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Blu-Ray "pure Audio"


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#176 Jutta

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 11:14 PM

I finally got around to giving the Nevermind disc a run. I found the DTS-HD track probably the most dynamic but later in the disc each time a new song start it just played massive distorted noise. I'd switch audio tracks and all good. Not sure if it's a disc issue or device related. I'm running an Oppo 103D on latest firmware into a Denon X-4000

#177 Quark

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 06:52 AM

I finally got around to giving the Nevermind disc a run. I found the DTS-HD track probably the most dynamic but later in the disc each time a new song start it just played massive distorted noise. I'd switch audio tracks and all good. Not sure if it's a disc issue or device related. I'm running an Oppo 103D on latest firmware into a Denon X-4000

 

Try having the Oppo decode to PCM - sounds like a disc authoring issue.



#178 Jutta

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 08:46 AM

It was fine on PCM and TrueHd Quark. Just the issue with DTS-HD

#179 MLXXX

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 12:56 PM

I think what was being suggested was to play the DTS-HD track but with the player set to decode the DTS-HD to LPCM, rather than simply bitstreaming it still compressed for the Denon AVR to decode.

I'd have thought the DTS-HD track should have had exactly the same dynamic range as the other two versions.

#180 Quark

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 02:45 PM

I think what was being suggested was to play the DTS-HD track but with the player set to decode the DTS-HD to LPCM, rather than simply bitstreaming it still compressed for the Denon AVR to decode.

 

 

That's what I meant. :)



#181 Jutta

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 04:31 PM

Not sure how to do that. There is no menu on the disc. The only way I can find to change audio tracks is to press audio and it lists the three options; PCM, TrueHD and DTS.
It does it on the fly.
As for dynamic range well not sure but the DTS had a different sound compared to the other two that had hardly a discernible difference between them.
It's no big problem for me. Just scared the hell outta me as I had it reasonably loud at the time.
I'll take a look at the bitstream options next time I run it. Thanks.

Edited by Jutta, 21 January 2015 - 04:33 PM.


#182 Quark

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 04:46 PM

The option to decode to PCM rather than bitstream will be in your player's menu.


Edited by Quark, 21 January 2015 - 04:46 PM.


#183 Jutta

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 06:58 PM

Cheers

Is that preferable?

#184 Quark

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 08:35 PM

Cheers

Is that preferable?

 

In theory, there should be no difference, in practice different players can produce varying results.  I generally only decode to PCM in the player on problem discs, cos it's nice to see the shiny DTS-HD or like light up in the receiver/processor.



#185 Chopsus

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 10:30 PM

In theory, there should be no difference, in practice different players can produce varying results.  I generally only decode to PCM in the player on problem discs, cos it's nice to see the shiny DTS-HD or like light up in the receiver/processor.

LOL!

I'm guilty of the same 8)

UPCM is true lossless ... Dolby True HD and DTSHDMA are a lossy core with the lossless difference added . All should be exactly the same, but the latter two do sound different if you listen hard.

Edited by Chopsus, 21 January 2015 - 10:33 PM.


#186 STAINLESS

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 07:17 PM

I finally got around to giving the Nevermind disc a run. I found the DTS-HD track probably the most dynamic but later in the disc each time a new song start it just played massive distorted noise. I'd switch audio tracks and all good. Not sure if it's a disc issue or device related. I'm running an Oppo 103D on latest firmware into a Denon X-4000

 

Same disc, same receiver different player, same issue.

 

 

Try having the Oppo decode to PCM - sounds like a disc authoring issue.

 

same solution but wtf?

why cant this **** just work like putting a cartridge into a sega master system? JUST WORK FFS!



#187 Jutta

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 07:18 PM

Lol

#188 Jutta

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 07:20 PM

I gotta say the few discs I have don't sound anywhere near as good as the Emotiva 2 channel system I sold. Regretting that decision now. Although people did say that the Denon wasn't as good as Yamaha at music. Maybe that's true.
Actually not enjoying the sound of movies even as much to be honest.
I think I'll just build another 2 ch setup and hopefully enjoy the new house if it happens with the HT room. Less than ideal the current living area
But that's OT sorry

Edited by Jutta, 02 February 2015 - 07:23 PM.


#189 Quark

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 08:07 PM

 

Same disc, same receiver different player, same issue.

 

 

same solution but wtf?

why cant this **** just work like putting a cartridge into a sega master system? JUST WORK FFS!

