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#1 Skid_MacMarx

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 06:22 PM

I don't know how much improvement to overall sound quality these discs are suppose to provide
but (call me a sucker) I just ordered the SHM version Of Miles Davis's "Ascenseur Pour L'echafaud" s/track

Quote

SHM-CD

The high quality SHM-CD (Super High Material CD) format features enhanced audio quality through the use of a special polycarbonate plastic. Using a process developed by JVC and Universal Music Japan discovered through the joint companies' research into LCD display manufacturing, SHM-CDs feature improved transparency on the data side of the disc, allowing for more accurate reading of CD data by the CD player laser head. SHM-CD format CDs are fully compatible with standard CD players.
http://www.cdjapan.c...als/shm-cd.html

Official Universal Japan SHM-CD web site
http://www.universal...m-cd/index.html

#2 Psycho!

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 05:09 PM

cheers/ let us know how it goes.  thanks for the link to the site too.

p.s found this little site of titles while googling the tech.

http://www.cdjapan.c...20070928_kanren

Edited by Psycho!, 23 March 2008 - 05:12 PM.


#3 Skid_MacMarx

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 07:39 PM

View PostPsycho!, on Mar 23 2008, 06:09 PM, said:

cheers/ let us know how it goes.  thanks for the link to the site too.

p.s found this little site of titles while googling the tech.

http://www.cdjapan.c...20070928_kanren
Yes a comprehensive list of re- issues for this new technology

I have actually purchased a lot of CDs and SACDs through this crew CDJapan... I have had no troubles with them,, I found their packaging A1 and none of their deliveries have been lost in transit. Their postage prices are competitive.  Also, the exchange rate makes it more favourable importing from Japan than Europe.
They regularly send out 500 yen discount coupons, and there is a frequent buyer discount plan.

#4 Skid_MacMarx

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Posted 30 May 2008 - 07:11 PM

View PostSkid_MacMarx, on Mar 22 2008, 06:22 PM, said:

I don't know how much improvement to overall sound quality these discs are suppose to provide
but (call me a sucker) I just ordered the SHM version Of Miles Davis's "Ascenseur Pour L'echafaud" s/track
Finally got my hands on this :D
http://www.dtvforum....t...ost&id=5102
I must say the original monaural tape must be in great shape.
The album cover states 24-bit Mastering, and I dare say the quality has more to do with this.
http://www.dtvforum....t...ost&id=5103
It would be interesting if all the SHM versions incorporate 24 bit mastering

#5 Dissociative

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 08:28 AM

i cant believe the prices these SHM cd's are fetching on ebay. i saw a few (rolling stones for example) that promoted they were from a DSD remaster, yet they were selling for 3 or 4 times more than the SACD version  :wacko:

i wonder how they stack up against MFSL CD's?

#6 Skid_MacMarx

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 10:00 AM

View PostD.G., on Jun 3 2008, 08:28 AM, said:

i cant believe the prices these SHM cd's are fetching on ebay. i saw a few (rolling stones for example) that promoted they were from a DSD remaster, yet they were selling for 3 or 4 times more than the SACD version  :wacko:

i wonder how they stack up against MFSL CD's?
I haven't checked out ebay yet but I can only say that its probably because they are limited editions.
I don't have any MFSL CDs so I can't make any comparisons.

#7 Dissociative

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 11:13 AM

View Postazure_, on Jun 3 2008, 10:00 AM, said:

I haven't checked out ebay yet but I can only say that its probably because they are limited editions.
I don't have any MFSL CDs so I can't make any comparisons.

people are going crazy for MFSL CD's as well, I reguarly see them fetching up around USD$200+ like THIS one for example, which is Guns and Roses for crying out loud!  :blink:

i'd imagine MFSL and SHM would be similar - down to the remaster as you say.

#8 Shonky*

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:07 PM

I call total BS and that any gains in quality will be from better mastering, mixing etc etc.

