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Get The Best Reception, Southern Wa


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#76 alanh

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 02:06 PM

Domni,
Tingledale is 78 km from the Mt Barker transmitters at a bearing of 64 degrees with respect to true north. If you have significant hills or trees from your site in that direction it may not be worth using FM. You also may need a masthead amplifier, however try the 8 element FM antenna first.

AlanH

#77 kendenupian

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 04:56 PM

You should receive a good signal from Mt Barker abc fm transmitters. They are all 10 Kilowatt . (I just conducted their monthly check 5 minutes ago..)
Most seem good for 120 kms, depending on terrain.
Hot FM has a different antenna which seems to favour the south. Its license area is smaller i think.
The vast sat decoder has audio out so you wouldnt need to have the TV on..
Good luck anyway.


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#78 alanh

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 05:21 PM

kendenupian,
So when you include antenna gain you are radiating 80 kWerp each!

The TV would have to be an audio amplifier unless the satellite receiver is connected to an audio amplifier as well.

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#79 kendenupian

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 08:36 PM

kendenupian,
So when you include antenna gain you are radiating 80 kWerp each!

The TV would have to be an audio amplifier unless the satellite receiver is connected to an audio amplifier as well.

AlanH



I was going to include the word input but thought better of it...

#80 domi

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 06:13 PM

Alanh and Kendenupian,

Thanks for that. My old analogue antenna and masthead amplifier was pointing at Walpole/Denmark?? and GWN came in rather well and ABC sometimes in black and white. Like my neighbours I gave up and set up a sat dish. FM radio was achieved via FM/TV splitter box.

VAST will not come in, or so I believe, until the end of 2013 in our area. Have a Strong SRT 4653x sat decoder, which has "coaxial S/PDIF digital audio output". My micro stereo system has an MP3 input via a stereo plug or USB, is this of any use?

As both of you seem to have a black belt in electrickery, you may be able to answer this question: If my stereo is no good for connection, what is the cheapest way to connect to this sat decoder and get digital radio via sat?

I want to get rid of my old huge vertical polarization antenna + masthead amp; have left it on the roof so my wife can listen to ABC Classic FM. Although it touches the metal roof with its rods, the thing still works for FM.

Thanks.

#81 Smacca

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 06:50 PM

VAST will not come in, or so I believe, until the end of 2013 in our area.

VAST is available to you now, but only the ABC and SBS services. The commercial channels may never be available to you if you're within Albany's terrestrial footprint. Too early to know this for sure, so best sticking with Aurora for now.

Have a Strong SRT 4653x sat decoder, which has "coaxial S/PDIF digital audio output". My micro stereo system has an MP3 input via a stereo plug or USB, is this of any use?

I'd be tapping into the stereo output on the Strong using an adapter (male stereo composite to male stereo headphone) and plug it into your micro system.

As both of you seem to have a black belt in electrickery, you may be able to answer this question: If my stereo is no good for connection, what is the cheapest way to connect to this sat decoder and get digital radio via sat?

There really isn't a stand-alone satellite radio option that would work with Aurora stations. The best way is similar to your micro system, but instead using a set of decent computer speakers (with subwoofer, it's not Classic FM for nothing) plus an adapter (male stereo composite to female headphone socket). Sound during TV or radio is better than the standard TV speakers, and radio can be listened to with the TV off. If you want completely seperate radio maybe in the kitchen or the shed, then you might be able to get away with an AV sender, using another set of computer speakers as the output. This limits the choice of radio stations to 1 for every location, so it's not the best. But I'm sure you're aware of the limitations with cabled radio.

Edited by Smacca, 19 February 2011 - 06:58 PM.


#82 alanh

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 02:00 AM

domi,
It is expected that the VAST service will be available to viewers in Western Australia from early 2011.
In a table further down, it says to be confirmed.

As far as VAST is concerned you will get the right to use it because you are already on Aurora. Additionally you are in a very weak signal area.

Does this affect existing Remote Area Broadcast Satellite (RABS) viewers? Yes, between now and the end of 2013 you will need to obtain a new VAST set top box. The analogue RABS service will cease broadcasts to coincide with the switch over to Digital by December 2013.

Will ABC services from other states be available on VAST as they are now on RABS?
Yes, ABC VAST viewers will receive all ABC Digital television services including those from other states. Local ABC Digital television services will be number 2, 21, 22, 23 and 24. ABC services from other states start at channel number 221 and above.


Your existing antenna pointed at Mt Barker is designed for channels 2, 9, 28 and 31. If you wish you can rotate your antenna into the horizontal position for FM because the FM transmitters transmit a horizontal and a vertically polarised signal. This should stop the elements touching your metal roof.

digital_radio/review_of_digital_radio_technologies_for_regional_australia

AlanH

#83 domi

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 01:43 PM

Alanh and smacca,

Thanks for replies. I rang the number listed for info on 'digitalready' and spoke to a knowledgable person. The announcement re commercial channels will be made in March 2011.

