Jump to content


Photo

Get The Best Reception, Hunter Valley


  • Please log in to reply
228 replies to this topic

#176 M'bozo

M'bozo

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 2,778 posts

Posted 27 November 2011 - 07:38 AM

Or maybe I should just trim off the VHF elements, see how well the remaining UHF elements perform without them?


Sounds to me like the antenna needs upgrading.


Should the problem occur due to rain/dew what would be the solution?


This is the answer I would give as well:

Best way to find out whats wrong AT YOUR PARTICULAR PLACE is to get out an antenna installer that has a digital meter. :)


Only one way to know for sure.

#177 jaytv

jaytv

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • 15 posts

Posted 02 January 2012 - 08:13 PM

Hi,

May I ask... what could be the reason for very bad pixelation on most channels at night, generally on the cooler nights. During the day there is only the occasional pixelation, but as the night starts to cool the pixelation gets worse.

We do have a lot of trees around and do not have 'line of sight' Sugarloaf

The antenna is quite old 8-10yrs & also uses a masthead amplifier.

Could the antenna need replacing ?

Thanks in advanced.

#178 Tazzy2Heads

Tazzy2Heads

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 303 posts

Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:20 PM

Hi,

May I ask... what could be the reason for very bad pixelation on most channels at night, generally on the cooler nights. During the day there is only the occasional pixelation, but as the night starts to cool the pixelation gets worse.

We do have a lot of trees around and do not have 'line of sight' Sugarloaf

The antenna is quite old 8-10yrs & also uses a masthead amplifier.

Could the antenna need replacing ?

Thanks in advanced.

Hi 'jaytv',
The reason for bad pixelation is normally a poor QUALITY SIGNAL at the end of the antenna lead that plugs into the Digital Receiver or Digital Tv.
There are many things that can cause the poor signal, which sounds like it is near the 'signal cliff edge' during the day and 'over the edge' at night or
when the air cools down, it is only when you are on the job with a proper Digital Signal Meter that can measure signal Quality among other things are you
going to find out where the problems are in the installation.
It could simply be a faulty fly lead from the wall to the tv or a faulty wall outlet, or a faulty masthead amplifier or power supply unit.
It may be tree growth over a period of time, UHF signals don't go through trees as well as VHF particularly when damp or wet.
The antenna may need relocating to a better spot or replacing with a stronger or different type.
The cable and/or any splitters may need upgrading, the TV may need the tuning checked to make sure it is tuning to the right channels for your area and
antenna direction.
All these things can be checked by an installer with the right gear and knowledge for your area.
Good luck and Happy New Year Tazzy.

#179 GlennP

GlennP

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 728 posts

Posted 03 January 2012 - 06:56 AM

Hi,

May I ask... what could be the reason for very bad pixelation on most channels at night, generally on the cooler nights. During the day there is only the occasional pixelation, but as the night starts to cool the pixelation gets worse.

We do have a lot of trees around and do not have 'line of sight' Sugarloaf

The antenna is quite old 8-10yrs & also uses a masthead amplifier.

Could the antenna need replacing ?

Thanks in advanced.

Could be anything, you haven't said exactly where you are?
How long has this been happening? If only recently, 4-6 weeks, could well be you have low/poor signals to start with & are getting impulse noise interference from flashing christmas lights in your surrounding area? If it stops when people turn their christmas light off, you know that's the problem, either way, you're best off to get a reputable antenna installer out to do some tests & see what's going on & get you a better signal, thus reception.

#180 jaytv

jaytv

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • 15 posts

Posted 03 January 2012 - 10:39 AM

Tazzy2heads & GlennP, thanks for your replies. I think I will take your advise and get an installer out to have a look. however I would still like to try an understand the reasoning behind this problem.

The problem has only started happening the last 2 weeks, no problems during the day, but as soon as the sun goes downs quality will progressively get worse. I am located in a rural area surrounded with a heap of trees, which I think could be the issue as you mentioned. I am about 35km from Sugarloaf, with a couple of valleys and mountain ranges to contend with. I belive I am in a weak/poor signal area due to the landscape

The signal is split between 2 outlets via a splitter and the issue is the same at both outlets at the same time.

How exactly does the temperture affect the signal ?
Would a higher gain antenna be any advantage ?

Thanks again.

#181 GlennP

GlennP

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 728 posts

Posted 03 January 2012 - 11:44 AM

Tazzy2heads & GlennP, thanks for your replies. I think I will take your advise and get an installer out to have a look. however I would still like to try an understand the reasoning behind this problem.

The problem has only started happening the last 2 weeks, no problems during the day, but as soon as the sun goes downs quality will progressively get worse. I am located in a rural area surrounded with a heap of trees, which I think could be the issue as you mentioned. I am about 35km from Sugarloaf, with a couple of valleys and mountain ranges to contend with. I belive I am in a weak/poor signal area due to the landscape

The signal is split between 2 outlets via a splitter and the issue is the same at both outlets at the same time.

