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MAC MINI TO CRUSH ALL PVR'S


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#1 Normandy

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 07:53 AM

This article found today at think secret! http://www.thinksecr...11macmini2.html

Apple's Mac mini will be reborn as the digital hub centerpiece it was originally conceived to be, Think Secret sources have disclosed. The new Mac mini project, code-named Kaleidoscope, will feature an Intel processor and include both Front Row 2.0 and TiVo-like DVR functionality.

While the specific model and speed of the Intel processor in the new Mac mini is unknown, sources are confident the system will be ready for roll-out at Macworld Expo San Francisco, in line with other reports Think Secret has received that Intel-based Macs will be ready some six months sooner than originally expected.

The new Mac mini is also said to sport a built-in iPod dock, a feature that was scrapped from the Mac mini Apple first introduced one year ago. Other hardware specifics are unknown, such as whether the Mac mini will feature video recording out of the box or whether an add-on will be offered for those looking to employ the Mac mini not as a second computer but as their living room command center.

It is similarly unknown whether Apple will scrap the 2.5-inch hard drive currently featured in the Mac mini in favor a standard 3.5-inch hard drive, both to boost storage capacity that heavy media users demand and to trim costs; such a move would undoubtedly result in a larger Mac mini.

Specifics surrounding Front Row 2.0 and Apple's DVR application are limited at this point, although sources with knowledge of the project have dubbed the latter a "TiVo-killer." The moniker might not be without some bias, however, as sources report that talks of an Apple-TiVo deal recently fizzled, prompting TiVo to independently announce this month that it will soon offer customers the ability to copy stored content to a video iPod.

While Apple surprised watchers when the company delivered Front Row alongside updated iMac G5s recently, Apple's media center intentions have become startlingly clear in the past year since Apple first delivered the Mac mini and customers first started connecting the system to home theaters and installing it in automobiles. Sources have hinted that additional media announcements will further propel Apple's strategy, and with the hardware, software, and iPod sales behind it, Apple now seems poised to firmly plant its footprint in living rooms.

.... time to sell the toppy! :blink: .. AS it will be around the 799 mark! wooo hoo!

#2 trax

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 08:20 AM

We should wait till we see what software they put in this device... as with the MCE its all in the software...
ie could be full of propriety DRM limiting stuff and if apple has anything to do with it they will try and lock it down good a tight.. meaning you get what they provide and tuff if you want more function..

I'm guessing it will be a DVR for "mums and dads" but hey they could install MythTV and surprise us all!

#3 DigitalObserver

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 08:49 AM

Could this be the answer to the "tuner" part of the equation?

Note, from elgato websiite
October 18, 2005
Freddie Geier to head up Apple Computer Germany
Elgato Systems today announced that Freddie Geier has been appointed Managing Director of Apple Computer's German subsidiary and will be leaving Elgato at the end of October 2005.

Have you read the specs (quoted from Streetwise site) for the:

Elgato EyeTV 410 FireWire DVB-T Digital Terrestial TV Tuner

EyeTV 410 Digital Video Recorder for digital terrestrial television (DVB-T) lets you watch, record, edit, and archive TV on your Mac. EyeTV is TV your way. Pause live television; rewind; fast forward - all in perfect digital quality.

*The EyeTV 410 supports both Standard Definition and High Defintion broadcasts up to 1080i.

Watch TV on your Mac – your way
EyeTV’s advanced portable digital terrestrial TV tuner lets you watch live TV directly on your Mac in perfect digital quality.
Using the on-screen “Remote Control” or included IR Remote you can:

* pause the program when the phone rings
* repeat a favorite section
* fast forward

Record TV on your Mac
EyeTV records digital television directly to your Mac’s hard drive to watch immediately or later. Collect and organize your favorite shows to watch again whenever you want. Program EyeTV to record your favorite shows once, every day or every week.

Edit out unwanted content
The built-in editor lets you quickly edit recorded television to save only the parts you want to see again. Its intuitive, graphical timeline easily identifies where programs or scenes stop and start, so you can leave unwanted content behind.

Archive and take your TV to go
Save your collection of favorite shows for all times. Create DVDs, VideoCDs or S-Video CDs of your recorded television shows that you can play anywhere on standard DVD players.* (Toast 6 Titanium required).

Next generation digital broadcasting
Digital broadcast television is the way of the future, providing interference-free reception and remarkable digital picture and sound quality. EyeTV 400 includes a terrestrial digital video broadcasting (DVB-T) tuner that receives perfect "free-to-air" digital quality television (MPEG-2 encoded) on the Mac via a small portable **antenna (included).

The Speed and Power of FireWire
EyeTV is the first computer peripheral digital satellite video recorder to utilize FireWire, the gold standard of high-speed data transfer, making it possible to transfer high-quality, digital television to watch and record on the Mac.

