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Transponder (Repeater) For Caravan Park

transponder repeater

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#1 phillip molesworth

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 03:53 PM

We are in the north west corner of Victoria in the Mallee. Our TV antenna are mounted on towers in the homes as a normal roof antenna doesn't pick up a signal. Our caravan park has an antenna but it is only on the managers office. My question is this. Is there a device that we can connect to the antenna and repeat the signal so visitors to the park can receive the signal through their caravan mounted antenna?



#2 CaptainObvious

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 06:26 PM

Retransmission is technically possible, but there are several regulatory and contractual hoops that one has to jump through first that would likely push it out of your pocket's reach.

 

How many sites are there?  It might be feasible to install a cabled distribution system that visitors could plug their equipment into, or even 'toss the wire over their antenna' to induce enough signal in it to get reception.



#3 phillip molesworth

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 01:59 PM

Thank you for your reply. Cabling in the area is not a real option at the moment. We are investigating the repeater through the air option and its costs first. The hoops we need to jump through will be looked at once we have settled on the equipment the we need to achieve result we are looking for.



#4 CaptainObvious

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 02:17 PM

What would probably be the best option would be a set of infill repeaters.  They are off the shelf items and take the signal from, say the antenna on the manager's office, recondition it and retransmit it on the same frequency as the main broadcast.  Dig around with Google, but it'll make a mess of your pocket.  You'd then need to get a licence from ACMA to transmit on the relevant frequencies (this will cost and won't be easy) and finally an agreement with the originating networks to re-broadcast their service (don't expect this to be easy either).

 

They require professional installation, as amongst other things, there must be sufficient isolation between the receiving antenna and the transmitting antenna otherwise nasty things happen.

 

A dodgey option would be to simply slap an antenna on the output of a high gain distribution amplifier which is fed from the manager's antenna.  Again this requires good isolation between in and out and is prone to many other problems to boot, not to mention you being responsible for any RFI it causes to anyone in the area. and ACMA takes a dim view of that.



#5 alanh

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 12:25 AM

Phillip,

Any retransmission is illegal unless pre-approved by the ACMA. They will specify the technical characteristics of the equipment which cannot be found by googling overseas sites. They will want to use a translator which changes the transmission channels. Re-transmitting on the same channels will cause feed back stuffing up the reception to all including the manager.

 

A better option is available to canvasser's is a portable VAST satellite receiver. The reception is free and reliable.

 

Where is the caravan park?

 

Alanh



#6 CaptainObvious

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 06:23 AM

Some people, particuarly those that have championed infill repeaters in the past even if they didn't know that commercial off the shelf units are available, should keep their mouths shut if they have no idea of what they are talking about.

 

Let's see.  A portable VAST satellite receiver setup by say 20, for a modest sized van park.  That makes a mess of abot $20,000.  Way to go alan.



#7 Ron12

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 11:34 AM

I thought that you are allowed to make your own transmission as long as they are restricted to your property (this information is from the 80's).  For example, I've read that it's possible to get DAB+ retransmitters for transmitting DAB+ in store.  Also consider all those car radio adaptors that transmit a low power FM signal to the car radio.



#8 Malich

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 12:50 PM

Last time I asked ACMA* it was a little more complicated than that, but active TV/DAB+/FM re-transmitters almost definitely require a licence for commercial use - especially when used in the open like a caravan park.

 

The main exceptions are for class-licenced devices for retransmitting TV/DAB inside buildings (which are restricted to max 10uW EIRP measured outside the building [edit: 12uW for TV senders]), and FM radio adaptors (which are supposed to be ;) limited to max 10uW & not used on the same frequency as a licenced station in the region).

 

(* ~2009, for a friend who owned a local electrical store & was getting ready for DAB+. It all got too hard - particularly because no-one knew whether DAB+ would take off or not - so we ended up just hanging a dipole cut to 205MHz in the corner & fed via a balun to the exisiting TV distribution setup. Worked perfectly - DAB+ worked in most of the store, dropped out as you stepped up to the door, and picked up again once you stepped outside  :thumbsup:)


Edited by Malich, 02 February 2015 - 01:04 PM.


#9 phillip molesworth

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 12:59 PM

Thank you all for your feedback. It has been a valuable resource and I will now report back to the town committee.

From your information I will be recommending that they go to the cost of laying cables to the powered sites and forget the concept of retransmission.

 

Sorry I am so long getting back Alanh asked where the caravan park is located. It is in Rainbow in the Mallee on the edge of Big Desert.



#10 Malich

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 03:03 PM

I wouldn't totally write off retransmission, though a cabled solution is likely to be cheaper (and from what I've seen, it isn't uncommon in caravan parks). It'd certainly be worth asking an experienced local installer, or maybe even ACMA at a pinch, for ideas / options.

 

(And a quick bit of advice: take anything AlanH says with a huge grain of salt, as it's usually little more than uninformed guesswork based on half-understood product brochures, press releases, the MySwitch website, and random Googling...)



#11 alanh

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 12:13 AM

Phillip,

You are eligible for licencing for VAST satellite reception, because the only local transmitter is at Hopetoun-Beulah. The  only transmitter on that site is the ABC. No other networks.

http://www.acma.gov....lite-television Apply via the Vast and more information buttons on the https://myswitch.digitalready.gov.au/

 

As for distributing the VAST signal http://acma.gov.au/I...ission-services. You may be able to get the shire to help out so that the whole of Rainbow can get all channels. Other examples http://www.acma.gov....ion-licensees-1

 

If the caravan park is very small it would be cheaper to hire out a VAST dish and receiver on each site. For all channels. To feed all sites from a central point you need 5 VAST receivers but each one can only be tuned to a single channel  whether it is all ABC radio studio programs from right around Australia including ABC Western Victoria, Riverland and 10 national radio services or ABC1, or ABC2, ABC3 or ABC24.

A retransmission system will allow each viewer to select any channel.

 

The dish could be mounted on a pole next to the site so that it does not have to be re-pointed for each user.

 

Feeding an unreliable weak signal from a single ABC transmitter signal through cables to each site will give only intermittent reception of a single network. 

 

Some what more factual than the generic post above. Finding qualified antenna installer is remote areas is very difficult.

 

Alanh


Edited by alanh, 24 February 2015 - 02:02 AM.


#12 Malich

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 03:43 AM

Some what more factual than the generic post above.


Thank you Alan. That's all that we've ever asked of you - factual, non-generic content.

 

Glad to see you're finally getting the idea...