If the plastic or whatever isn't clear enough on current CDs, then they are faulty (or the player is faulty)

#9 azure

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 05:04 PM

Warner in Japan to release Led Zeppelin Albums On SHM-CD

Definitive Set — WPCR-13142
Limited Release
Cardboard sleeve reissue box set from Led Zeppelin featuring all ten albums of the "Led Zeppelin 40th Anniversary SHM-CD Cardboard Sleeve Reissue Series" in the high-fidelity SHM-CD format (fully compatible with standard CD players), advanced cardboard sleeve replicas of the original UK E-style album jackets, plus six bonus cardboard sleeves including five alternate jackets for "In Through The Out Door" and one alternate jacket for "Led Zepplin I" utilizing the original ink.

Individual Albums
Led Zeppelin — WPCR-13130
Led Zepellin II — WPCR-13131
Led Zepellin III — WPCR-13132
Led Zeppelin IV — WPCR-13133
Houses Of The Holy — WPCR-13134
Physical Graffiti — WPCR-13135/6
Presence — WPCR-13137
The Song Remains The Same — WPCR-13138/9
In Through The Out Door — WPCR-13140
Coda— WPCR-13141
Limited Release
40th anniversary cardboard sleeve reissues from Led Zeppelin featuring the high quality SHM-CD format (compatible with standard CD players) and cardboard sleeve replica of the original UK LP artwork. . .uses a replica of the original E-style jacket in slightly smaller "Tiny-Jacket" format printed with turquoise blue ink (just like the original UK first press), Red-Maroon label (not the green-orange design of the regular edition Atlantic presses of the time), and replica "Gramophone" obi (subject to change). Audio comes from the 1994 digital remasters.

source: CD Japan

Edited by azure, 27 July 2008 - 05:18 PM.


#10 fillyourheadwithrock

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 05:43 AM

View Postazure, on Jul 27 2008, 03:04 AM, said:

Warner in Japan to release Led Zeppelin Albums On SHM-CD

Definitive Set — WPCR-13142
Limited Release
Cardboard sleeve reissue box set from Led Zeppelin featuring all ten albums of the "Led Zeppelin 40th Anniversary SHM-CD Cardboard Sleeve Reissue Series" in the high-fidelity SHM-CD format (fully compatible with standard CD players), advanced cardboard sleeve replicas of the original UK E-style album jackets, plus six bonus cardboard sleeves including five alternate jackets for "In Through The Out Door" and one alternate jacket for "Led Zepplin I" utilizing the original ink.

Individual Albums
Led Zeppelin — WPCR-13130
Led Zepellin II — WPCR-13131
Led Zepellin III — WPCR-13132
Led Zeppelin IV — WPCR-13133
Houses Of The Holy — WPCR-13134
Physical Graffiti — WPCR-13135/6
Presence — WPCR-13137
The Song Remains The Same — WPCR-13138/9
In Through The Out Door — WPCR-13140
Coda— WPCR-13141
Limited Release
40th anniversary cardboard sleeve reissues from Led Zeppelin featuring the high quality SHM-CD format (compatible with standard CD players) and cardboard sleeve replica of the original UK LP artwork. . .uses a replica of the original E-style jacket in slightly smaller "Tiny-Jacket" format printed with turquoise blue ink (just like the original UK first press), Red-Maroon label (not the green-orange design of the regular edition Atlantic presses of the time), and replica "Gramophone" obi (subject to change). Audio comes from the 1994 digital remasters.

source: CD Japan


I own this box set and it is well worth the money , [also please read my other post below this post , thanks]

Even though the description says that they use the 1994 re-masters for these SHM-CDs  , they actually use the 2003 / 2005 Japanese Paper Sleeve Editions which sounded much better than the 1994 re-masters.

These are not a rip-off and they all sound amazing on any normal CD player.

You also get 4 BONUS tracks on the CODA album [12 songs instead of 8 songs] and 5 different versions of the , IN THROUGH THE OUT DOOR , sleeves.

The SHM-CDs are in the ordinal U.K. style mini sleeves with the plastic coating on them. The discs use the ordinal U.K. release colours. The SWAM SONG logo is used on the last of them from , P.G. , to , IN THROUGH THE OUT DOOR.

These are the best sounding version of these albums that I have ever heard. I have owned all of them.

Edited by fillyourheadwithrock, 20 September 2008 - 08:56 AM.


#11 fillyourheadwithrock

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 06:15 AM

GOOD - DAY , every one.  :D

I own 35 SHM-CDs , including some of , THE WHO , DEEP PURPLE , LED ZEPPELIN , BRYAN ADAMS , GUNS & ROSES , DON HENLEY , STEELY DAN  , ect...