Only on the Mac
EyeTV is available only on the Mac - the natural home for digital content, such as home movies, digital photos, music and now television. EyeTV’s software is everything you have come to expect on the Mac – easy to install, set up and use.

You'll never want to watch another television show without EyeTV digital video recorder!

System Requirements
Macintosh computer with minimum PowerPC G4 500Mhz or G5 processor and built-in FireWire port, Mac OS X 10.2.8 or higher and 256MB of RAM (512MB recommended), **Digital terrestrial (DVB-T) antenna (included), Approximately 2GB of hard disk space per hour of recorded TV, A CD/DVD recorder and Roxio’s Toast 6 Titanium software (not included) are required to create DVDs, SVCD or VideoCDs (optional).

**EyeTV 410 Works where DVB-T (Digital Terrestial Television) is available. The included miniature antenna/aerial is primarily intended for use in areas where DVB-T broadcasting stations emit enough power for mobile DVB-T reception. If you cannot pick up the available channels in your area with the included antenna/aerial, you will need to install or use an existing outdoor antenna/aerial.
Click here for a list of digital broadcast coverage maps.

Elgato advertise the EyeTV 410 as being able to receive & record subscription (PayTV) television using Common Interface. This feature is not supported in Australia.

* A 1GHz G4 processor or higher is recommended for viewing and recording High Definition broadcasts.

Rec. Retail $475.00
Streetwise $439.00


#4 ajm

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 09:19 AM

New "PVR"? How do you want it?

White with one (button) please.

#5 renura

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 09:45 AM

Rec. Retail $475.00
Streetwise $439.00

The TinuUSB2 device or the TwinHan Alpha work with the Mac and only cost a fraction of the cost :blink: what a rip-off

#6 HyperReality

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 10:11 AM

The TinuUSB2 device or the TwinHan Alpha work with the Mac and only cost a fraction of the cost :blink: what a rip-off

So the Twinhan USB devices work with the eyeTV software, or just iTele?

#7 JimmyB

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 10:26 AM

The TinuUSB2 device or the TwinHan Alpha work with the Mac and only cost a fraction of the cost :blink: what a rip-off


The tinyUSB2 works with iTele, not with EyeTV software. As much as I appreciate John D's work in the area, the software is nowhere near as functional.

Somewhat back on-topic, I am not sure how adding a TV tuner fits in with Apple's current strategy. Surely they would prefer you to buy TV shows from the iTunes store rather than recording them for free on your DVB-T / ASTC tuner.

#8 DigitalObserver

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 10:27 AM

The TinuUSB2 device or the TwinHan Alpha work with the Mac and only cost a fraction of the cost :blink: what a rip-off

Hi Renura, i know that you are a great helper of people on the forum so could you elaborate please.

The elgato "seems" to offer a plug and play solution for both recording, and the apparently troublesome areas of editing and making DVD's.

I looked at the TinyUSB on your site and the cost and specs appear great but . . . .
the link to the mac drivers takes me to the world of computers and all the language and expectations that this has about my knowledge of both computers and my computer in particular. i.e. it is written for the computer literate, not just someone who wants to record some Tv.

Is the elgato a fair price for plug and play and the verstility it "offers"?
does it deliver it?
is it value for a user friendly, one stop solution?

On the other hand can a "non technical" mac user expect to plug in the Tiny USB, download some drivers, record and make DVD's without hassle and without having to purchase any other software?

Thanks
DO

#9 renura

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 10:34 AM

http://www.twinhan.c...rrestrial_9.asp

Links speak better than words :blink:

#10 ajm

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 10:41 AM

Hi Renura, i know that you are a great helper of people on the forum so could you elaborate please.

The elgato "seems" to offer a plug and play solution for both recording, and the apparently troublesome areas of editing and making DVD's.

I looked at the TinyUSB on your site and the cost and specs appear great but . . . .
the link to the mac drivers takes me to the world of computers and all the language and expectations that this has about my knowledge of both computers and my computer in particular. i.e. it is written for the computer literate, not just someone who wants to record some Tv.

Is the elgato a fair price for plug and play and the verstility it "offers"?
does it deliver it?
is it value for a user friendly, one stop solution?

On the other hand can a "non technical" mac user expect to plug in the Tiny USB, download some drivers, record and make DVD's without hassle and without having to purchase any other software?

Thanks
DO

Has such an application ever been produced that doesn't require some level of PC knowledge from the user?

Everything should work like that but from experience I'm yet to see any application that didn't require at least some updating, tweaking, wrestling or firm negotiation. PC or Mac.

#11 HyperReality

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 10:51 AM

http://www.twinhan.c...rrestrial_9.asp

Links speak better than words :blink:

Is the application being bundled with the Alpha, a TwinHan independently developed Mac application, or is it a version of iTele?

The links at the bottom of this page on the TwinHan site is to a PDF that shows how to install iTele.

