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Plasma "dirty Screen" Effect Worth Putting Up With?


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#1 3daysofrain

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 08:48 AM

Guys i've posted this in the Kuro thread but wanted some opinions as probably relates to a lot of plasmas. I've had my LX50a Kuro for about 2 months now and up to about 300hrs. From day one I noticed a dirty screen effect. Its like vertical dark lines that are present on the panel, and when a picture, usually light in color, moves on the screen you can see these lines behind it. Mostly noticeable on sport and 360 games, but really just on everything with fast panning.

I'm wondering if I should call Pioneer and ask for a replacement or if this is just a plasma characteristic. Don't really wanna have to swap and go through run-in hours if another one will do the same.

I found a thread about earlier Pioneers doing this here-> http://www.avforums....ad.php?t=466376

What would you suggest?

Ps. Just opened the curtains and noticed that with the screen turned off, you can actually see the lines on it. So it looks like its the way the screen is built.

Edited by 3daysofrain, 09 August 2008 - 08:53 AM.


#2 diesel

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 08:52 AM

There was a similar thread many months ago, again only Pioneer specific. I can't recall the outcome, but I think it was a faulty unit

#3 3daysofrain

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 09:26 AM

Hmm, so its not a common issue with plasmas then? The picture looks fantastic but it is really noticeable to me and distracts me. Looks like I better call :(

#4 t1000

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 09:31 AM

Hmm, so its not a common issue with plasmas then? The picture looks fantastic but it is really noticeable to me and distracts me. Looks like I better call :(


Dude where are your contrast and brightness set ? You might se set too high and what you are seeing is slight image retention from scene to scene.

1000

#5 3daysofrain

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 09:50 AM

Contrast is at 40 and Brightness to 0. The lines are always in the same spot though man, so its not scene specific. Been reading through those pages on that link I provided and someone said they put their screen on no channel fuzz overnight and now its gone. I'm 'pretty' sure its built into the panel as I can see on screen with it turned off but i might give this a shot before calling Pio.

#6 fred2

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 10:41 AM

The problem is mentioned in a review at http://www.hdtvtest....Calibration.htm

"In a totally dark room, we spotted some blotches and streaks of uneven brightness on our Pioneer PDP-LX5090 review sample when the screen was completely black (e.g. blank input or 0% stimulus pattern). Fortunately these blotching/ streaking were not visible to our naked eyes once there's some actual content on screen (even a 10% stimulus test pattern was sufficient), or when there's enough ambient light. It's not that these conditions eradicate the blotching/ streaking, but that they prevent our eyes from becoming sensitive enough to detect the brightness difference between these blotches/ streaks and the idling luminance on screen."

#7 Stone

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 11:24 AM

I haven't noticed it on my LX508, so they must either be really minor or a problem with your panel. Give Pioneer a call and they will come out and assess the problem for you :)

#8 dragonjen

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 11:32 AM

I had the same issue with my LG 50PG60UD one of the latest panels from LG. had lines running vertically accross the screen very hard to notice unless you were on a white screen. I had mine replace as it's a fault with the panel. Contact Piooner ASAP

#9 3daysofrain

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 11:33 AM

Thanks Stone. When you get time, if you could try out some material that is light coloured and moving or games and move and up and down and see if you notice any lines across the screen. Its non-existant on dark backgrounds, so really just lighter colours, especially white.

#10 3daysofrain

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 12:09 PM

I called Pioneer this morning and am awaiting a call from them to organise someone to come look at it.
I figure the best way to show it is if i put a 360 game in and move up and down. You can see the vertical lines easily that way, rather than try find a dvd scene.

Do you guys have any advice of what I should say or ask for? As in, i'm a bit of a pushover and don't really want them to say, hey they all do that so just live with it and then go, oh ok then lol.

I wonder if they would replace it or take it away for repair?

