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**warning** Dts-hdma Bitstreamed Can Cause Speaker Damage!


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#51 Kazz

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 08:56 AM

hope they get to the bottom of it. any other comments you've seen kazz in relation to this disc ?


No haven't heard of anyone else with this problem on this disc.

#52 bbar

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 09:40 AM

No haven't heard of anyone else with this problem on this disc.



This is one of the disks quoted as having the problem on the AVSforum.

Bryan

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 11:52 AM

post from ronny k at DTS responding to some of the "misinformation" being spread around...


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Originally Posted by RJRSW View Post
"DTS Global Product manager Ronny Katz confirms that the problem is caused by a faulty DTS Decoder Chip (IC) in the Receivers of the companies of Onkyo and Yamaha. Recievers from Denon, Pioneer and Sony, which uses a different DTS Decoder Chip are unaffected and has no difficulties bit-streaming the DTS-HD MA tracks from the titles concerned. DTS has a made a fix/update to their Encoding software which will address the problem by taking the faulty DTS Decoder Chip into consideration, thus avoiding the issue on future Blu-Ray releases. It is however unknown at this time, if the Recievers with the faulty DTS Decoder chips can be fixed to work with the current DTS-MA discs by firmware update"


Dear AVS forum readers-

My name is Ronny Katz. Ive recently been alerted to this thread and want to try and help, especially given how many inaccurate statements Ive skimmed through. There have been statements on this forum using my name with quotation marks, without a source reference other than a similar AV forum in Germany. This seems unjust and careless.

My goal here is to dispel some misinformation and inaccuracies and help clarify where I can. Unfortunately, I do not have the bandwidth to read and track information/mis-information on all forums so I will in advance apologize to you all if you do not see a response to your questions. Additionally, DTS has a policy of not announcing products, updates, etc on behalf of CE manufactures, so I will do my best.

For starters I want to point out the paragraph above was not provided by me, nor are these statement I would have made, especially out of respect to our CE customers. While its a cool title, I am not a Global Product Manager. Im the Sr. Manager of Professional Audio at DTS, and I am responsible for our Encoding and Quality control products for optical media, including Blu-ray Disc (if youre interested in learning more: dts.com/pro-audio/).

Second, DTS does not make any ICs, as the paragraph above suggests. We also do not make AV Receivers. We license our technology to both types of manufacturers and provide support.

Third, the DTS Encoding software creates DTS audio streams that are 100% valid. Most important, DTS has not released an update to fix/update encoders for any pop anomaly. As the Encoder is not broken or flawed, we have not fixed what is not broken.

(Our most recent encoder product launches were V1.5 and V1.51, which launched in September and December of 2007, respectively: V1.5 to enable Secondary Audio with volume automation for Blu-ray Disc and V1.51 to expand on that feature set and enable a Dialog Enhanced mode for Secondary Audio.)

The DTS-HD MA streams on the Blu-ray Discs you have listed throughout this thread are perfectly valid. If you are experiencing a pop anomaly, please contact your AVR manufacturer and they will be able to further assist you.

Last but not least, Im a home theater fanatic like most of you here. I have all my 14 guage speaker cables running in-wall, my L-C-R (Focal) speakers are soffit mounted, there are conduits running all the cables behind the TV wall and I tilted walls to minimize parallel room reflections. I have a full 1080P setup that I truly enjoy and can relate with all of you here. I share the same end goal - for all of us to enjoy our setups. I assure you that DTS is monitoring all reported issues and take steps to work closely with the licensees when appropriate.

Thanks for reading and warm regards to all,

r.k.


his post from jsmiddleton is encouraging too for those of us either owners of or considering the denon avp av pre-pro.

Today, 07:47 PM #592 | Link
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My AVP was fine. Ice Age 1 is fine. Xmen Last Stand was good to go. Die Hard 2 was ok for me as well.