 

Some of these the problem is a deliberate klutz to try to complicate piracy (yeah, like that really works) - the rest of the time it's just cheap@rse studios handing out disc authoring to the lowest cost "expert".



#190 Jutta

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 08:27 PM

In not sure why they bother Quark. Drop the anti piracy component which might lessen disc and player costs.
Just shits me. Waiting desperately to see American Sniper at the cinema when the rest of the work crew are sharing around the pirated copy weeks before release. What's the point of charging the rest of us for something that's useless.

#191 MLXXX

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 10:30 PM

I'm a bit late in commenting here; only saw Chopsus' post tonight.
 

UPCM is true lossless ... Dolby True HD and DTSHDMA are a lossy core with the lossless difference added . All should be exactly the same, but the latter two do sound different if you listen hard.

Chopsus, I'm not familiar with the term UPCM. LPCM means linear PCM and empahasises that the bitstream is not a compressed version of PCM such as Dolby Digital, but actual uncompressed bytes with actual instantaneous sample amplitudes.

I have often read that DTS HDMA has a lossy core and indeed some early decoders can only extract and use that core, and disregard the rest. I have not previously read that Dolby True HD has a lossy core. Anyway, my main query follows.

When you say they sound different "if you listen hard", do you mean:


1. The three tracks on this title Blu-ray disc with your particular AVR sound different (i.e. on a different AVR they might sound the same)

2. The three tracks on this title Blu-ray disc would sound different on AVRs generally (i.e. the tracks on this particular title are from different masters or at different gain settings, etc)

3. LPCM vs Dolby True HD vs DTS HDMA will sound different on any Blu-ray title on any AVR (i.e. Dolby True HD and DTS HDMA are not perfectly lossless, or they are lossless but decoders in AVRS do not decode accurately)

 
I would disagree with 3 if that was your intended meaning. My understanding is that Dolby True HD and DTS HDMA are bit for bit lossless, and decoders typically are bit for bit accurate. I would liken the extent of accuracy to a zip file. Once uncompressed, a zip file is bit for bit identical with the uncompressed original from which it was created.

#192 Chopsus

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 10:49 PM

LPCM ... Yes
1. Yes ... If so there would be a reason
2. Are they?
3. Yes and I have found this on a Yamaha, Marantz and integra ... I doubt it is machine specific.

There has been discussion of this before (on several forums) and the conclusions (iirc) were LPCM is the best bet.

#193 MLXXX

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 11:05 PM

There has been discussion of this before (on several forums) and the conclusions (iirc) were LPCM is the best bet.

I have not seen such discussion myself (edit: well I have seen a claim or two but no definitive conclusion as to a difference). Most of the discussion I have seen is to the effect that the decoding is bit for bit accurate. I tend to go to HydrogenAudio forum for technical audio matters.

On thing that can sometimes arise with Blu-ray movies and multiple main sound tracks; the LPCM version is sometimes at a lower bit depth (only 16 bits) and uses dither. I recall that being the case with Spiderman 3.* That is a whole argument in itself!: whether at ordinary listening levels anyone can hear a difference between 24 bits and 16 bits noise-shaped dithered from 24 bits [at a sample rate of 48kHz or higher].

________

* See my post from 2008 where I compared sound tracks of Spiderman 3: http://www.dtvforum....dead/?p=1232310


Edited by MLXXX, 03 February 2015 - 12:55 AM.


#194 Chopsus

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 06:48 AM

I'm sure a search or two will reveal such discussions.
My comments relate my experience with those Blu Ray Audio discs that have three (or two) tracks.

#195 STAINLESS

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 10:11 AM

 

Some of these the problem is a deliberate klutz to try to complicate piracy (yeah, like that really works) - the rest of the time it's just cheap@rse studios handing out disc authoring to the lowest cost "expert".

 

Smashing out Smells Like Teen Spirit @0db then deafened by a high pitch screetch when the next track kicks in.

Absolutely unacceptable in my book. We spend a lot of money on this gear.

Get it right FFS.



#196 HomerJ

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 07:07 PM

My lastest Blu-ray Audio just arrived: Steven Wilson "Hand. Cannot. Erase."

Hires 5.1 and stereo tracks. Pretty damn good after just one listen. As usual a superb surround mix and great fidelity. It's an interesting mix of music too. Highly recommended:



I suspect he will tour Oz playing this as he did with his 2013 album: The Raven that Refused to Sing...

Edited by HomerJ, 05 March 2015 - 07:15 PM.