According to Silicon Chips and my humble opinion it is an insult for us not to get 1080p signals and MPEG4 transmissions as the commercial TV stations just had a $250 mio windfall from reduced licence fees and should we not get the commercial channels via sat, that would be an even greater insult. Most of our TVs are 1080p capable. Politicians seem to know that the media are kingmakers/breakers and are touching their forelock to them. Perhaps we need to lobby our politicians on that issue, Bob Catter might be a good advocate!

Mt Barker is probably sending a digital signal and therefore VAST is available for us as the ruling is that VAST will become available when the analogue signal is switched off. I believe I have always received a bad and analogue signal from the Denmark/Walpole?? repeater.

The chap from 'digitalready' also told me the reason for the UEC monopoly on the VAST sat decoders. Hills have bought the monopoly rights and UEC is manufacturing these $270 boxes. Why a monopoly? The market is just not big enough was the answer.

Thanks for the answer re the radio reception and with the precise description of the cable I can buy the correct item.

#84 domi

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 09:17 AM

Hi,

 

Help! After absence my Satking says: No strength, quality 25. Location Tingledale, North Walpole, edge of sat footprint. Go twice on roof to tighten guy wires, finally get permanent (?) strength 85, quality 45.

 

Problems: Can get SBS Tasmania OK or some other stations without dropout/pixellation but not ABC WA at all, "No Signal". Beeping during signal finding option works on or off at random. On bad stations I get signal strength 85 going to zero and back up again to 85. Signal changes despite it being wind still so dish is in the same position.

 

Is it bad weather on the sat uplink at the moment that is causing my random reception? The Satking also has the nasty habit of rebooting compared to an earlier UEC.

 

Without TV I am forced to talk to my wife, she seems to be a nice person! Help!



#85 Tazzy2Heads

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 10:46 AM

Hi Domi
Is this vast system a DIY ?
If you are tightening up guy wires that would be enough to pull the dish out of the sat signal, 2/3 mm of movement will do it
either up or down or left or right.
cheers Tazzy

#86 domi

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 02:11 PM

Hi Tazzy,

 

Yesterday I managed to get a fairly permanent strength 85/50 signal but no connection this morning. The wind has not pushed the dish out of direction at the mounts and with the guy wires I manage to "fine tune" the strength. But as I said before, when I have a signal sometimes an Eastern states channel will come thru clear, while ABC WA and other stations drop out.

 

Have spoken to one neighbour and he also has problems with ABC WA but still gets as signal, I get none since this morning. Will try to find first and talk to another neighbour, who has used this forum before. His name is Alex. 



#87 Tazzy2Heads

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 03:04 PM

Hi Domi
How long ago has it been since it was all ok ?
What channels did you get then ?
Do you have a 10700 lnb?
It's signal quality you need to improve, the strength at 85 should be ok.
What size dish do you have, Foxtel size or smaller?
Have you tried rotating the lnb slightly left or right in the mounting with someone watching the quality on the tv ?
cheers Tazzy

#88 domi

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 06:00 PM

Hi Tazzy,

 

Thanks for reply. Could not talk to neighbour Alex with his three dishes but spoke to another neighbour, who told me a Denmark sat man changed two of his LNBs already. Could be a LNB problem or a corroded connector.

 

To answer your questions:

All OK with occasional dropouts and reboots one month ago. Unit was not used for one month but have "rehit" the box.

Got all channels as far as I remember.

Yes, 10700 LNB.

Quality has gone higher than 50 yesterday, I never had TV quality problems before with even lower quality values. It is the strength which jumped from 85 to zero but is zero now. Yesterday I had a steady 85.

Dish is 85 cm from memory, a now rusty Strong dish from iTechworld. Only severe rain gave me problems before, so dish is adequate. Just rusting away at the mounting brackets.

Skew could not have changed and is the correct 2?? deg. according to the Satking menu.

It is a DIY installation, to answer an earlier question.



#89 Tazzy2Heads

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:49 PM

Hi Domi
If you have the correct size dish properly aligned up and no trees on the edge of the signal and no faults in your system you should not be having
any drop outs more than once or twice a year and only for a minute or two at the most during heavy cloud and/or rain in the up link
path to the sat.or down to your area.
If you are dropping signal completely by the sat box signal meter there is a fault some where in the system,it could be
1.a faulty LNB,unlikely but possible
2.a faulty reciever,even more unlikely but possible
3.a faulty cable or connector at the ends, likely if as you say it is a DIY install,dodgy connectors are a major problem in DIY tv
installs whether FTA or Sat. tv.
If you have used 'F' connectors that screw onto the cable ends I would redo them if you can and make sure about 1mm or 2mm of
the center conductor is sticking out past the plug face and that the braid is folded back over the black to make a positive screw on
connection with no strands of braid touching the center conductor.
Once you power up the reciever to on ,a voltage is sent to the LNB and a signal from the LNB should show up on the signal strength
meter showing about 65 to 75+ reading this is showing that the LNB is working only ,nothing to do with the satellite signal recieved
no signal showing something is wrong possibly LNB faulty
When you have a signal quality reading of 60/75+ as well as the a good signal strength reading you should have good pictures with a
Sat King box that are stable
Not sure what you mean by Eastern State signals, presumably you are talking about an ABC or SBS channel, you won't get any
Eastern State commercial channels when your in WA,likewise we can't watch WA commercial here in the East only the ABC and SBS
channels from the West.
If the box has been registered for all channels you should get all the networks they let you have in WA if the dish is aligned
up to C1/D3 with a good signal quality.Even with the dish off line you should not have a no signal reading at the box I would think
If you hold an WORKING LNB in your hand and connect it to a Satellite meter you see a signal strength reading of 60/70, but
of course no signal infomation from a dish so no signal quality reading,just a quick and dirty way of checking an LNB.
Hope that epistle helps a bit.
cheers Tazzy

#90 domi

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 09:22 AM

Thanks, Tazzy for the comprehensive explanation.