Down side of such a list is that it appears to depend on pressing date/software suite used. So an earlier copy may display the sound.
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#54 MACCA350

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 11:55 AM

Ronny Katz, DTS Sr. Manager of Professional Audio:


"DTS Global Product manager Ronny Katz confirms that the problem is caused by a faulty DTS Decoder Chip (IC) in the Receivers of the companies of Onkyo and Yamaha. Recievers from Denon, Pioneer and Sony, which uses a different DTS Decoder Chip are unaffected and has no difficulties bit-streaming the DTS-HD MA tracks from the titles concerned. DTS has a made a fix/update to their Encoding software which will address the problem by taking the faulty DTS Decoder Chip into consideration, thus avoiding the issue on future Blu-Ray releases. It is however unknown at this time, if the Recievers with the faulty DTS Decoder chips can be fixed to work with the current DTS-MA discs by firmware update"


Dear AVS forum readers-

My name is Ronny Katz. I€™ve recently been alerted to this thread and want to try and help, especially given how many inaccurate statements I€™ve skimmed through. There have been statements on this forum using my name with quotation marks, without a source reference other than a similar AV forum in Germany. This seems unjust and careless.

My goal here is to dispel some misinformation and inaccuracies and help clarify where I can. Unfortunately, I do not have the bandwidth to read and track information/mis-information on all forums €“ so I will in advance apologize to you all if you do not see a response to your questions. Additionally, DTS has a policy of not announcing products, updates, etc on behalf of CE manufactures, so I will do my best.

For starters I want to point out the paragraph above was not provided by me, nor are these statement I would have made, especially out of respect to our CE customers. While it€™s a cool title, I am not a Global Product Manager. I€™m the Sr. Manager of Professional Audio at DTS, and I am responsible for our Encoding and Quality control products for optical media, including Blu-ray Disc (if you€™re interested in learning more: dts.com/pro-audio/).

Second, DTS does not make any ICs, as the paragraph above suggests. We also do not make AV Receivers. We license our technology to both types of manufacturers and provide support.

Third, the DTS Encoding software creates DTS audio streams that are 100% valid. Most important, DTS has not released an update to fix/update encoders for any €œpop€ anomaly. As the Encoder is not broken or flawed, we have not fixed what is not broken.

(Our most recent encoder product launches were V1.5 and V1.51, which launched in September and December of 2007, respectively: V1.5 to enable Secondary Audio with volume automation for Blu-ray Disc and V1.51 to expand on that feature set and enable a Dialog Enhanced mode for Secondary Audio.)

The DTS-HD MA streams on the Blu-ray Discs you have listed throughout this thread are perfectly valid. If you are experiencing a €œpop€ anomaly, please contact your AVR manufacturer and they will be able to further assist you.

Last but not least, I€™m a home theater fanatic like most of you here. I have all my 14 guage speaker cables running in-wall, my L-C-R (Focal) speakers are soffit mounted, there are conduits running all the cables behind the TV wall and I tilted walls to minimize parallel room reflections. I have a full 1080P setup that I truly enjoy and can relate with all of you here. I share the same end goal - for all of us to enjoy our setups. I assure you that DTS is monitoring all reported issues and take steps to work closely with the licensees when appropriate.

Thanks for reading and warm regards to all,

r.k.



ronny,
What I would like, if you can, is suggestions on how we can get some momentum to fix this thing beyond contacting the makers of our receivers. Is there anything else we can do?

Edit: Was also wondering if you have any speculation about what is going on to make this gun shot noise?

Edit: Sorry, watching the Suns vs Pistons at same time I'm watching my laptop. I would like to know if the essence of the statement is true despite the details of your position at DTS. Is it the case there are problematic IC chips in Onkyo/Yamaha units?


I believe the momentum is there and I feel encouraged that people are getting responses from AVR manufacturers.

Yes - of course we know exactly what's going, which is why I can say with certainty that the DTS-HD MA stream is fine. However, I have no intention of going into further detail (or finger pointing) and encourage you to seek assistance from the specific AVR manufacturer.

I have a family birthday so I'm signing off. Then I'm gonna pray the Lakers get back at the Warriors for the heartbreak loss of last night.

Good eve to all,

r.k.


cheers

Edited by MACCA350, 25 March 2008 - 11:59 AM.


#55 Kazz

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 01:02 PM

I have just rung Yamaha (very rude person there) who gave me a number of a service centre to call.