How exactly does the temperture affect the signal ?
Would a higher gain antenna be any advantage ?

Thanks again.

Temperature refracts (bends) the signal differently in cold or warm/hot temperatures. Your signal may well be reflecting off the hills & around the valleys, not a direct signal from the transmitter, & the differing temperatures may be bending the signals differently to normal?
Have you been using any flashing christmas lights?
A higher gain antenna would likely be better, but moving your antenna, even as little as 10cm up/down or side to side can make a huge difference either better or worse, you really need a good installer with a digital meter that can read & understand all the measurements.

The last couple of weeks has seen strong FM radio & TV signals traveling to areas they normally don't reach anywhere near, Far North Queensland to Melbourne, Brisbane/Sunshine Coast to Adelaide & reverse, plus many other places in between, New Zealand TV & radio has been coming into the East Coast States too in the last few weeks, East Timor & Samoa Pacific Islands radio has been coming into Southern NSW as well, I've also had a report of NZ TV into Fremantle WA briefly.
You could be quite easily be getting interference from anywhere at the moment, that's not normally there, you may find this problem you have disappears as quickly as it came, without you doing anything, but until you get someone to have a look, you won't know, it's all just speculation.

#182 jaytv

jaytv

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • 15 posts

Posted 03 January 2012 - 03:41 PM

Temperature refracts (bends) the signal differently in cold or warm/hot temperatures. Your signal may well be reflecting off the hills & around the valleys, not a direct signal from the transmitter, & the differing temperatures may be bending the signals differently to normal?
Have you been using any flashing christmas lights?
A higher gain antenna would likely be better, but moving your antenna, even as little as 10cm up/down or side to side can make a huge difference either better or worse, you really need a good installer with a digital meter that can read & understand all the measurements.

The last couple of weeks has seen strong FM radio & TV signals traveling to areas they normally don't reach anywhere near, Far North Queensland to Melbourne, Brisbane/Sunshine Coast to Adelaide & reverse, plus many other places in between, New Zealand TV & radio has been coming into the East Coast States too in the last few weeks, East Timor & Samoa Pacific Islands radio has been coming into Southern NSW as well, I've also had a report of NZ TV into Fremantle WA briefly.
You could be quite easily be getting interference from anywhere at the moment, that's not normally there, you may find this problem you have disappears as quickly as it came, without you doing anything, but until you get someone to have a look, you won't know, it's all just speculation.


Thankyou for the detailed information, much appreicated....

Wow ! NZ to WA

I'll get an installer out and get some reading done.

Thanks again.

#183 Tazzy2Heads

Tazzy2Heads

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 303 posts

Posted 03 January 2012 - 10:55 PM

Thankyou for the detailed information, much appreicated....

Wow ! NZ to WA

I'll get an installer out and get some reading done.

Thanks again.

Hi 'jaytv'
If your signal problems are not caused by something in your installation, Glennp could be on the money with signal ducting caused by temperature
inversion up and down the coast being the problem. If you have a clearer outlook to the south rather than to Mt Sugarloaf you could be getting interference signals up
the coast from the Illawarra Knights Hill transmitters which uses some the same channels as Mt Sugarloaf which in its self is part of a single frequency
network (SFN) I think. Signal ducting on the UHF and VHF bands is common in the summer and it sounds like there has been some good ones lately.
A local installer who works every day in the industry with a bit of experience will have come across this before and should know what steps to take to avoid
it happening if possible at your place. One remote thing to check for is too strong a signal if the amp is a powerful one, as this shows up as pixelation the
same as poor signal quality which a signal meter will reveal.
Cheers Tazzy.

#184 jaytv

jaytv

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • 15 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:05 AM

Hi 'jaytv'
If your signal problems are not caused by something in your installation, Glennp could be on the money with signal ducting caused by temperature
inversion up and down the coast being the problem. If you have a clearer outlook to the south rather than to Mt Sugarloaf you could be getting interference signals up
the coast from the Illawarra Knights Hill transmitters which uses some the same channels as Mt Sugarloaf which in its self is part of a single frequency
network (SFN) I think. Signal ducting on the UHF and VHF bands is common in the summer and it sounds like there has been some good ones lately.
A local installer who works every day in the industry with a bit of experience will have come across this before and should know what steps to take to avoid
it happening if possible at your place. One remote thing to check for is too strong a signal if the amp is a powerful one, as this shows up as pixelation the
same as poor signal quality which a signal meter will reveal.
Cheers Tazzy.


Hi Tazzy
I was thinking about the "too strong a signal" from the amp you mentioned.