#11 heyskip

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 12:49 PM

I called Pioneer this morning and am awaiting a call from them to organise someone to come look at it.
I figure the best way to show it is if i put a 360 game in and move up and down. You can see the vertical lines easily that way, rather than try find a dvd scene.

Do you guys have any advice of what I should say or ask for? As in, i'm a bit of a pushover and don't really want them to say, hey they all do that so just live with it and then go, oh ok then lol.

I wonder if they would replace it or take it away for repair?


I have the same effect but the streaks are horizontal. Alot of people don't notice it at all but once you do, you see it all the time.

I had a tech out to look at it a month or so ago. They originally said it was caused by the source (Sony hdmi dvd player) so I showed him the effect when using IQ2, Xbox360. Even when he used the internal test patterns in the service menu, the effect was visible. I then proceded to show him that the uneveness was visible with the screen off and sunlight reflected off it. My suggestion to him was that this effect looks like the anti reflective coating has been applied unevenly.

He agreed to take it away and run some tests but before that he set up the rental lx-508a and guess what, same effect was visible albeit in slighly different areas. After he saw this he basically said he could take mine away but didn't really know what to do with it. Which is the last thing I want, someone fidling around inside my tv without a clue of what their doing.

I said at this point id keep my tv and check a few other sets to see if this effect is a feature or a common problem. So far i've seen 4 lx-508a's and all of the have the exact same problem.

I've been reading the 9G owners thread at avsforum and they're saying the problem is visible on those as well.

I think the problem is quite wide spread, its just that alot of people don't notice it. The salesman at clive peters that I showed it to said he'd never noticed it till I pointed it out and that he'd spent a fair amount of time viewing that particular set.

A tech is comming out next week to do the firmware upgrade, I might bring this issue up again because its starting to really annoy me. Apart from this problem the set is fantastic.

#12 3daysofrain

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 01:21 PM

Mate, thank GOD someone else says they can see it!Once i've pointed it out to people though, they can definately see what im talking about. I find it worse on 360 FPS games or on slow pans on HD's.
One part of me thinks i'm being picky, coz the picture is fantastic, but now i've seen it, i cant help but look at it and makes me unhappy with the set.

But like you say, I really dont want to get mine taken away, and then replaced with one that does it also. Which by the sounds of it, is pretty likely.
I've got my 300hrs up on run-in and looking at getting it calibrated soon so to swap for another with same issue would be worse.

So yours are horizontal? I dont know which is worse!

#13 heyskip

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 01:45 PM

One part of me thinks i'm being picky, coz the picture is fantastic, but now i've seen it, i cant help but look at it and makes me unhappy with the set.


A $5000 plus RRP set shouldn't have issues like this. I spent the extra cash after wasting my time with Sony Bravia after Sony Bravia all with dark scene uniformity issues (clouding/flashlights) and now I have a more expensive set with light scene uniformity issues. I was going to sell up and go 9G but it seems they're stuck with the same problem.

I've got my 300hrs up on run-in and looking at getting it calibrated soon so to swap for another with same issue would be worse.


Yeah my biggest fear is getting a replacement with dead pixels/cells as my current one is perfect.

So yours are horizontal? I dont know which is worse!


I'd say they're both crap :)

#14 3daysofrain

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 02:00 PM

So what do you think we should do? I myself would rather put up with it then get a different TV altogether, but should we settle with the ones we have, or keep going till we get one that doesnt? "IF" that happens!

#15 heyskip

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 02:24 PM

So what do you think we should do? I myself would rather put up with it then get a different TV altogether, but should we settle with the ones we have, or keep going till we get one that doesnt? "IF" that happens!


Well thats the thing I don't really know what to do. I'm well outside the return to retailer period so i'll have to discuss it with Pioneer and pressure them. What i'd really like is for a field engineer to come and explain this problem to me as the tech seemed to brush it off as normal and basically said I must have super sensitive eyesight :rolleyes:

Tech's coming out on the 25th and i'll raise the concern then. Let me know how you go with your tech visit.

