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Harvey Norman And Their Dirty Tricks


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#26 fat

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:49 PM

Based on what you have said they are not only employing bait and switch tactics which they have been done for in the past, but also the "bundling" may actually be third line forcing which is also illegal

#27 Chopsus

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:19 PM

Based on what you have said they are not only employing bait and switch tactics which they have been done for in the past, but also the "bundling" may actually be third line forcing which is also illegal


Don't tell PG ...

#28 yorac

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 04:51 AM

Gerry Harvey wouldn't know how to read an electricity bill...............

#29 Chopsus

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 06:45 AM

Tax Gerry's Super!

#30 Blackman

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:08 AM

Amazing how you never mentioned ANY of that information in your original OP

Then we would have had more sympathy for you

Lets quote the first part of your OP again
"I was told Harvey Norman had PS4's in stock yesterday so I drove to one of their outlets"

You never said you called them
You never said you bothered to ask how much it was or what they had in stock
You never said that you confirmed with them on phone while you were looking at their website that indeed the price was $XXX and thats what you were about to buy from them

BTW did you pre-order the bundle with the overpriced product care, or did you preorder just the console? Because from the looks of it, they dont have your preorder available yet. Only the bundle with the overpriced product care, which is not what you preordered from the sounds of it

Take your business elsewhere - you are the consumer and you have the power


Well Some complain if you give to much information but in this case I didn't give enough information (trying to keep it basic) but since you like information have a look at my earlier post on when I bough my Hecto before Xmas (dec 2013) and I was given a Large gift card and not long after that I pre ordered my PS4.

#31 Blackman

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:14 AM

Based on what you have said they are not only employing bait and switch tactics which they have been done for in the past, but also the "bundling" may actually be third line forcing which is also illegal

Well I'm not in a hurry whenever HN gets them and decides to sell them without a package I will go and cash in my gift card. Maybe waiting could be a good thing as I would expect the later batches to have the Harware fixes that some have complained about on other sites.

#32 Blackman

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:23 AM

Amazing how you never mentioned ANY of that information in your original OP

Then we would have had more sympathy for you

Lets quote the first part of your OP again
"I was told Harvey Norman had PS4's in stock yesterday so I drove to one of their outlets"



BTW did you pre-order the bundle with the overpriced product care, or did you preorder just the console? Because from the looks of it, they dont have your preorder available yet. Only the bundle with the overpriced product care, which is not what you preordered from the sounds of it

Take your business elsewhere - you are the consumer and you have the power


They didn't have the product care invented yet before Xmas so its only one answer and that is the PS4 only
As for "Taking your business elsewhere I doubt if Jb's, KMart, EB Games will give me a PS4 if I hand over a HN Gift voucher. Taking my business elsewhere will be another HN store as they will honour the Gift Voucher.

#33 kulfi

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 12:01 PM

There is a basic flaw in PG's argument - he stated that if you ring a dealer and ask him if he had any Honda Preludes. Dealer says yes and then you go to the yard and find they're all green.

The OP's problem isn't related to a console in a different colour. Using that example, what he's saying is that the dealer has advertised a Honda Prelude for let's say, $30,000. You call the dealer, he says "Sure, I've got them, come over".
So you go to the yard and the dealer shows you the cars but when you write the cheque for 30k, he says "Sorry mate, I can't let you drive away with it for 30k because it's below cost. Tell you what, I like you so you can have it for 32k with the optional sports accessory pack thrown in".

This is exactly what HN did to the OP. BTW I've had a car salesman try to pull exactly the same stunt on me when I wanted a brand new car two years ago. No prizes for guessing that the dealership was on Parramatta Road and equally, no prizes for guessing that my cheque ended up with some other's dealer's name on it.

#34 pgdownload

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 02:37 PM

There is a basic flaw in PG's argument - Using that example, what he's saying is that the dealer has advertised

I'm happy to be corrected, but in this case the only flaw appears to be not reading the the whole post in question :). My key point (was) that HN haven't 'advertised' the product and then provided another one in store (as your flaw assumes has been done). The 'green' scenario was only in reference to the lack of questioning the OP made before heading to the store.

Note that the term 'advertised' is somewhat misused here. They had a product available from their online store. The ad was quite clear (right next to the price in bold) that the deal is available online only. Its also very common practice for online and B&M prices to differ. I get that fine print can be a problem but that isn't the case here.