My current setup is this..
Antenna (Phased Array) >> Masthead Amp >> 4 way splitter (with power pass)
Splitter Outlet 1 >> Amp Power Supply >> TV (with built in HD Tuner)
Splitter Outlet 2 >> Wall Plate >> HD-STB
Splitter Outlet 3 >> Terminated Cap
Splitter Outlet 4 >> Terminated Cap
Had poor quality on all channels except SBS. This was at about 6:30pm. Progressively getting worse as it got later. Signal quality was going between 50-80%. During the day, qual

I tried this yesterday...
Antenna >> HD-STB
I had a length of Quad shield coax (about 11m new never used) and ran it directly from the antenna down the roof in through the door to the STB, by passing everything.
With this setup, I had EXCELLENT quality on TEN, SBS, Prime...but completely lost NBN & ABC, I got a "no signal" screen for all of the NBN & ABC channels.... Then when the amp was connected again, all channels were back but very poor quality, not watchable.

Any thoughts ?

#185 Tazzy2Heads

Tazzy2Heads

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 303 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:36 AM

Hi Tazzy
I was thinking about the "too strong a signal" from the amp you mentioned.

My current setup is this..
Antenna (Phased Array) >> Masthead Amp >> 4 way splitter (with power pass)
Splitter Outlet 1 >> Amp Power Supply >> TV (with built in HD Tuner)
Splitter Outlet 2 >> Wall Plate >> HD-STB
Splitter Outlet 3 >> Terminated Cap
Splitter Outlet 4 >> Terminated Cap
Had poor quality on all channels except SBS. This was at about 6:30pm. Progressively getting worse as it got later. Signal quality was going between 50-80%. During the day, qual

I tried this yesterday...
Antenna >> HD-STB
I had a length of Quad shield coax (about 11m new never used) and ran it directly from the antenna down the roof in through the door to the STB, by passing everything.
With this setup, I had EXCELLENT quality on TEN, SBS, Prime...but completely lost NBN & ABC, I got a "no signal" screen for all of the NBN & ABC channels.... Then when the amp was connected again, all channels were back but very poor quality, not watchable.

Any thoughts ?

Put the amp and its power supply onto the new direct cable bypassing the splitter and if the amp is adjustable (small trimpots inside cover) turn them down
for starters see what you get and adjust gain in small amounts if you think its needed. The splitter could be changed to a 2way if only 2 legs are needed
bearing in mind this will INCREASE your signal at the outlets by 2-3 db depending whether VHF or UHF, and a 3db gain is doubling your signal or a 3db loss
is halving your signal , so a 34db amp is a big increase in wanted and unwanted signals depending on what antenna you have and the filtering in the amp.
What type and model amp is it ?
If you have improved your signal on some channels by bypassing the amp and splitter and existing cables it looks like there could be a fault in the system
there not signal overload as the problem .Until the signals are measured with a meter and the antenna seen to be the correct one and located correctly it is only guess work and trial and error. Go one step at a time and remember the signal meter in the tv or set top box is only a guide usually and is probably
telling you the signal level after the tuner has done its error correction and has little indication of the true signal at the antenna itself, that's why we have
expensive meters to take out the guess work most of the time.If you have lost NBN and ABC you really need the signals measured to see if there is a big
difference in signal strength and quality at the antenna to see if its caused by antenna type, height , direction or antenna location or the terrain, in relation
to transmitter site for your area. Is the tv tuned to the correct ABC and NBN channels for your antenna and area ? I think MT Sugarloaf is all UHF Digital without checking ? so you should have all networks on the same antenna I would have thought, do you have 1 or 2 antennas in two different directions ?
Its been a couple of years since I've been to the rellees in Port Stevens so I forget who's what up there as far as the Networks go !
Cheers Tazzy

#186 jaytv

jaytv

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • 15 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:41 AM

Put the amp and its power supply onto the new direct cable bypassing the splitter and if the amp is adjustable (small trimpots inside cover) turn them down
for starters see what you get and adjust gain in small amounts if you think its needed. The splitter could be changed to a 2way if only 2 legs are needed
bearing in mind this will INCREASE your signal at the outlets by 2-3 db depending whether VHF or UHF, and a 3db gain is doubling your signal or a 3db loss
is halving your signal , so a 34db amp is a big increase in wanted and unwanted signals depending on what antenna you have and the filtering in the amp.
What type and model amp is it ?
If you have improved your signal on some channels by bypassing the amp and splitter and existing cables it looks like there could be a fault in the system
there not signal overload as the problem .Until the signals are measured with a meter and the antenna seen to be the correct one and located correctly it is only guess work and trial and error. Go one step at a time and remember the signal meter in the tv or set top box is only a guide usually and is probably
telling you the signal level after the tuner has done its error correction and has little indication of the true signal at the antenna itself, that's why we have
expensive meters to take out the guess work most of the time.If you have lost NBN and ABC you really need the signals measured to see if there is a big
difference in signal strength and quality at the antenna to see if its caused by antenna type, height , direction or antenna location or the terrain, in relation
to transmitter site for your area. Is the tv tuned to the correct ABC and NBN channels for your antenna and area ? I think MT Sugarloaf is all UHF Digital without checking ? so you should have all networks on the same antenna I would have thought, do you have 1 or 2 antennas in two different directions ?
Its been a couple of years since I've been to the rellees in Port Stevens so I forget who's what up there as far as the Networks go !
Cheers Tazzy


Hey Tazzy, thanks for your replies ! I'm hoping to get the signals measured next week, but in the mean time I'd like to keep tinkering to see if I can diagnos the problem.

