can prove he cannot get an adequate TV signal at 10 m above the ground!

AlanH

#22 DrP

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:41 PM

When you both produce images from Go! or 72 or 7mate, GEM or One HD from within the WA border in WA Time. I will believe you, up till then you are not viewing the new WA version of VAST.

Mysat "The VAST service commences officially for eligible viewers in all states except for Western Australia on 15 December 2010. The WA start date will be announced shortly."

What are the frequencies you receive. SBS has used a national footprint since the beginning of digital for transmitter feeds. What compression system is being used?

DrP will not be enabled to receive VAST until the second half of next year provided he can prove he cannot get an adequate TV signal at 10 m above the ground!

AlanH

Dribble. Dribble. Dribble. I think your bib has fallen off again.

alanh: "I don't have to prove anything. I am God. All that I say is true. You lot on the other hand have to prove that 1+1 = 2."

Meanwhile I think its high time we let this idiot blunder on aimlessly in his own little dream world. Everyone and I mean everyone here has demonstrated beyond any doubt, time and time again that alanh simply does not have any clue about what is actually happening. If bullsh*t was currency he'd be a billionaire.

Hey alanh, wasn't ABC, WIN and PRIME supposed be transmitting MPEG-4 AVC terrestrially by now... you know, when they completed their new playout facilities, as stated by you (link to post provided on demand... unlike your continual inability to link to posts where you say people said something)? ^_^

Edited by DrP, 05 November 2010 - 09:45 PM.


#23 Smacca

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:49 PM

When you both produce images from Go! or 72 or 7mate, GEM or One HD from within the WA border in WA Time. I will believe you, up till then you are not viewing the new WA version of VAST.

Are you accusing me of fraud? Do you think I doctored the screenshots, AlanH?

What are the frequencies you receive.

LyngSat will tell you what frequencies I have access to. Test 1, 2 and 3 are clearly listed on there, part of the VAST package.

SBS has used a national footprint since the beginning of digital for transmitter feeds. What compression system is being used?

What does this have to do with anything posted in this thread? Nothing.

Edited by Smacca, 05 November 2010 - 10:53 PM.


#24 alanh

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 02:16 AM

Smacca,
You are just reinforcing my statement that there is no WA Version of VAST on air. This is what I have been saying from the start.

"The VAST service commences officially for eligible viewers in all states except for Western Australia on 15 December 2010. The WA start date will be announced shortly." This does not mean necessarily that test transmissions have started. http://www.mysattv.com.au/ also

" IMPORTANT - The unique smart card and set top box are matched at factory level. Smart cards cannot be swapped or used in multiple boxes."

Satellite set-top boxes are now available from authorised distributors. Altech UEC are the initial supplier and distributor of these boxes. Sales or technical enquiries can be made directly to UEC by calling (02) 9425 5777 ."

In Lyngsat the 6 transponders (remembering they have different programs for NE, SE and one for HD) are for the Eastern Version of VAST which includes the HD programs. You can see it states the modulation is DVB-S2. Where is the 5 transponders for Western Australian programs?

Your first test link does not work and the others say they are 720 x 576 SD programs. Your images also say they are DVB-S. Your pictures only show the SD programs which are being retransmitted on the new DTV transmitters in WA. As I said you have a transmitter feed. The SBS HD shots are also DVB-S which is what SBS uses to feed their transmitters.
If you had real VAST you would be able to view 8 different commercial programs of which 3 are in HD.

Whilst your receiver is capable of DVB-S2/DVB-S reception, your pictures you have posted are definately not VAST or any equivalent because they are not DVB-S2. You have not broken the encryption in the true VAST transmissions.

AlanH

#25 DrP

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 05:22 AM

I think the same cycle is about to repeat here. alanh says something is fact. Reality leaps up and contradicts him. alanh keeps stating his false 'facts'. Components of the eastern VAST service have been in live operation for some time now and yet alanh still disputes what reality readily demonstrates to VAST viewers on a daily basis.

There's the real world, and then there is alanh's world.


smacca, you "leet haxor", breaking VAST encryption like that so everyone could view all VAST services. How clever of you. ;)

Oh, by the way, it seems that UEC is the supplier as per that government media release that "doesn't cut it". Fancy that. :lol:

Edited by DrP, 06 November 2010 - 06:28 AM.