So I spoke to the guy there and he was aware of the problem and said there is a firmware update but it was not something that could be done on the spot, he did however say he could do a 24hr turnaround so in 3 weeks when I have to dismantle everything as the new carpet will be going in, I'll take it in.

#56 bbar

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 01:36 PM

I have just rung Yamaha (very rude person there) who gave me a number of a service centre to call.

So I spoke to the guy there and he was aware of the problem and said there is a firmware update but it was not something that could be done on the spot, he did however say he could do a 24hr turnaround so in 3 weeks when I have to dismantle everything as the new carpet will be going in, I'll take it in.



Well my RX-V1800 is in the support centre now for the firmware upgrade. They also expect 24hr -36hr turnaround. Unfortunately they cannot test as they do not have a Blu-ray player;nor a HD-DVD player. They are willing for me to bring in my player and they will test with their speakers.

I have a HD-DVD player (not Blu-ray player) but do not have the Eagles disk so cannot bring to test. If someone will lend me their copy of the Eagles I will bring my XE1 to confirm whether the problem is fixed or not and then return the HD-DVD.

Easiest if someone in the SE subburbs of Melbourne as I am in Mount Martha and can pick up and drop off easily as the service Centre is in Hallam. Also happy to pay for mailing one way if someone wants to mail me their copy if that is easier.

If not then happy to wait until others have the firmware done to see if fixed.

Regards,

Bryan

#57 macca78

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 03:11 PM

Although i havent had the problem as yet i plan on getting a bd30 to go with my onkyo 605 so was a bit concerned.
So, i rang amber tech who i believe supply onkyo products over here. the guy i spoke to hadnt heard of the problem (he said!) and asked me to send links to the forums...will post his reply when i get it...

#58 Spero D.

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 05:46 PM

My understanding from the AVS thread is that Denon AVRs are not affected. Its primiarly a problem with Yamaha and Okyno/Intergra - apparently they source components from a different place than Denon.


That is my understanding as well. After what Ronnie has posted on AVS, it seems DTS is saying there are no problems on their end (with encoding or Blu-Ray disc replication) and it is a Receiver problem. It wouldn't suprise me that there are problems with the particular chips used in the Onkyo, and Yamaha.

I saw someone post above that an Denon 3808 was effected but I would like to know where that info came from as I don't see anyone on AVS in the 20 odd pahge thread that has a Denon with this issue.

It does seem that Yamaha have a firmware fix available for this issue and hopefully Onkyo provide a suitable solution asap.

It does make you wonder that if it is indeed a problem with the particular chip used on these units how DTS didn't pick up the issue with their testing when they certify the CE products to display the DTS logo, or the CE manufactures like Yamaha and Onkyo pick up this issue.

Edited by Spero D., 25 March 2008 - 05:49 PM.


#59 MACCA350

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 06:21 PM

I saw someone post above that an Denon 3808 was effected but I would like to know where that info came from as I don't see anyone on AVS in the 20 odd pahge thread that has a Denon with this issue.

I mentioned it here:

Found a report of someone having dropouts with TrueHD while bitstreaming. Sounds like a similar problem as the DTS-HDMA except that when there is a break in the TrueHD signal there seems to be a dropout and not a spike.

Turned out to be a few people with the same issue

cheers

Edited by MACCA350, 25 March 2008 - 06:21 PM.


#60 Spero D.

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 09:06 PM

I mentioned it here:
Turned out to be a few people with the same issue

cheers


That is a by product of the new Panasonic BD30 1.6 firmware. An entirely different issue.

#61 Rocean

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 10:47 PM

damn, i got my 1800 yamaha like 2 weeks back, anyone reckon how do i check if its on the new firmware?

i don't have a BD player yet, so it shouldn't affect me as of now if i don't have the latest firmware right?

when did this firmware come out any idea?

thanks.

#62 cwt

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 12:41 AM

Its interesting that onkyo and yamaha use the TI aureous decoder and the denon I believe silicon image ?