The amp is a Johansson (it's about 8yrs old) I'm not sure of the model (will check when I'm up there next) but it's UHF/VHF with Fm trap and 34dB gain (IN1 UHF Seperate + IN2 UHF/VHF Combined + OUT). Black box with slide up cover, with the amp & PCB in a metal box. The power supply is 22v PAL connections.

The antenna is a WISI EE06 and I did a re-scan to make sure the correct channels were picked up. Also I only have the 1 anenna on the roof.

I will try as you suggested and run a direct cable from the Amp >> Power Supply >> STB (by passing the splitter) and start with the gain in the lowest position...should I do a re-scan of the channels before adjusting the gain ?

Also, does it make any difference if the splitter is on the 'tv side' (as opposed to the antenna side) of the amp power supply or is that the purpose of the power pass ?

Thanks again.

Edited by jaytv, 05 January 2012 - 11:46 AM.


#187 Tazzy2Heads

Tazzy2Heads

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 303 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:03 PM

Hey Tazzy, thanks for your replies ! I'm hoping to get the signals measured next week, but in the mean time I'd like to keep tinkering to see if I can diagnos the problem.

The amp is a Johansson (it's about 8yrs old) I'm not sure of the model (will check when I'm up there next) but it's UHF/VHF with Fm trap and 34dB gain (IN1 UHF Seperate + IN2 UHF/VHF Combined + OUT). Black box with slide up cover, with the amp & PCB in a metal box. The power supply is 22v PAL connections.

The antenna is a WISI EE06 and I did a re-scan to make sure the correct channels were picked up. Also I only have the 1 anenna on the roof.

I will try as you suggested and run a direct cable from the Amp >> Power Supply >> STB (by passing the splitter) and start with the gain in the lowest position...should I do a re-scan of the channels before adjusting the gain ?

Also, does it make any difference if the splitter is on the 'tv side' (as opposed to the antenna side) of the amp power supply or is that the purpose of the power pass ?

Thanks again.

The amp should be within around 1or2 meters of the antenna to have best quality signal into it, the splitter should normally be after the amp so the amplified
signal goes down to each outlet through cables around the same length to each outlet to keep approximately the same signal level at each outlet if the house construction allows it to be done though this is not too critical.The power pack to supply the amp should be in the room with the outlet connected to the AC/DC power pass port on the splitter. The adjustment range to the UHF signal is about 10db I think on that amp, so turned to minimum will still be
around 24db gain on a 34db UHF amp which is still quite a bit of gain for Digital signals. I presume the polarity of the antenna mounting is correct for
Mt Sugarloaf if you are certain that's where your signals are coming from, the polarity is Horizontal. You may be able to turn the direction of or raise or
lower the antenna a bit to get the ABC and NBN to lock and still have enough quality on the other channels for them to be ok. It is not unusual to have
some variation of signals when you don't have line of site to the transmitters and have trees and hills in the way reflecting and scattering the signals.
That's why you need a Meter to see what's going on with the Quality from the antenna down to the end of the flylead.
I would do a Factory Default Reset to clear any previous possible incorrect channels and then do a retune with no booster in line, then with the booster
connected and powered depending on what you find the first time. You should have all your channels at the antenna, the booster should be only used to
make up for splitter and cable losses etc, it needs a good signal in to give you a good quality boosted signal out for the MAGIC to happen at the walloutlets
Goodluck Tazzy.

#188 jaytv

jaytv

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • 15 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:16 PM

The amp should be within around 1or2 meters of the antenna to have best quality signal into it, the splitter should normally be after the amp so the amplified
signal goes down to each outlet through cables around the same length to each outlet to keep approximately the same signal level at each outlet if the house construction allows it to be done though this is not too critical.The power pack to supply the amp should be in the room with the outlet connected to the AC/DC power pass port on the splitter. The adjustment range to the UHF signal is about 10db I think on that amp, so turned to minimum will still be
around 24db gain on a 34db UHF amp which is still quite a bit of gain for Digital signals. I presume the polarity of the antenna mounting is correct for
Mt Sugarloaf if you are certain that's where your signals are coming from, the polarity is Horizontal. You may be able to turn the direction of or raise or
lower the antenna a bit to get the ABC and NBN to lock and still have enough quality on the other channels for them to be ok. It is not unusual to have
some variation of signals when you don't have line of site to the transmitters and have trees and hills in the way reflecting and scattering the signals.
That's why you need a Meter to see what's going on with the Quality from the antenna down to the end of the flylead.
I would do a Factory Default Reset to clear any previous possible incorrect channels and then do a retune with no booster in line, then with the booster
connected and powered depending on what you find the first time. You should have all your channels at the antenna, the booster should be only used to
make up for splitter and cable losses etc, it needs a good signal in to give you a good quality boosted signal out for the MAGIC to happen at the walloutlets
Goodluck Tazzy.