I've not used eyeTV or iTele, so I have no comparison I can make, I'm just curious as to what TwinHan are doing. If they are bundling iTele, I hope John D is being financially looked after, for all his hard work.

#12 renura

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 10:55 AM

Is the application being bundled with the Alpha, a TwinHan independently developed Mac application, or is it a version of iTele?

The links at the bottom of this page on the TwinHan site is to a PDF that shows how to install iTele.

I've not used eyeTV or iTele, so I have no comparison I can make, I'm just curious as to what TwinHan are doing. If they are bundling iTele, I hope John D is being financially looked after, for all his hard work.

HR

Firstly, please read!!
TwinHan Tech co Ltd proudly presents TwinHan DTV Alpha MAC edition for MAC user to enjoy grateful HDTV experience on their MAC. By bundling with Award winning software- Elgato Eye TV, TwinHan DTV Alpha MAC edition make user to control digital TV as they wants.

Secondly, John knows all about TwinHan and iTele :blink:

Cheers

Renura

#13 HyperReality

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 11:03 AM

Firstly, please read!!

Oops, my bad. :blink: :P

Secondly, John know all about TwinHan and iTele :P

I in no way implied that he didn't.

#14 renura

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 11:06 AM

Oops, my bad. :blink: :P

I in no way implied that he didn't.

No worries :P

#15 Inego

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 11:06 AM

So, where are the no-hassle twin tuners of the Topyy? :blink:

The lack of mac interactivity for the Toppy is my only real annoyance with it. If I could get the same functionality that talked readily to my mac (or was my mac!) I'd really be tempted, but not if it was some "make-do" arrangement.

Kent

#16 askegg

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 01:02 PM

...
Somewhat back on-topic, I am not sure how adding a TV tuner fits in with Apple's current strategy. Surely they would prefer you to buy TV shows from the iTunes store rather than recording them for free on your DVB-T / ASTC tuner.


I would not be too sure on that. Apple has a history of canabalising their existing markets; with good reason. They are a very customer driven company and Steve Jobs is a perfectionist. If they can make a better device or add functions customers want, then they will do it. The iPod Nano is a good example.

I find this refreshing. It seems many companies wil not release a new product until they have milked all the money from their existing line up, which is often driven by competitor releasing a new/better product. It all has to do with recoping their R&D investment. Apple aren't that stupid.

#17 phase52001

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 02:05 PM

So, where are the no-hassle twin tuners of the Topyy? :blink:

The lack of mac interactivity for the Toppy is my only real annoyance with it. If I could get the same functionality that talked readily to my mac (or was my mac!) I'd really be tempted, but not if it was some "make-do" arrangement.

Kent


My apologies, I haven't had time to read throught he whole thread.

Just wanted to say in case it's of interest to anyone:

I have EyeTV 410, it works very well; (records SD and HD if required); and I've only every had one issue with it. An earlier version of the software, (prior to the current 1.8.3), sometimes had trouble exporting trimmed footage, creating a very obvious jump. (Note: the fault happened very infrequently). I made Elgato aware of this but I'm not sure if they have fixed it or not, because:

I just use MPEG Streamclip instead.

Open the EyeTV recording and you can do everything you want and I've never had a problem. And MPEG Streamclip has Altair built in. Dead easy to use with the Toppy. Download, upload, edit, convert.

And if I could afford DSP4 I could make HD-DVDs. (But lets not go there).

#18 FyKnight

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 05:50 PM

Please note folks that this is still a rumour. ThinkSecret being a rumour site. Although I'm sure one day Apple will come out with a Mac PVR / TV tuner thingy that is incompatible with all its competitors, free (iTele) or otherwise (EyeTV). Apple do this a lot... in fact, I think the name of this product 'Kaleidoscope' is ironically one of the more famous ones from the past... IIRC it was a shareware GUI themes utility that Apple eclipsed when they built in the same functionality into the OS.

As for iTele, yes it lacks some features that EyeTV has. However it also has some features that EyeTV doesn't have last time I checked - e.g. network sharing with Bonjour, a DVB-sourced EPG... though the balance is still squarely in EyeTV's favour for most people. Especially if you prefer a pretty GUI over a minimalist one.

Which is fair enough as EyeTV sells for ~50 euros and I haven't received a cent for any of my DVB stuff (only lots of hardware :blink:). I'm doing it because I want to watch/record/edit/etc TV on my Mac and not to make a profit by selling 'a solution' to anyone. And it turns out that quite a few people want these same things as me, so they use iTele + friends too.

#19 ascl

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 06:06 PM

I will be keeping a close eye on this.... The current mac mini lacks grunt for PVR work (eg it cannot play back HD DIVX), but an intel based one will be very interesting.


Of course I'm getting sick of the lack of convergence... why do I really need a STB, a game console and a media streaming box? All in one please!