These all sound fantastic.

Here are my tips about buying SHM-CDs. I am sorry if this has been posted before.

1.  DO NOT buy any SHM-CDs that have never been re-mastered at one time before. They will sound better than their ordinal versions , however , they will be at the same volume as the older versions. If you like that quiet sound style then those are for you.

EXAMPLE = THE CREAM OF ERIC CLAPTON , uses the 1989 edit for this SHM-CD. It does sound better , but it is still very quiet.  

2. The better the re-master the better it will sound.

The main difference with SHM-CDs is that this sound format loves , VOCALS , BACKING VOCALS , KEYBOARDS and HORNS.

The 4 SUPERTRAMP SHM-CDs , that I own use the 2003 re-masters for their SHM-CDs and they sound amazing.

So , this means you have the vocals more up front in the mix ,  the horns and keyboards have a lot more power. More balanced power with all of the other instruments.
No instrument and / or vocal over powers the other.

EXAMPLE = With the older LED ZEPPELIN re-masters [1994 / 2003] , I have always found that PLAN'Ts voice was too low in the mix in some of the songs. That has been fixed.

On some of the older re-masters , some songs seemed to be at a different volume than other songs even on the same album. That has also been fixed on these outstanding sounding , LED ZEP / SHM-CDs.

3. SHM-CDs are not any louder but they are super clean and clear. There is even less hiss or no hiss at all.

4. For loudly re-mastered albums like , WHO's NEXT , LIVE AT LEEDS , THE DEFINITIVE COLLECTION , you can listen to them longer in one sitting because some of the harsh edge is gone.  As my wife once said to me ,

"SHM-CDs sound just beautiful"

5. The only negative thing about SHM-CDs is that you can NOT burn / download songs from these discs because you will lose the sound improvements from the special disc itself.

I thought that SHM-CDs was a gimmick at first. Just another rip-off by the record companies to make more money.

However , I took a chance and I bought , BRYAN ADAMS' : SO FAR , SO GOOD [1993 re-master] SHM-CD.

I was hooked. On any fairly good multi-channel stereo this SHM-CD blew my mind. Talk about great separation , echos , vocals and every thing with out using a SACD player. Just a normal CD player.

I hope that some of this helps!

TAKE CARE!  :D

Edited by fillyourheadwithrock, 20 September 2008 - 08:59 AM.


#12 Shonky*

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 11:11 AM

Doesn't sound very believable to me this so called SHM-CD business.

Why can't you rip these CDs without losing quality? All a CD player does is "rip" and convert directly to sound.

In my opinion all the quality improvements are due to the mastering.

#13 HDROCKS

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 05:04 PM

(Super High Material CD).

It could only happen in Japan.
If people wish to pay extra for a Remastered CD instead of the Original then so be it.
As to them sounding better,a blind test with headphones at same volume will soon tell.
As long as people have money someone will dream up a way of obtaining it.


HDrocks:But not with shm.

#14 fillyourheadwithrock

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 06:30 AM

View PostHDROCKS, on Sep 20 2008, 03:04 AM, said:

(Super High Material CD).

It could only happen in Japan.
If people wish to pay extra for a Remastered CD instead of the Original then so be it.
As to them sounding better,a blind test with headphones at same volume will soon tell.
As long as people have money someone will dream up a way of obtaining it.


HDrocks:But not with shm.


You would actually have to hear a SHM-CD to understand. If you don't like re-mastered CDs , then these are not for you.

#15 fillyourheadwithrock

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 06:39 AM

View PostShonky*, on Sep 19 2008, 09:11 PM, said:

Doesn't sound very believable to me this so called SHM-CD business.

Why can't you rip these CDs without losing quality? All a CD player does is "rip" and convert directly to sound.

In my opinion all the quality improvements are due to the mastering.

This is very new technology. For many years people have been focusing on re-mastering technology and things like SACD machines.

Now they have improved the compact disc , itself ,again. The JAPANESE people are pretty smart.

I understand why this may sound like B.S. , but it is not. As I have written , I own many of these and I am very happy with them.

Because it is the disc ITSELF that improves the sound , ripping them to a normal disc
, you wouldn't have the special disc that SHM-CDs use.

