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Subtitles On Gem


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#1 willwalk

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 09:21 PM

In other states, do closed captions work on some selected Nine network programs on GEM as yet? I saw some nine network programs on GEM here in Darwin but subtitles don't work as yet despite the program saying CC or S. Is it a national issue or a local issue?

#2 _Roger_

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 11:21 AM

In other states, do closed captions work on some selected Nine network programs on GEM as yet? I saw some nine network programs on GEM here in Darwin but subtitles don't work as yet despite the program saying CC or S. Is it a national issue or a local issue?


They aren't being shown in Hobart (via WIN) as yet. I've lodged a complaint via FreeTV website as it is at a minimum a breach of their code of practice. I'm fairly sure they're showing repeats without captions which aired on the main channel with captions and if so then they're also in breach of their licence conditions. I'm sure they'll sort it out - the same thing happened with GO for a while. It makes you wonder if they monitor these things though as they are supposed to be monitoring them.

#3 willwalk

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 04:40 PM

They aren't being shown in Hobart (via WIN) as yet. I've lodged a complaint via FreeTV website as it is at a minimum a breach of their code of practice. I'm fairly sure they're showing repeats without captions which aired on the main channel with captions and if so then they're also in breach of their licence conditions. I'm sure they'll sort it out - the same thing happened with GO for a while. It makes you wonder if they monitor these things though as they are supposed to be monitoring them.


Thanks for clearing it up, I thought they were in breach of the rules. The rules say every stations and multichannels must show subtitles on programs on S or CC, am i correct? I am not saying they should subtitle all, but just the ones with CC or S on.

#4 _Roger_

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 07:02 PM

Thanks for clearing it up, I thought they were in breach of the rules. The rules say every stations and multichannels must show subtitles on programs on S or CC, am i correct? I am not saying they should subtitle all, but just the ones with CC or S on.

It's all a bit messy as there is the Commercial Television Code of Practice and the Broadcasting Licence requirements to consider.

In summary the 2010 code of practice (section 1.24) says that licensees will:
  • Ensure that closed-captioning is clearly indicated in program guides, promotions, etc and at the start of the program.
  • Exercise due care in broadcasting captions and ensure there are adequate procedures for monitoring the transmissions.
  • Provide adequate advice if scheduled closed captioning cannot be transmitted and if technical problems prevent this from being provided in closed captioned form then it must be broadcast in open captions as soon as reasonably practicable.
  • (related to emergency broadcasting).
The licence requirement (which comes under the Broadcasting Services Act 1992) for the multichannels says that if a program was broadcast with captions on the main channel then it must be broadcast with captions when broadcast on a secondary channel. This being a licence requirement has a lot more legal standing than the code of practice. The National broadcasters (ABC & SBS) have a different set of "rules" just to make it even more complicated.

I'm actually surprised they haven't resolved this as yet (or let me know they're investigating it) unless it's a problem which has had to go back to channel 9 (but I haven't heard any complaints from the mainland which is what occurred when GO was missing captions). I have had two previous issues with captions on both Southern Cross and TDT and they were extremely helpful and both dealt with the day after they were notified of the problem (configuration error with their equipment in both instances). I guess we'll just have to wait and see. If nothing's happened after a week or so I'll look at escalating it via ACMA but I'll then need to be more specific.

#5 Aurora8

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:55 AM

I know (have seen) that The Closer is captioned on the channel, at least via Nine stations.

#6 _Roger_

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 07:48 AM

I know (have seen) that The Closer is captioned on the channel, at least via Nine stations.

Thanks for that - it suggests that it's most probably a WIN problem (at least in Hobart).

#7 _Roger_

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 08:23 AM

Still no response from WIN so I've sent a complaint to ACMA. WIN are broadcasting captions on GEM for the cricket which is being simulcast so it might be they're limited to 2 caption streams (normally WIN and GO) but they still should be notifying viewers on GEM of "technical difficulties" if that's the case - this is what Southern Cross are doing with 7mate. If there are still no captions in Darwin in might be worth chasing it up from that end as well.

#8 _Roger_

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 07:55 AM

I have finally received a response from WIN who are hoping to have the problem rectified within the next week.

#9 Redboy

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 09:51 AM

Yeah here in Adelaide, recently saw subtitle from GEM. Subtitle are lot of missing....poor form, this is 2010 I can't believe it.

Edited by Redboy, 20 November 2010 - 09:52 AM.


#10 willwalk

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 04:05 PM

Yeah here in Adelaide, recently saw subtitle from GEM. Subtitle are lot of missing....poor form, this is 2010 I can't believe it.


I have yet to see any subtitles on GEM's programs. The only subtitles I've seen on GEM so far is the cricket in the he recent one dayers against sri lanka when it was effectively NINE HD. I've writtem to Channel 9 regarding the matter, and recently got a reply. It says channel 9 is working on the subtitles on GEM, but i am yet to see any evidence of it.

They better lift their game before 2011. Afterall as Redboy has said this is 2010 when no discrimination against anybody is supposed to occur.

Edited by willwalk, 23 November 2010 - 04:07 PM.


#11 _Roger_

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 06:17 AM

I have yet to see any subtitles on GEM's programs.