Problems:

Tall trees possible in line with sat despite a dish being 2m above roof line. On this forum I was told not to worry as the sat signal comes from even higher than the line-of-sight suggests?

Signal meter is in Perth and I am in the bush.

At one stage with a permanent 75/50 signal I could not get ABC WA but could get ABC TAS or ABC NSW, now that is strange.

"LNB water ingress" leads to 260,000 hits with Google; number does not say much but during my installation I now remember I ignored that advice to seal it. As it talked about a special sealant and not the common silicon sealant (roof) I had I did not seal.  Question is if professional installers seal the connection?

Will go on the roof again and fiddle with the alignment and also have a look at the LNB coax connector and try to find the gold fish?

The Satking seems to have frequent rebooting fits compared to the UEC box, which had power supply problems.

 

We are at the moment surviving with videos. ABC Classic FM is the only radio station despite a FM antenna, so we are living without extensive news at the moment. 



#91 Tazzy2Heads

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 12:02 AM

Hi Domi
Now the guy wire bit makes some sence, why is the dish 2m off the roof, did you just take off the FTA antenna and fit the dish in place
of it ?
You are making it very hard for yourself I think , it must be very hard to do any adjustment to the dish.you really need to make it easy on
your self and fit it to a proper satellite roof mount like what Foxtel use, it is much easier to work on and is rock steady with
the stay arms and once set up will give you a trouble free installation.A new dish and roof mount is not that expensive,next time you are
in the big smoke it would be worth looking into or getting one from the local sat tv man.You maybe able to get an ex Foxtel one from
somewhere, tip maybe.
Yes the LNB is out of the way of the pick up of the signal by the design of the dish in theory.So the signal angle is steeper than
the dish angle,so trees can be reasonbly close in if they are not too high.How far away are the trees ?
Yes water may have worked its way through the connector thread and corroded the cable connection,worth looking at, don't fall
off roof . The F connectors we use are a compression crimp on and have a small rubber sealing ring at the base of the thread to seal
things up. Some installers rely on that to keep the water out others put self amalgamating rubber Nitto No 11 tape over the connector
as well. I use the rubber tape as well, seems to keep the water out ok you only need one overlapping layer otherwise its hard to get off
You could have used a bit of silicon it would have been better than nothing.
If the 50 in your signal readings is the Quality reading it is not good enough for reliable signals, you need to get it up to around
65+ or better and you should get all the channels available.
If I remember right SAT KING did a over the air down load for a while a year or so back to update the box software to fix a drop
out problem, it may be worth a phone call to where you got your box, they may be able to send you a usb stick to do it.

How are the in depth conversations with the misses going ?ha
cheers Tazzy

#92 domi

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 09:13 AM

Hi Tazzy,

 

One monstrous swamp mahogany is too close for comfort and in a 30m distance is a tall gum from our plantation. This is why I put it on a pole. You are correct in assuming the tiny movements caused by the wind may mess up the alignment. Or is it the swaying of the branches? Pipe stays may look ugly on the roof as they will be rather long, I will see what happens after my repair.

 

The wet weather in North Walpole has rusted holes into the mounting brackets. Thanks for the tip re Satking update.

 

Next time I am armed with a ladder to cut branches and have the signal meter handy plus a new LNB to be sure, to be sure. My wife gets grumpy not having her dose of ABC 24 news. First you sink in her arms, then you have your arms in the sink!



#93 Tazzy2Heads

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 09:31 AM

Hi Domi,
It could be the wind on the dish if there is movement but it sounds like it is reasonably solid,only a few leaves waving through the signal path
can cause pixelating problems so maybe it is tree growth over time now causing issues.
The stay arms I was refering to were the adjustable ones on the normal Foxtel roof mounts, they are not that visible because the
mount pipe is only about half a metre high.
Can you move the dish further along the roof away from the trees or ground mount it on a concreted in steel post even further away from the
trees? otherwise you will be having this grief every few years as the tree grows unless of course the tree fell down ha ha.
Good luck with it
cheers Tazzy

#94 domi

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 12:45 PM

Thanks Tazzy. Will buy a new LNB and take a ladder to cut a branch or the entire tree, wish me luck! Also will take the signal meter to check if the old one still works as the water may have gotten in.

Will let the forum know once we are back in Tingledale (North Walpole) what happened so everybody can learn from my mistakes! There is also a local sat person I can contact if my patience runs out and should I win lotto on the meantime.

 

Cheers

dom