You really have to hear one of these to hear how much better it sounds than a normal re-mastered CD.

All that I can tell you is that if you go to the above posts , and link to CD JAPAN and it's LED ZEP , box set site there are 9 out of 10 RAVE REVIEWS [5 out of 5 stars] from people who have bought the LED ZEP box set.

You can then judge for yourself.  :D

Edited by fillyourheadwithrock, 21 September 2008 - 06:48 AM.


#16 DrP

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 08:42 AM

fillyourheadwith..., 16 bit LPCM is 16 bit LPCM no matter what media its stored on.  'ripping' one of these new u-beaut discs would result in an identical copy of what's on the disc.  There would be no difference in playback.

Putting aside any improvements from the audio 'remastering'* the only thing that this 'new' format achieves is more money in the pocket of the sales chain that gets it into your hot little hands.  If a CD player can't read any given disc that is properly manufactured then its time to throw it out and buy a new one, not purchase more expensive CDs because they have super clear, new improved, ultra expensive polycarbonate substrates.

Once again, buy beware, a fool and his money are soon parted, etc, etc.

*the remastering is the only contributor to 'better' audio from these discs

Edited by DrP, 21 September 2008 - 08:47 AM.


#17 dJOS

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 09:54 AM

View PostDrP, on Sep 21 2008, 08:12 AM, said:

fillyourheadwith..., 16 bit LPCM is 16 bit LPCM no matter what media its stored on.  'ripping' one of these new u-beaut discs would result in an identical copy of what's on the disc.  There would be no difference in playback.

Putting aside any improvements from the audio 'remastering'* the only thing that this 'new' format achieves is more money in the pocket of the sales chain that gets it into your hot little hands.  If a CD player can't read any given disc that is properly manufactured then its time to throw it out and buy a new one, not purchase more expensive CDs because they have super clear, new improved, ultra expensive polycarbonate substrates.

Once again, buy beware, a fool and his money are soon parted, etc, etc.

*the remastering is the only contributor to 'better' audio from these discs

Well said, t'was exactly what i was thinking!

SHM-CD = Snake Oil

The Remastering process is delivering the results, not the physical media! I have some Hybrid SACD's and the the CD layer still sounds incredible, why, the remastering process!

#18 fillyourheadwithrock

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 10:19 AM

View PostDrP, on Sep 20 2008, 06:42 PM, said:

fillyourheadwith..., 16 bit LPCM is 16 bit LPCM no matter what media its stored on.  'ripping' one of these new u-beaut discs would result in an identical copy of what's on the disc.  There would be no difference in playback.

Putting aside any improvements from the audio 'remastering'* the only thing that this 'new' format achieves is more money in the pocket of the sales chain that gets it into your hot little hands.  If a CD player can't read any given disc that is properly manufactured then its time to throw it out and buy a new one, not purchase more expensive CDs because they have super clear, new improved, ultra expensive polycarbonate substrates.

Once again, buy beware, a fool and his money are soon parted, etc, etc.

*the remastering is the only contributor to 'better' audio from these discs

What ever you say.  It would be nice to talk to some one has actually has heard these LED ZEP SHM-CDs.

Most smart people realize that you have to listen to something before you can judge it. TRUE?  I don't think that you can review a movie WITH OUT even seeing it?

Sound technology does improve over time. Is this not also true?

I am no fool and or a liar. I was just trying to answer this thread and help other people out.

I have actually heard these and I have compared then to their older versions. Have you?

Are all of the those 9 out of 10 / 5 out of 5 star reviews at CD JAPAN for the LED ZEP box set , wrong?  Those people put down almost $300 for their box sets.

As I did.

Sorry , I was just trying to help other people decide about this. I am 47 years old and I have been buying re-mastered CDs for years.

Why would I come to this site and tell people some thing that I didn't believe to be true?

I feel that my money was very well spent.  :D

I don't buy CDs lightly. I don't like getting ripped-off either.

TAKE CARE :D

#19 fillyourheadwithrock

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 10:25 AM

View PostdjOS, on Sep 20 2008, 07:54 PM, said:

Well said, t'was exactly what i was thinking!

SHM-CD = Snake Oil

The Remastering process is delivering the results, not the physical media! I have some Hybrid SACD's and the the CD layer still sounds incredible, why, the remastering process!