I think I'm getting somewhere... Firstly, I had everything setup as you described above and polarity is correct.

I tried as you said... Amp >> Amp power supply >> STB by passing the splitter and adjusting the gain up down, this didn't seem to make any difference, I had all the channels but all where pixelated..... Also, I checked the amp and the UHF gain is 20-40.

I then tried... Antenna >> STB (direct line from antenna to receiver) eliminating the amp & splitter then I did a rescan and managed to get all channels, although the prime channels came up as unknown, but could still view them. Seemed to get a lot better signal without the amp, but this is before a splitter is added. So I think the amp was giving too strong a signal as you suggested. I then tried adding the splitter (the power pass one but with now power connected), but when the splitter was added I lost all the Prime channels, but all other channels were perfect......would a better quality splitter help with this ?

So from here, I'm going to replace all the existing cable to all outlets with the cable I've been using for this testing... on closer inspection of the existing cabling I can't seem to tell if it's Quad shield in parts, so if it's not I maybe losing signal strength down the cabling ? Doing this I will a least know that I have Quad Shield throughout.

If I get any further I will post back.

Thanks

#189 Tazzy2Heads

Tazzy2Heads

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 303 posts

Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:57 PM

I think I'm getting somewhere... Firstly, I had everything setup as you described above and polarity is correct.

I tried as you said... Amp >> Amp power supply >> STB by passing the splitter and adjusting the gain up down, this didn't seem to make any difference, I had all the channels but all where pixelated..... Also, I checked the amp and the UHF gain is 20-40.

I then tried... Antenna >> STB (direct line from antenna to receiver) eliminating the amp & splitter then I did a rescan and managed to get all channels, although the prime channels came up as unknown, but could still view them. Seemed to get a lot better signal without the amp, but this is before a splitter is added. So I think the amp was giving too strong a signal as you suggested. I then tried adding the splitter (the power pass one but with now power connected), but when the splitter was added I lost all the Prime channels, but all other channels were perfect......would a better quality splitter help with this ?

So from here, I'm going to replace all the existing cable to all outlets with the cable I've been using for this testing... on closer inspection of the existing cabling I can't seem to tell if it's Quad shield in parts, so if it's not I maybe losing signal strength down the cabling ? Doing this I will a least know that I have Quad Shield throughout.

If I get any further I will post back.

Thanks

Sounds like the amp or power supply may be crook , not sure how your connecting/testing with amp in line and splitter connected .A good splitter in line
shouldn't make you loose channels with a good amp working unless the Signal Quality is very poor or you are not using the power passing connection
for the power pack outlet at the splitter.When testing for pictures without the amp you have to disconnect and bypass the amp at the antenna not just only
unplug the power pack at the wall outlet, as the amp won't pass any signal at all if you just turn off or unplug the power supply unit.If you have a multimeter you can check to see if there is around 22v AC at the end of the cable the connects up at the amp to see if power is getting to the amp via the
cables and splitter connections . If you have any short circuits on the connections the power pack will shut down stopping the booster until the short circuit
is removed and it should power up again.All will be revealed when the man with the Meter turns up

#190 jaytv

jaytv

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • 15 posts

Posted 06 January 2012 - 08:19 AM

Sounds like the amp or power supply may be crook , not sure how your connecting/testing with amp in line and splitter connected .A good splitter in line
shouldn't make you loose channels with a good amp working unless the Signal Quality is very poor or you are not using the power passing connection
for the power pack outlet at the splitter.When testing for pictures without the amp you have to disconnect and bypass the amp at the antenna not just only
unplug the power pack at the wall outlet, as the amp won't pass any signal at all if you just turn off or unplug the power supply unit.If you have a multimeter you can check to see if there is around 22v AC at the end of the cable the connects up at the amp to see if power is getting to the amp via the
cables and splitter connections . If you have any short circuits on the connections the power pack will shut down stopping the booster until the short circuit
is removed and it should power up again.All will be revealed when the man with the Meter turns up


The splitter I was trying is "ANTSIG". I have purchased one of these Matchmaster 07MM-GM03 a Matchmaster 07MM-GM03 which may be a better quality to try ??? Does a "Power pass" amp work "passively" if not connect to a power supply ?

Is it posible that the amp could be too higher gain (25-40dB) ??? As I get all channels perfectly when I connect a cable directly from the antenna to the STB (with nothing else inline). Would a lower gain amp (eg.15dB) help keep the signal level up just enough to accomodate the splitter ?

As you say "the man with the meter" will reveal all !

