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Masthead Amplifier Survey


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#51 alanh

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 08:43 PM

All,
I was asking Dave because the Hills Website in not very descriptive and is very old. I am aware that this amplifier is designed for band 1. I would like amplifiers like this to disappear from the market as it will be of no use after then end of 2013. I want to find out it there is other models capable of no amplification of bands 1 & 2.

There are only 7,722 people(2006 census) in area where there is no digital transmitter for programs on analog programs on channels 0 - 2.
The sites are;
Gordonvale Qld TNQ2 Switchoff the end of 2011
Mt Garnet Qld ABNQ2 Switchoff the end of 2011
Murrurundi NSW NBN1 Switchoff the end of 2012
Walcha NEN1 Switchoff the end of 2012


AlanH

#52 mtv

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:31 PM

no as it amplifies band 1.

I asked hills to supply something better than a Kingray MDA20H from a noise and band perspective five years ago but haven't seen one yet. until you can do that I'll stick with the kingray and Johansens and ikusi's (different amps for different jobs)



Same here.

Still needing band 3-4 and UHF with low noise.

First manufacturer to make them available gets my business.

#53 HillsTas

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 07:04 AM

I am guessing here but I reckon Hills will probably drop the Band 1 soon, I will make enquiries and let you know.

Cheers

Dave

#54 HillsTas

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 02:48 PM

Well I have spoken to manufacturing (we still make our mastheads in SA!!!) and they agree it is time to remove Band 1 from the Q-AMP and LNDA, so manufacturing is going to start the re-design process and I will advise when release date approaches.

By the way, Hills will always try and provide what you guys, the installers, want and this forum is a great way to let us know what you DO want, so keep up the "constructive criticism"!!

Cheers Guys

Dave

#55 alanh

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 03:25 PM

Good on you Dave

Could you also find out whether they are ensuring that the bandwidth of the UHF sections are 519 - 820 MHz. This is also the frequency range used for DTV in New Zealand.

ACMA is now making the frequency range 470 - 519 MHz for many more two way radio users.

The DBCDE has also decided that they will sell 694 to 820 MHz to the mobile phone/WiFi industry. This will cause channel changes to move DTV to channels below RF channel 52. Mobile phone/WiFi in this band will be allowed to transmit from 2014. So the UHF sections of antennas and amplifiers should then have the frequency range 519 - 694 MHz.

Thanks,

AlanH

#56 HillsTas

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 07:01 AM

Alan,

I have made the head of manufacturing aware of this forum, so anything you (or anyone else) writes, he will read.

Cheers

Dave

#57 alanh

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 10:51 AM

Dave,
Thanks,

Hills exports to New Zealand so those from there might also be interested in these very new links

All New Zealand digital transmitters are in the range 518 806 MHz.

They are expecting to complete their analog switchoff at the same time as us , the end of 2013. Already 70% of viewers are already watching digital.

http://www.rsm.govt....ctrum-decisions

Both NZ and Australia will restack their channel allocations to produce a digital dividend for frequencies above 694 MHz. The new use for 694 820 MHz will be mobile phones/Wifi

http://www.dbcde.gov...igital_dividend

Please reduce the bandwidth of your wideband amplifiers to 174 230, 518 820 MHz for now and after 2013, 174 230, 518 694 MHz.
A masthead amplifier for radio should be considered for 47 88 DRM+, 88 108 for FM, and 174 230 MHz DAB+. DRM+ if selected next year by DBCDE will be used in regional areas and DAB+ is used in large population areas.


AlanH

#58 Biggs

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 11:18 PM

Andrew,
I have not been asking for single channel amplification because the only customers will be TV station off air monitoring. For the rest of us we want 5 channels simultaneously.

What I had in mind is the following band pass filters
Band 3 174 - 230 MHz (chAU 6 - 12) (chEU 5 - 12)
Band 4 518 - 590 MHz (chAU 27 - 36) (chEU 27 - 35)
Band 4+ 518 - 680 MHz (chAU 27 - 49) (chEU 27 - 45)
Band 5 590 - 820 MHz (chAU 36 - 69) (chEU 35 - 59)

chAU is Australian channel numbers
chEU is European channel numbers.

Remember that all state capital city main transmitters are all band 3 & 4 only.

AlanH


Alan, I've been using this series with success -exactly what you asked for

http://www.ftemaxima...s...rie=110&j=1

#59 alanh

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 11:34 PM

Biggs,
The KMC304 only allows you to remove frequencies below 174 MHz. Good on you.

I like the fact you can restrict the amplification in the UHF to band 4 and band 5

They make no statements about frequency ranges of these filters. It is fair to assume that they are using European channels
So you would expect that their band 4 is 470 - 598 MHz. So I would avoid this amplifier in industrial areas and major roads. In addition if there is a UHF CB operator next door.