That is the old school technology. Just like at one time SACD machines were once the new technology. SHM-CDs are the new technology and NOT = snake oil.

You actually have to hear SHM-CDs that have been well re-mastered before you hear the big difference in sound.  :D


All I know is that the 35+ SHM-CDs that I own are the best versions of those albums that I have ever heard on any normal CD player.

I believe what my own ears tell me , AFTER HEARING IT , for myself.

TAKE CARE :D

Edited by fillyourheadwithrock, 21 September 2008 - 10:29 AM.


#20 Shonky*

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 10:54 AM

If you truly believe that fillyourheadwithrock (kind of ironic your name there :) ) then that is fine.

However I bet I could take one of these magical SHM-CDs and make a copy and you would not be able to tell the difference between the two.

#21 DrP

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 11:34 AM

Its a bit of a laugh really (not trying to be nasty to fillyourhead).  The audio coding method on the 'new u-beaut' CD is exactly the same as on regular CDs, 16 bit LPCM.  Therefore the playback (defects, both player and disc, aside) from either disk must be the same.  The only potential difference would be that the audio on fillyourhead's examples has been 'remastered', ie filddled with which makes it sound different from the 'standard' CD release.  But that doesn't require a special super clear substrate to be used in the CD manufacture.  All other claims of superiority really is snake oil.

If one really wants a measurable step up in audio quailty that can be attributed to the mechanical properties of the disc, SACD is the way to go.

#22 dJOS

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 11:40 AM

View PostShonky*, on Sep 21 2008, 10:24 AM, said:

However I bet I could take one of these magical SHM-CDs and make a copy and you would not be able to tell the difference between the two.

I'd put money on you being correct mate!

#23 Music in Music out

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 09:12 PM

There seems to be a great deal of confusion about the SHM-CDs and I might just throw my views into the mix.  More transparent plastic means less error correction means (perhaps) more 'accurate' replay - ask yourself how a scratched and fingerprinted CD sounds (if it is playable without skipping) - versus your well kept and clinically clean CDs.  Accuracy is important (otherwise CD players would come without servos or error correction).

SHM-CDs appear to sound 'cleaner' - I have Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road album in the following formats - first release CD, remastered CD (several versions), SACD, DVD-A, SHM-CD and Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs Ultra Disc CD - I would rank them (in personal preference) from first to last  - as DVD-A, SACD, MOFI Ultra Disc,  SHM-CD, remastered CD and first release CD  ( I also have a LP version which I love but the MOFI CD beats it for similar warmth without the clicks and pops).  

Comparing a remastered CD with a SHM-CD from the same remastering - SHM-CD appears marginally cleaner on my (half way decent Hi-Fi) - its a matter of degrees rather than astonishing but there is clearly a 'difference' (for better or worse) - is the SHM-CD worth the money - NOT ON YOUR NELLY - but if you are a collector the price is a secondary issue.  

I will not be buying all of the EJ SHM-CDs nor would I rush out to buy SHM-CDs of albums I already owned - unless I did not have the most recent remastered version and I was looking to update - but I would not buy a SHM-CD at the currrent high price!  Hope this helps inform.

#24 azure

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 05:16 PM

I was going to pick up the 24 bit Remastered Jarrett SHM-CDs next month but now they are virtually double the price ...I don't know :unsure:
Warner Japan will be releasing four classic Keith Jarrett albums (Life Between The Exit Signs, Mourning Of A Star, El Juicio & Birth) on November 26th;
http://www.wmg.jp/wm...#keithjarrett01

Edited by azure, 10 October 2008 - 05:18 PM.


#25 dJOS

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 09:17 PM

View Postazure, on Oct 10 2008, 05:46 PM, said:

I was going to pick up the 24 bit Remastered Jarrett SHM-CDs next month but now they are virtually double the price ...I don't know :unsure:
Warner Japan will be releasing four classic Keith Jarrett albums (Life Between The Exit Signs, Mourning Of A Star, El Juicio & Birth) on November 26th;
http://www.wmg.jp/wm...#keithjarrett01

Mate, the masters may be 24bit but the SHM-CD's are still 16bit & 44khz - buy yourself a good SACD player and enjoy the tangible benefits of up to 192khz recordings actually being present on the discs!