But people seem to be selectively deciding what information they chose to use :)

I get the nuances (not to mention flagrant deceptions) marketing can throw up and yes HN have probably engaged in most of them at one time or other. But the OP has asked about this particular situation and IMO there's been not calculated effort to deceive. The source material is clearly marked ONLINE only and was initially a PRE-ORDERING service with a special deal. Its still not clear that the OP ever saw this listing or just new the RRP of a PS4 was $547 and a mate said they're on sale at HN now. I'm quite sure if the OP had ever asked "How Much" he would have been told the current price and saved himself the trip.

So have HN actively or even inadvertently engaged in 'deceptive practices' in this instance? Not as far as I can tell. Did the OP make a number of assumptions and mistakes in his (understandable) eagerness to cash in his gift card for the latest and greatest PS? It appears so (to me). The only possible issue I can see is (disregarding all other events) that the PS4 was bundled with a care package. I don't really know if this in and of itself is (or should be) considered illegal. It seems to me there are a great many products that are sold bundled (to the benefit of the consumer in many cases).

Should consumer affairs be called in? I prefer the law when it works for everyone. I can't see what misdeed HN might be guilty of here. I can't see how I would want them punished and I can't see what I would want them to change that would make the situation any better (there's only so large and so prominent you can make the DISCLAIMER FONTS :))

Regards

Peter Gillespie

FWIW: The linked HN site has been updated now. Still an online only offer, but the $537 is the same price as they are selling in store (if you can find any available for sale)

Edited by pgdownload, 26 February 2014 - 02:42 PM.


#35 yorac

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 04:40 PM

Oh great, the OT section has found a way out.............

#36 pgdownload

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 07:55 PM

Oh great, the OT section has found a way out.............

I assume you're referring to your own post yorac? Its been the only 'me too' irrelevant comment so far :)
Regards

Peter Gillespie

Edited by pgdownload, 26 February 2014 - 08:13 PM.


#37 yorac

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:01 PM

I assume you're referring to your own post yorac? Its been the only self serving irrelevant comment so far :) Its very hard to go off topic on a thread along the lines of "I've been hard done by, what do you guys think" :)

Regards

Peter Gillespie


:D

#38 DansDans

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 08:01 AM

They didn't have the product care invented yet before Xmas so its only one answer and that is the PS4 only
As for "Taking your business elsewhere I doubt if Jb's, KMart, EB Games will give me a PS4 if I hand over a HN Gift voucher. Taking my business elsewhere will be another HN store as they will honour the Gift Voucher.


If only there was a way for you to sell the gift voucher to other people for the face value, thus freeing you from the obligation of using it and allowing you to take your business elsewhere

I'm surprised no one has thought of this yet

#39 Chopsus

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 10:15 AM

There is a recycle company for corporate users - they pay something like 50 cents on the dollar though.

#40 Henhrig

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:21 AM

Just a question...

Why wouldnt you want to buy a game with it though :)

whats the point getting the console and not getting a game?

and sorry to be the devils advocate here but I like there product care, it gives me more rights than the ACCC does. I have already used it to get a few things replaced outside of manufacturer's warranty that I would not have had a leg to stand on through the court systems using the ACCC or consumer laws

#41 Blackman

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:03 AM

Just a question...

Why wouldnt you want to buy a game with it though :)



Because I can get the games I wanted a lot cheaper elsewhere.
Anyhow I have the PS4 now thanks to another Harvey Norman that gladly excepted my gift card with no product care.
As for product care all I can say is each to their own on this subject Product care or Extended warranty you can call it what you want .......and we all know what the Office of Fair trading thinks about Extended Warranty.

#42 Henhrig

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 12:33 PM

As for product care all I can say is each to their own on this subject Product care or Extended warranty you can call it what you want .......and we all know what the Office of Fair trading thinks about Extended Warranty.


Funnily enough I work for a division of the ACCC and the division that manages " extended warranty queries / complaints " went through HN with a fine tooth comb, and HN " product care " actually gives you more rights than the Consumer laws ( I know there is a first for everything hahaha, GG is a different story though lol )

but like you said each to there own, we are not here to debate that topic...

Edited by Henhrig, 09 March 2014 - 07:43 PM.