Thanks

#191 Tazzy2Heads

Tazzy2Heads

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 303 posts

Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:37 AM

The splitter I was trying is "ANTSIG". I have purchased one of these Matchmaster 07MM-GM03 a Matchmaster 07MM-GM03 which may be a better quality to try ??? Does a "Power pass" amp work "passively" if not connect to a power supply ?

Is it posible that the amp could be too higher gain (25-40dB) ??? As I get all channels perfectly when I connect a cable directly from the antenna to the STB (with nothing else inline). Would a lower gain amp (eg.15dB) help keep the signal level up just enough to accomodate the splitter ?

As you say "the man with the meter" will reveal all !

Thanks

I guess you mean a power passing splitter ?yes the splitter will split the signal to each leg with out power if it is working ok, it doesn't need power to work,
but it is only the leg marked power pass that will let the power go up to amp. You can get splitters marked power pass all ports where it doesn't matter
which outlet you plug the power unit into, You can also get powered Distribution amplifier splitters which are designed to overcome splitter and cable losses.
If you don't get any pictures with the amp running it sounds like the amp is faulty or the splitter is faulty , do you get any pictures with just the new splitter in line?The chances of signal overload being the problem at your location in the hills and with trees is is not high and it usually causes pixelation on one or two
channels not all at once. When you know the signal levels of all the channels from the antenna then it can be worked out how much amplification if any is
required, bearing in mind there are tvs all over the country operating perfectly on signal levels that would measured as too strong, it is only some tuners that don't like it or there is an interference signal that is being amplified up with the Digital signal the causes problems.
Most reception problems are caused by bad installation practices , bad or faulty connections, the wrong antenna and /or location, too much signal is not
that common just one of the many things for the installer to consider when troubleshooting a system and the first thing to do is measure the signals with a
Digital Signal Meter that can accurately measure the strength and Quality of all the channels individually to understand whats going on properly.

#192 jaytv

jaytv

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • 15 posts

Posted 09 January 2012 - 09:06 AM

QUOTE (jaytv @ Jan 6 2012, 09:19 AM)
The splitter I was trying is "ANTSIG". I have purchased one of these Matchmaster 07MM-GM03 a Matchmaster 07MM-GM03 which may be a better quality to try ??? Does a "Power pass" amp work "passively" if not connect to a power supply ?

Is it posible that the amp could be too higher gain (25-40dB) ??? As I get all channels perfectly when I connect a cable directly from the antenna to the STB (with nothing else inline). Would a lower gain amp (eg.15dB) help keep the signal level up just enough to accomodate the splitter ?

As you say "the man with the meter" will reveal all !

Thanks

I guess you mean a power passing splitter ?yes the splitter will split the signal to each leg with out power if it is working ok, it doesn't need power to work,
but it is only the leg marked power pass that will let the power go up to amp. You can get splitters marked power pass all ports where it doesn't matter
which outlet you plug the power unit into, You can also get powered Distribution amplifier splitters which are designed to overcome splitter and cable losses.
If you don't get any pictures with the amp running it sounds like the amp is faulty or the splitter is faulty , do you get any pictures with just the new splitter in line?The chances of signal overload being the problem at your location in the hills and with trees is is not high and it usually causes pixelation on one or two
channels not all at once. When you know the signal levels of all the channels from the antenna then it can be worked out how much amplification if any is
required, bearing in mind there are tvs all over the country operating perfectly on signal levels that would measured as too strong, it is only some tuners that don't like it or there is an interference signal that is being amplified up with the Digital signal the causes problems.
Most reception problems are caused by bad installation practices , bad or faulty connections, the wrong antenna and /or location, too much signal is not
that common just one of the many things for the installer to consider when troubleshooting a system and the first thing to do is measure the signals with a
Digital Signal Meter that can accurately measure the strength and Quality of all the channels individually to understand whats going on properly.


*** SOLVED ****

Well I seem to have fixed this issue. As you mentioned, I think it was a "bad masthead amp". I think I'll still get the signal measured though, so I know what I'm getting at the antenna and the outlets...But at the moment everything is working perfectly. I will exlain what I did for future reference.

1.First thing I did was replaced all the cabling from the antenna to the outlets with new quad shield cabling....It had been there for a while and I don't think some of it was "quad shield".

2.Next, I connected the antenna directly to the main wall plate and then into the STB. (by-passing the masthead amp and any splitters)...Then did a rescan of the STB for channels, all channels were detected and worked perfectly.

3. I then added a 3 way splitter, however, when the spliltter was added there was no signal.... Assuming the splitter loss caused the signal strength to drop too low, I then connected the 'original' masthead amp (which had been there for at least 8 yrs)... I got a signal but everything was pixelated and un-watchable. I tried adjusting the gain control (24-40dB), but nothing changed.

4. I then replaced the masthead amp with a new one(10-24dB gain control). Instantly had a better picture on all channels with the gain control on the lowest setting (10dB)...no pixelation at all.