Edited by heyskip, 11 August 2008 - 02:34 PM.


#16 magicRob

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 02:26 PM

As someone who's about to buy a LX508A this isn't good news :S

I would say keep going until you get one, and they replace it with a 5090 and then keep going until they fix it with the Matsushita 5010 panels :)

#17 3daysofrain

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 02:47 PM

As someone who's about to buy a LX508A this isn't good news :S

I would say keep going until you get one, and they replace it with a 5090 and then keep going until they fix it with the Matsushita 5010 panels :)


Haha nice idea! Seriously though, in regards to the panel, its easily the best i've ever laid eyes on and couldnt recommend it enough in that regard, its really just the uniformity of the screen. I'm pretty prone to it coz i've had many issues in the past. I've had CRT's with bad whites, LCD's with shimmering effects etc and i was hoping THIS time, i'd have a perfect panel. Especially from what i've heard.


Heyskip, I don't know what to do either. I've had mine about 1-2months I guess. The thing is, when some people say they don't have it. Are they just NOT seeing it? Where as we know what to look for. Or IS there ones out there that dont' do it. Thats what i'd like to know.

#18 heyskip

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 02:47 PM

There was a guy on these forums by the name of "crumpet" who I saw posted on avsforum about this issue a while back. I'd be interested in hearing from him about what happened to his set.

#19 heyskip

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 03:05 PM

The thing is, when some people say they don't have it. Are they just NOT seeing it? Where as we know what to look for. Or IS there ones out there that dont' do it. Thats what i'd like to know.


Exactly spot on. This is my dilema. I'd like it if people could check they're sets for the problem BUT i wouldn't want to be responsible for pointing out something that could ruin they're viewing pleasure.

#20 3daysofrain

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 03:13 PM

I wonder if it would be possible, for Pio to bring out a new panel, set it up and look for issue, and if no good, take it back, so we still have ours sitting there?

That way there is no real inconvenience to us, as we just keep getting them to bring them over. IF they would even do that.

#21 Stone

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 03:23 PM

Exactly spot on. This is my dilema. I'd like it if people could check they're sets for the problem BUT i wouldn't want to be responsible for pointing out something that could ruin they're viewing pleasure.

That is exactly why i'm not even going to look for it... I'd rather have it and not be able to see it :ninja:

I wonder if it would be possible, for Pio to bring out a new panel, set it up and look for issue, and if no good, take it back, so we still have ours sitting there?

That way there is no real inconvenience to us, as we just keep getting them to bring them over. IF they would even do that.

If you're not happy with the replacement, they won't MAKE you keep it. You can just ask them to set your panel back up.

Edited by Stone, 11 August 2008 - 03:25 PM.


#22 spalmills

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 03:42 PM

I would wait to see what the tech says. Hopefully they can do something about it for you. It certainly wouldnt be an issue that i would put up with on a TV like that. I have a Pioneer also (not the LX) and i have to say that if there is an issue they will try their best to help you out.

Good luck

#23 heyskip

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 04:19 PM

I wonder if it would be possible, for Pio to bring out a new panel, set it up and look for issue, and if no good, take it back, so we still have ours sitting there?

That way there is no real inconvenience to us, as we just keep getting them to bring them over. IF they would even do that.


That would be my ideal solution and is what im going to be pushing for.

#24 3daysofrain

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 10:21 AM

Heyskip, did you ever download the Run-in DVD from Avsforums? It has a pure white signal and makes it dead easy to see the lines. This is what i'll be showing the repairer when he comes.

#25 heyskip

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 10:41 AM

Heyskip, did you ever download the Run-in DVD from Avsforums? It has a pure white signal and makes it dead easy to see the lines. This is what i'll be showing the repairer when he comes.


Yeah I used that dvd for the first 500 hours whenever I wasn't watching the set. I was originally going to stop around the 200hr mark but I was hoping that I might get rid of these lines by using it more.