There are still no captions on GEM in Hobart either (apart from cricket and possibly other simulcast programs). This would seem to suggest that their current hardware/software is limited to two concurrent caption streams or there is some other major limitation. If it was a simple configuration error I'm sure it would have been fixed by now. Unfortunately it means we might be waiting longer than anticipated. Hobart still doesn't have captions on 7mate either (at least none that I've seen).

Incidentally the captioning requirement for multi-channels will change after Dec 2013 and the secondary channels will be required to be captioned as per the main channel (ie all prime-time programs, subject to quota requirements, etc). This was supposed to occur after the simulcast period ends (this date is different for different areas) but the stations complained that they wouldn't have enough time to implement it for some areas so it has been deferred until the end of the analogue switch off.

#12 willwalk

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 04:35 PM

Hobart still doesn't have captions on 7mate either (at least none that I've seen).


Off topic - even though subtitles don't automatically work on 7Mate here in Darwin, I found a workaround. Instead of using the subtitles button on the digital tv remote control, use the teletext button and press 801, the manual way - subtitles should work depending if the show is closed captioned. but to turn off the subtitles, press cancel. That workaround applies on 7MATE only.

That workaround works on my HD TV set, but situations on different tv may differ depending on the HD TV set or HD set top box and remote control that comes with it.

Results may differ or vary depending on the config of HD TV set or set top box.

Back on topic, it sounded like GEM is starting off in the same manner on what GO! started off at first - national ads and lack of subtitles. Sometimes a delay of the channel may be a good thing as long as they get the product right.

#13 _Roger_

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 10:28 AM

Off topic - even though subtitles don't automatically work on 7Mate here in Darwin, I found a workaround. Instead of using the subtitles button on the digital tv remote control, use the teletext button and press 801, the manual way - subtitles should work depending if the show is closed captioned. but to turn off the subtitles, press cancel. That workaround applies on 7MATE only.

That workaround works on my HD TV set, but situations on different tv may differ depending on the HD TV set or HD set top box and remote control that comes with it.

Results may differ or vary depending on the config of HD TV set or set top box.

This is interesting - I thought I'd fixed my pvr software to deal with this - similar fault here with TDT a year or so ago made me update the demuxer so it optionally passed through a fixed teletext page as the stream if there wasn't a specified caption stream in the PMT. Apparently it's not working in this particular instance so it looks like I'll have to dig into the code again. I've had a look at the data stream and a flag in the descriptor identifies it as a basic teletext page rather than a subtitle/caption page (teletext_type is 0x01 instead of 0x02). I've emailed a contact at Southern Cross but they're out of the office until tomorrow. It'll get fixed fairly quickly once they're aware of the problem. The manual page select doesn't work on my Sony TV unfortunately.

Back on topic, it sounded like GEM is starting off in the same manner on what GO! started off at first - national ads and lack of subtitles. Sometimes a delay of the channel may be a good thing as long as they get the product right.

It's a little bit different as Nine seem to have got it reasonably right although I think it was rushed a bit in order to compete with 7mate. Suggesting it be delayed to address the requirements of a minority might put some people off side. :) In the meantime I guess I'll just have to continue downloading the captions.

#14 willwalk

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:40 PM

This is interesting - I thought I'd fixed my pvr software to deal with this - similar fault here with TDT a year or so ago made me update the demuxer so it optionally passed through a fixed teletext page as the stream if there wasn't a specified caption stream in the PMT. Apparently it's not working in this particular instance so it looks like I'll have to dig into the code again. I've had a look at the data stream and a flag in the descriptor identifies it as a basic teletext page rather than a subtitle/caption page (teletext_type is 0x01 instead of 0x02). I've emailed a contact at Southern Cross but they're out of the office until tomorrow. It'll get fixed fairly quickly once they're aware of the problem. The manual page select doesn't work on my Sony TV unfortunately.


Off topic I tried the automatic subtitle button on 7mate on my HDTV set and this time it works. No need to do a manual way of doing teletext or 801 on 7mate now.

Edited by willwalk, 29 November 2010 - 11:43 PM.


#15 _Roger_

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 07:54 AM

WIN finally appear to have sorted out the closed captioning issue with GEM in Hobart. Is it now working in Darwin?

#16 'ct'

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 03:10 AM

WIN finally appear to have sorted out the closed captioning issue with GEM in Hobart. Is it now working in Darwin?

Seemingly not fixed by WIN Hobart until the recent MediaHub changeover.

#17 willwalk

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 09:17 PM

WIN finally appear to have sorted out the closed captioning issue with GEM in Hobart. Is it now working in Darwin?


The last time i checked with GEM in Darwin is subtitles still doens't work. It's not WIN's fault as WIN doesn't own Nine in Darwin so it is not related to Mediahub. The Darwin feed of GEM is is possibly being played out by TCN in Sydney.

But rather than whinging about it (there is more to life than that), i just switch to other stations where subtitles do work and at least they do work in 7MATE, go! and other stations.

Edited by willwalk, 14 March 2011 - 09:19 PM.


#18 hrh

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 01:50 AM

Seemingly not fixed by WIN Hobart until the recent MediaHub changeover.

Closed captioning never worked on STW 90 HD for native HD programming even after their presentation operation was moved to Wollongong. If there were the closed captions showing on 90 it was only ever when it was upconverted from the SD if that had closed captions. WIN Wollongong didn't seem fazed that they were in breach. It has only been since STW has moved to the "Hub" about a month ago that HD (GEM) has had closed captions as it should have been for a long time.