5. To test further I connected another STB via the RF Loop from STB1. (on a side note, this set top box hadn't been working for a long time as I "thought" the tuner had failed due to bad pixelation on all channels)...and to my suprise most channels had a perfect picture (obivously the tuner hadn't failed. It just wasn't getting a strong enough signal), PRIME was pixelating. So I slowly adjusted the gain control on the amp (ended up on the highest setting 24dB) and the pixelation vanished.

6. I then connected the other outlets (from the 3 way splitter) one went to a TV with built in turner and the other to a PC with a PCI turner card (which also hadn't worked because I thought the turner had gone bad)... All outlets were now giving a perfect picture.

7. One last test I did, was to add an extra 4way splitter (still leaving the 3 way inline) to see if I still had enough signal now going to 7 outlets...and it still worked no change at all.

One thing to note is that a quality splitter does make a difference, as I tried some 'cheaper' ones I had, and there was diffinately a noticable change with picture quaility when using these cheaper splitters

Also, I belive (as is adivsed commonly this forum) a good installer would obivously pick this up quickly, as they have the signal meter which takes all the guess work out of it.

Many thanks Tazzy for your help. :)

#193 Tazzy2Heads

Tazzy2Heads

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 303 posts

Posted 11 January 2012 - 09:08 AM

*** SOLVED ****

Well I seem to have fixed this issue. As you mentioned, I think it was a "bad masthead amp". I think I'll still get the signal measured though, so I know what I'm getting at the antenna and the outlets...But at the moment everything is working perfectly. I will exlain what I did for future reference.

1.First thing I did was replaced all the cabling from the antenna to the outlets with new quad shield cabling....It had been there for a while and I don't think some of it was "quad shield".

2.Next, I connected the antenna directly to the main wall plate and then into the STB. (by-passing the masthead amp and any splitters)...Then did a rescan of the STB for channels, all channels were detected and worked perfectly.

3. I then added a 3 way splitter, however, when the spliltter was added there was no signal.... Assuming the splitter loss caused the signal strength to drop too low, I then connected the 'original' masthead amp (which had been there for at least 8 yrs)... I got a signal but everything was pixelated and un-watchable. I tried adjusting the gain control (24-40dB), but nothing changed.

4. I then replaced the masthead amp with a new one(10-24dB gain control). Instantly had a better picture on all channels with the gain control on the lowest setting (10dB)...no pixelation at all.

5. To test further I connected another STB via the RF Loop from STB1. (on a side note, this set top box hadn't been working for a long time as I "thought" the tuner had failed due to bad pixelation on all channels)...and to my suprise most channels had a perfect picture (obivously the tuner hadn't failed. It just wasn't getting a strong enough signal), PRIME was pixelating. So I slowly adjusted the gain control on the amp (ended up on the highest setting 24dB) and the pixelation vanished.

6. I then connected the other outlets (from the 3 way splitter) one went to a TV with built in turner and the other to a PC with a PCI turner card (which also hadn't worked because I thought the turner had gone bad)... All outlets were now giving a perfect picture.

7. One last test I did, was to add an extra 4way splitter (still leaving the 3 way inline) to see if I still had enough signal now going to 7 outlets...and it still worked no change at all.

One thing to note is that a quality splitter does make a difference, as I tried some 'cheaper' ones I had, and there was diffinately a noticable change with picture quaility when using these cheaper splitters

Also, I belive (as is adivsed commonly this forum) a good installer would obivously pick this up quickly, as they have the signal meter which takes all the guess work out of it.

Many thanks Tazzy for your help. :)

Good to hear you have made progress, it will be worth the money to have the signal strength and Quality measured to see how
robust the system is to allow for rain fade etc if putting a splitter in line with out the amp working took the pictures away on the
STB. It sounds like you don't have much margin above the "cliff edge" and maybe just "hanging in there".
It would be interesting to see the signal levels if you get them taken.
Cheers Tazzy

#194 jaytv

jaytv

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • 15 posts

Posted 11 January 2012 - 09:17 AM

Good to hear you have made progress, it will be worth the money to have the signal strength and Quality measured to see how
robust the system is to allow for rain fade etc if putting a splitter in line with out the amp working took the pictures away on the
STB. It sounds like you don't have much margin above the "cliff edge" and maybe just "hanging in there".
It would be interesting to see the signal levels if you get them taken.
Cheers Tazzy


Yes, I'd be interested to see also, although, we had a massive storm go through the other night and picture didn't pixelate at all. I'll post back when I get the results.

Edited by jaytv, 11 January 2012 - 09:20 AM.


#195 rygle

rygle

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • 9 posts

Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:33 PM

The Hunter transmitter list really needs to be updated, as there are several new digital transmitters being activated in November 2012.

I received a letter from my local federal member indicating activation of the Belmont North transmitter on November 2, 2012. When checking the address of a friend with fringe reception I found another transmitter was being activated at Warners Bay on the same date. These transmitters/repeaters are to cover fringe areas not properly covered by the Mt Sugarloaf/Newcastle, Kotarah and Merewether transmitters.