#43 Alan Rutlidge

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:58 PM

I was told Harvey Norman had PS4's in stock yesterday so I drove to one of their outlets only to be confronted by a salesman that the PS4's are sold ONLY as a pack being a PS4+ one game+ product care for a good price (COUGH) of $749. They are the masters of trickery. What do you think Guys why the dirty tricks, cant they see that **** like this puts the wind up customers.


This really annoys me, especially when you see Gerry on the TV crapping on about lowering the threshold of value of imported items for the purposes of applying the GST citing it would help small business. HN are notorious for stretching the truth and not disclosing the full conditions of sale until the customer (just as you have) has gone to the trouble to visit the store to purchase an in-stock item.

I got talked into purchasing an extended HN two year warranty on a Nikon D7000 SLR only to discover when I registered my camera at the Nikon Australia website that Nikon had already applied an additional 2 year manufacture's warranty on my purchase. In effect I paid HN for an extended warranty I couldn't possibly claim on. I later emailed Nikon to ask how long their free extended warranty had been in place and if dealers were aware of this. They replied the extended warranty had been in place for many months, applied to all their digital cameras and authorised dealers should have been making customers aware of this as a bonus to boost sales of Nikon digital cameras at the time. Clearly the salesperson at the HN franchise chose to overlook this fact, but was quite happy to sell me a product I couldn't use (in this case the extended 2 year warranty). Nothing short of legalised theft IMHO.

As it would appear when you often read post regarding HN stores, it's caveat emptor. :shifty:

Cheers,
Alan

#44 t0dd

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:13 AM

This really annoys me, especially when you see Gerry on the TV crapping on about lowering the threshold of value of imported items for the purposes of applying the GST citing it would help small business. HN are notorious for stretching the truth and not disclosing the full conditions of sale until the customer (just as you have) has gone to the trouble to visit the store to purchase an in-stock item.

I got talked into purchasing an extended HN two year warranty on a Nikon D7000 SLR only to discover when I registered my camera at the Nikon Australia website that Nikon had already applied an additional 2 year manufacture's warranty on my purchase. In effect I paid HN for an extended warranty I couldn't possibly claim on. I later emailed Nikon to ask how long their free extended warranty had been in place and if dealers were aware of this. They replied the extended warranty had been in place for many months, applied to all their digital cameras and authorised dealers should have been making customers aware of this as a bonus to boost sales of Nikon digital cameras at the time. Clearly the salesperson at the HN franchise chose to overlook this fact, but was quite happy to sell me a product I couldn't use (in this case the extended 2 year warranty). Nothing short of legalised theft IMHO.

As it would appear when you often read post regarding HN stores, it's caveat emptor. :shifty:

Cheers,
Alan


Any extended warranty must have a cooling off period, you can contact HN or better yet the warranty provider and cancel it for a full refund before the cooling off period expires.

#45 pgdownload

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:20 AM

Any extended warranty must have a cooling off period, you can contact HN or better yet the warranty provider and cancel it for a full refund before the cooling off period expires.

Good advice. Not sure if every state is covered, although where it is it seems to be about 10 days usually.

Nothing short of legalised theft IMHO.

There's nothing illegal in selling someone something they don't need (Just look at expensive HDMI cables). Most sales are based on maximising the return. The camera you bought is quite possibly not the one you need, you just don't know it in this case. Here, the sales staff had more knowledge than you about a product and used it to their advantage. FWIW Nikon might offer an extended warranty however there's nothing stopping HN using it to boost their own bottom line rather than Nikon's. In this case, the smart money might be to drop the price of the camera itself compared to other dealers (hence you buy from HN). They then offer an extended warranty (which costs them nothing as its already covered by Nikon) and recoup the lower sale price and then some. Sure it leaves a sour taste when you find out, but stores like HN are no longer about customer satisfaction or repeat business.

Having said all that, its probably more likely that the sales person in question probably wasn't aware of the Nikon bonus (despite Nikon's wishful thinking) and of course is under pressure to sell extended warranties to anyone on any one of a thousand products they deal with daily.

Anyway, its good that consumer laws don't really care about why the warranty was sold (avarice, cunning or oversight), just that you get to change your mind afterwards :)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Edited by pgdownload, 31 March 2014 - 08:21 AM.