European Band 5 contains 820 - 862 MHz which is used here for mobile phones. This may change in the future when the digital dividend is auctioned in Europe. 709 - 862 MHz (Eu channels 57 - 64) will be lost to TV. However in Australia we will sell 694 - 820 MHz as our digital dividend in for use after 2013.

AlanH

#60 beeblebrox

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 09:30 AM

the KMC304 has a noise figure of 3-4dB as well, where the mda series is <1.6dB

#61 M'bozo

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 11:09 AM

FB3

FB4

FB5


(EDIT: I noticed a comment about Australia in the FTE catalogue, that seemed to be referring to UHF output levels, but couldn't see how it related to our frequency bands here.)

Edited by M'bozo, 13 November 2010 - 03:59 PM.


#62 Biggs

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 02:56 PM

Allan they have a whole series of configurable kits - MBozo posted the links, these same filters I can take an put in launch amps, mastheads whatever model they have. It's a handy idea, when the need arises. The Frequencies are cut for us. I'm posting euro links -However they've been configured here for us in OZ.

Beetle - They pump out at 114db. And usually I'm only using them in interference areas. I'm not worried about a little noise. I don't think your MDA can do that? It's practically a launch amp.

If I'm worried about a bit of noise - I use these guys or mainly the M1000 UHF- if I'm pulling signal out of the noise floor .

http://www.ftemaxima...s...serie=26&j=

In general all day use, I carry the LG series around http://www.ftemaxima...s...erie=100&j=

If I need a little bit more gain I plug a power stage to the bottom of the masthead for an extra 10db

http://www.ftemaxima...s...erie=118&j=

It's a great system, you don't need to carry 2 types of amps with you. Paying for 32db when you don't need it. Always use the same amp, add the gain only as needed. For the basic jobs I just use a power stage on the bottom of the antenna balun. No fuss. All done.


Modern technology for me -I'm yet to see Kingray, Hills, or Matchys come up with anything good in the last 5 years except shielding. The europeans are leading the way my friends. :-)

Edited by Biggs, 13 November 2010 - 03:13 PM.


#63 alanh

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 03:39 PM

Biggs,
I reviewed their whole catalogue last night. There is a list of frequencies in the back which does not include ours and I found some frequency ranges elswhere which were European channels. We are unique in channel allocations. Not only in the fact that we are the only country which uses 7 MHz wide UHF channels and the use of 470 - 519 MHz for non-TV use.

FB3 is a band 3 filter which you will see we are currently using the same frequency range.
FB4 according to the specs on the site starts at 470 MHz which is the European channel 21. So it is not tuned for us. We need 519 MHz, which is what Kingray do.
FB5 (Marc's link is to FB3) goes to 862 and not 820 MHz so this filter is not for us either. We need 820 MHz but after 2013, 694 MHz. Kingray is currently cutting of at 820 MHz.

The UHF frequency range used by us is the same in NZ except that their channels are 8 MHz wide.

I have not posted any side by side comparisons of performances such as noise figures.

AlanH

#64 Biggs

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 10:06 AM

Alan, I just checked which models Ive been using

http://www.ftemaxima...s...erie=103&j=

http://www.ftemaxima...s...erie=103&j=

http://www.ftemaxima...s...erie=103&j=

Maybe you missed these. All customised to suit

#65 alanh

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:40 PM

Biggs,
I did see these, however they were not in your link.

Warning the channel numbers they refer to are not our channel numbers and as the channel number rises the errors increase for example the European channel 64 is 854 - 862 MHz where as ours is 778 - 785 MHz. So for our channel 64 we would have to specify Eu channel channels 55 -56 as our channel straddles both of these channels.

For our present UHF bands the specified models would become;
Band 4 Model 0300216-27-35
Band 4+ Model 0300216-27-45
Band 5 Model 0300216-35-59.

After the digital dividend restack in 2014, this may well become
UHF Low Model 0300216-27-38
UHF High Model 0300216-39-45

Obviously the narrower the filter the better the error rates become, however the filter width must match the transmission frequencies. Some of our single UHF channels will require a filter which covers two European channels because the lowest frequency of our channel can be 3.5 MHz above or below the lower European channel frequency. This is because a European channel is 8 MHz wide and ours are 7 MHz.

AlanH

#66 Biggs

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 04:47 PM

This is because a European channel is 8 MHz wide and ours are 7 MHz.

AlanH


See above Alan- "customized to suit" - OZ

No warning needed, the distributor here has them tuned for your constant reminder of our channel plan. ;-) I believe Italy uses 7Mhz bandwidth VHF.

Don't be to scared. :-) They werk! ;-)

#67 alanh

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 11:24 PM

Biggs,
All Band 3 TV transmissions in Europe are 7 MHz and all their UHF transmissions are 8 MHz. New Zealand DTV only uses 8 MHz wide channels EU ch 25 - 34, 38 - 62 (502 - 582, 606 - 806 MHz).
After the digital dividend it will reduce its TV broadcasting to Eu Ch 25 - 48 (502 - 694 MHz)

AlanH