(The xbox 360 is going to do MOST of what I want... but not all).

#20 Foggy

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 08:08 PM

Steve Jobs will be making his keynote speech on January 10, at Macworld Expo 2006.

If he does announce a new mac mini with DVB/PVR with Front Row 2.0 and Intel CPU, I will be camping out at the Apple store for mine!

#21 joeybloggs

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 10:14 PM

Because you're a sucker for underpowered, overpriced, massively marketed, unproven shiny trinkets with DRM up the wazoo ??? :blink: Or was there a realistic reason :P

#22 Foggy

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 11:10 PM

Because you're a sucker for underpowered, overpriced, massively marketed, unproven shiny trinkets with DRM up the wazoo ??? :blink: Or was there a realistic reason :P

stay exactly as you are.... ignorance is bliss :P :P

#23 :)

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 05:40 AM

Steve Jobs will be making his keynote speech on January 10, at Macworld Expo 2006.

If he does announce a new mac mini with DVB/PVR with Front Row 2.0 and Intel CPU, I will be camping out at the Apple store for mine!


I'd be more than keen myself.

compare the kind of pc you can build yourself with dvd burner and HD pvr functionality for the same price as a toppy masterpiece. And then ask your self who is being ripped off. PVRs are overpriced to the max at the moment due to toppy's dominanace. And given the troublesome problematic nature of the only HD pvr out there the tosh - I think a pc (as I'm doing now) with HD tuner, dvd burner and hard drive is a much better and cheaper option.

mac I'm sure would make the very best of this and I'm sure there'll be plenty buying...

#24 Foggy

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 06:30 AM

I'd be more than keen myself.

compare the kind of pc you can build yourself with dvd burner and HD pvr functionality for the same price as a toppy masterpiece. And then ask your self who is being ripped off. PVRs are overpriced to the max at the moment due to toppy's dominanace. And given the troublesome problematic nature of the only HD pvr out there the tosh - I think a pc (as I'm doing now) with HD tuner, dvd burner and hard drive is a much better and cheaper option.

mac I'm sure would make the very best of this and I'm sure there'll be plenty buying...

You're dead right Al.

Let me assure you that this isn't something that I'm jumping into blindly.. I've never owned a mac, and I must have owned 20+ PC's since 1988, not to mention Commodore Amiga, 64, and Apple II before that, and I use PC's every day to develop software, so my decision is not based on blind ignorance and the "it's so purdy" syndrome.

Having tinkered with an iMac running Front Row and an Elgato EyeTV card & software recently, I came away extremely impressed with the simplicity of the user interface. One of the key factors for me was just how integrated and seamless the media management software is. Yes, iTunes and the various copy protections can be annoying for some people, but this will not be a problem for me with my usage habits.

All the software that you need comes with the mac to record, edit, burn to DVD, and transfer to your video iPod, and it is so easy to use, that even my luddite wife can do it!

Then I considered what PVR's have built in Wifi, web browser, direct burning to DVD, Media card readers, iPod dock, USB2, Firewire etc. and the choice is fast becoming clearer. And as a bonus, it's bundled into this nice little box that doesn't make much noise or overheat, and allows you to use a bluetooth keyboard & mouse.

Is it more expensive than a similar spec PC? ... well not if you take into account the bundled software. You would have to purchase (or pirate) a whole bunch of disintegrated software on a PC to achieve the same thing. Mac OSX also has excellent inbuilt video adjustment and calibration options in the Control Panel with profile settings for different display devices.

The only negative that I can see so far is that it's only a single tuner, but for all the positives above, I think I can live with that! :blink:

EDIT: Perhaps if people thought about the mac more as a multimedia appliance than a computer, there would be less biggotry towards them. Mac owners are no longer PC illiterate artists, but I think a lot of PC owners still carry the same attitude as the old days.

Edited by Foghorn17, 06 December 2005 - 07:08 AM.


#25 joeybloggs

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 09:21 AM

stay exactly as you are.... ignorance is bliss :D :blink:

stay exactly as you are.... delusion is the real bliss :P :P

Is it more expensive than a similar spec PC? ... well not if you take into account the bundled software. You would have to purchase (or pirate) a whole bunch of disintegrated software on a PC to achieve the same thing.

Nonsense about the pricing, I'll accept your word about the sw integration.

Mac OSX also has excellent inbuilt video adjustment and calibration options in the Control Panel with profile settings for different display devices.

Oh you mean like every version of windows since Win2000 at least :P

EDIT: Perhaps if people thought about the mac more as a multimedia appliance than a computer, there would be less biggotry towards them. Mac owners are no longer PC illiterate artists, but I think a lot of PC owners still carry the same attitude as the old days.

Nope AFAIK they still tend to be owned by people without a clue ~ regardless of what you want to call them (the computer not the people). Because rational people don't buy them :P