Other brands that use the texas instruments aureus chip include NAD and possibly Marantz

''TI was the first audio DSP vendor to provide an approved Dolby TrueHD implementation for AVRs and is now again at the forefront of the industry with the first implementation with DTS-HD," said Masao Kimura, general manager, Marantz Brand Company, D&M Holdings Inc.''

http://edageek.com/2...7xx-dts-hd-dsp/

These brands are OK it seems ?

#63 monkeychow

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 02:30 AM

The only thing that I don't understand is why, given its a receiver issue, it only happens on some DTS-MA titles and not every DTS-MA title.

#64 Corza13

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 09:32 AM

No haven't heard of anyone else with this problem on this disc.

Hi All,

I have this problem with the Eagles HD DVD, XE-1 and Yam 1800 on track 5. I keep having to remember to skip that track

#65 Corza13

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 08:51 PM

after a few enquiries today, I will be dropping my 1800 in to a service center next week to get the firmware updated.

#66 bbar

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 07:42 AM

after a few enquiries today, I will be dropping my 1800 in to a service center next week to get the firmware updated.



Looks like you may be the first who can test after the fix. Can you please post and let us know if it does in fact fix the issue.

Thanks,

Bryan

#67 Kazz

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 10:45 AM

I have dropped my 3800 into the service centre this morning so should have it back tomorrow and then I can see if the firmware update worked or not.

#68 MACCA350

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 12:19 PM

Here's some Firmware updates for the Yamaha's, they're said to be the ones that fixes the problem.

RXV1800 (US Site)

RXV3800 (German Site)

EDIT: Caution, this firmware is posted on a US and German dealer only access sites and as such would be for the US RXV1800 and German RXV3800 version. I do not know if their firmware is region specific or not, or whether the receivers will refuse to update with an inappropriate version...............as such you should use at your own risk!

cheers

Edited by MACCA350, 27 March 2008 - 11:51 PM.


#69 50MXE20

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 12:24 PM

Here is a Firmware update for the Yamaha RXV1800, it's said to be the one that fixes the problem.

http://www.avsforum....;postcount=3440

cheers

Is there one for the 3800?

#70 MACCA350

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 12:38 PM

Is there one for the 3800?

Don't know, you need dealer access to browse the site. I've asked, so well see if he supplies a direct link for the 3800

cheers

#71 50MXE20

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 12:52 PM

Don't know, you need dealer access to browse the site. I've asked, so well see if he supplies a direct link for the 3800

cheers

Thanks. Guy I work with has just bought a 3800 so would be useful know.

#72 monkeychow

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 12:56 PM

I have dropped my 3800 into the service centre this morning so should have it back tomorrow and then I can see if the firmware update worked or not.


Its good that yamaha here are doing something about it. Apparently in the usa they are saying "What problem?" ;)

Here's to hoping your receiver comes back 100% fixed!!! I was going to take mine today but can't get there till next week now...but i want a fix bad as now i'm nervous whenever I play a fox title!

#73 MACCA350

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 01:25 PM

I've just edited this post:

Here's some Firmware updates for the Yamaha's, they're said to be the one that fixes the problem.

RXV1800 (US Site)

RXV3800 (German Site)

EDIT: Caution, this firmware is posted on a US and German dealer only access sites and as such would be for the US RXV1800 and German RXV3800 version. I do not know if their firmware is region specific or not, or whether the receivers will refuse to update with an inappropriate version...............as such you should use at your own risk!

cheers


Edited by MACCA350, 27 March 2008 - 11:52 PM.


#74 SimonNo10

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 07:41 PM

Hey guys. I've posted on this thread regarding the Onyko receivers with replies from the service contact in bold:

http://www.dtvforum....p...0&start=720

Looks like Onyko owners will have to deliver their units to their closest service agent to have the new firmware put on. I have asked what the 1.08 (newest) firmware actually does and I'm waiting for a reply. My unit currently has firmware 1.03.

Hope this helps.

Edited by SimonNo10, 27 March 2008 - 07:42 PM.


#75 yorac

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 07:57 PM

Wish all you guys luck with this and can once again confirm no issue with my Marantz 7002, btw I am close to Hallam if I can help any one with a pick up/drop off issue with there Yammy's