From some more googling, I beleive that there are also new transmitters being activated across northern NSW in late 2012. See the following information.

Press release earlier in the year - http://www.minister....leases/2012/006

See these pages for more specific details (Addresses picked at random in a spot that is newly covered by the relevant transmitter);
Belmont North transmitter to be activated November 2 2012 - http://myswitch.digi... rd jewells nsw
Warners Bay transmitter to be activated November 2 2012 - http://myswitch.digi...2282, Australia
Anna Bay transmitter to be activated mid November 2012 - http://myswitch.digi...2316, Australia

Brokeback/Broke shows no specific news at present, but I suggest this will help at a later date - http://myswitch.digi...2330, Australia

I hope this helps...

Edited by rygle, 26 October 2012 - 01:35 PM.


#196 rygle

rygle

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • 9 posts

Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:56 PM

Further technical info on the new transmitters mentioned in my last post;

For all sites:

Channels available at launch
ABC - ABC1, ABC2, ABC3, ABC News 24
SBS - SBSONE, SBSTWO, SBS HD
PRIME - Prime7, Prime2, Prime Mate
NBN - NBN, GO!, GEM
Southern Cross Austereo - Southern Cross Ten, 11, 1

Belmont North Technical:
51099/Optus/Hutchison Site Belmont Water Reservoir Violet Town Rd BELMONT NORTH
Lat (GDA94) -33.00910395
Long (GDA94) 151.6735901
Service Network Owner Freq(MHz) Channel Polarisation Pat Licence No
ABC ABC 613.5 40 V DA 1955226
SBS SBS 550.5 31 V DA 1955225
NEN Prime 634.5 43 V DA 1955227
NBN NBN 655.5 46 V DA 1955228
NRN Southern Cross Austereo 676.5 49 V DA 1955229


Recommended Antenna Configuration:
Band - UHF Band 4 and 5
Gain - Low
Polarisation - Vertical
Amplifier - No
Type - Wideband UHF antenna
Height - Roof height

Warners Bay Technical:

5828/Motorola Site Munibung Hill Cardiff NEWCASTLE
Lat (GDA94) -32.95627807
Long (GDA94) 151.6409484
Service Network Owner Freq(MHz) Channel Polarisation Pat Licence No
ABC ABC 613.5 40 V DA 1956217
SBS SBS 550.5 31 V DA 1956216
NEN Prime 634.5 43 V DA 1956218
NBN NBN 655.5 46 V DA 1956219
NRN Southern Cross Austereo 676.5 49 V DA 1956220

Recommended Antenna Configuration:
Band - UHF Band 4 and 5
Gain - Low
Polarisation - Vertical
Amplifier - No
Type - Wideband UHF antenna
Height - Roof height

Anna Bay Technical:

140185/Broadcast Site - Hunter Water Corporation Water Tank ANNA BAY
Lat (GDA94) -32.78196002
Long (GDA94) 152.0974942
Service Network Owner Freq(MHz) Channel Polarisation Pat Licence No
ABC ABC 683.5 50 H DA 1956214
SBS SBS 676.5 49 H DA 1956213
NEN Prime 655.5 46 H DA 1956211
NBN NBN 662.5 47 H DA 1956212
NRN Southern Cross Austereo 718.5 55 H DA 1956215

Recommended Antenna:
Band - UHF Band 5
Gain - Low
Polarisation - Horizontal
Amplifier - No
Type - Wideband UHF antenna
Height - Roof height

Edited by rygle, 26 October 2012 - 03:14 PM.


#197 alanh

alanh

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 12,562 posts

Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:58 PM

rygele,
The new translators are yet to start transmission, which is why they are not in the transmitter list as yet.
If my "Get the best reception" post is followed, it takes you to the www. digitalready.gov.au website and you put in your exact address. This site will tell you if you are in the coverage area of the new translators. The predicted start dates are also mentioned.

AlanH

#198 rygle

rygle

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • 9 posts

Posted 26 October 2012 - 03:16 PM

It seems that some discussion on this might have been useful if someone knew it was coming...

#199 alanh

alanh

    AV Forums Member

  • Senior Member
  • 12,562 posts

Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:05 PM

rygle,
I was just describing why the transmitter list does not contain the new translators. The discussion is fine.
Alanh

#200 rygle

rygle

    AV Forums Member

  • Member
  • 9 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 05:40 PM

Belmont north transmitter working great with all the channels as described above.

I had previously given up on an economical free to air solution because of two significant ridges between me in Jewells and Sugarloaf transmitter. I had a TV guy come out and tell me it would be at least $1500 to get a 10m pole and high gain antenna working and that with no guarantees. I'm now getting reasonable reception with a Dick Smith aerial I had laying around that is just a pair of rabbits ears and a simple amplifier. It's only 750m but about a million gum trees and several houses in the way.

Rygle.