Jump to content


Photo

Get The Best Reception, Hunter Valley


  • Please log in to reply
228 replies to this topic

#1 alanh

alanh

    AV Forum Member

  • Senior Member
  • 12,665 posts

Posted 16 December 2004 - 12:30 AM

.

Edited by alanh, 25 March 2013 - 12:05 AM.


#2 lesftv

lesftv

    AV Forum Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 427 posts

Posted 16 December 2004 - 06:24 PM

All,
The following transmitters cover the Hunter Valley (including Newcastle) Area
Main (High Powered) Transmitters (Mt Sugarloaf)
Station call sign, Logical channel number which appears on the front of the STB,  Real (RF) channel number.
http://www2b.abc.net...d=3567&presdir=
ABHN(2)37, SBS(3)38, NBN(8)36, NRN(Southern Cross(5))51, NEN(Prime (6)) 53 with channels 29 & 35 spare.

The antenna should be mounted horizontally.

Merewether (Cooks Hill)
http://www2b.abc.net...d=5448&presdir=
ABHN(2)37, SBS(3)38, NBN(8)36, NRN(Southern Cross(5))51, NEN(Prime (6)) 53 with channels 29 & 35 spare

The antenna should be mounted horizontally.


Kotara(Centenary Lookout, Charlestown)

http://www2b.abc.net...d=5486&presdir=
ABHN(2)37, SBS(3)38, NBN(8)36, NRN(Southern Cross(5))51, NEN(Prime (6)) 53 with channels 29 & 35 spare

The antenna should be mounted vertically.

Check the NSW Central Coast for adjoining southern areas http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=12101.

Antennas Band 5 215 mm

Yagi
Fracarro  20RD5 11-14 dB
Hills TMX18 B5 11-16.5 dB
Wisi EB66 Ch 38-69 ≤16.5 dB (29º acceptance)

Log Periodic
Fracarro LP5HV 9.0 dB

http://www.hillsante.../UHFAntenna.pdf
http://www.fracarro..../0/Antennas.pdf

For diffuse signals (blocked by hills etc) for use with Mt Sugarloaf signals only.
Phased array
Hills Super Hunter 11.5-15 dB
Jaycar LT3138 12 dB
Wisi EE06 ≤13.5 dB (46º H 27º V acceptance Hor Pol)
Amplifier if required Band 5
Kingray MHU44B5G B1-3 -1 dB, B5 44 dB
+ Power supply PSK08 http://www.gme.net.a.../mastheads.html

The higher the number of dBs the more sensitive.

The last option is indoor rabbits the total length is;
band 5 215 mm. Typically 0 dB unless there is an amplifier in the base.

Note none of the above antennas are designed to receive Digital Audio Broadcasting or FM radio.

If you have an old VHF antenna for this area, it was designed for channel 3-5 which covers the FM band.

Finally,

Consult
Check http://www.dba.org.a...sp?sectionID=22 for transmitter openings
http://www.dba.org.a...sp?sectionID=25 for further information about houses or http://www.dba.org.a...sp?sectionID=26 for apartments.

AlanH

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Perhaps we don't try to offer advice outside our own market. Very dodgy.

#3 jaybonzi

jaybonzi

    AV Forum Member

  • New Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 497 posts

Posted 17 December 2004 - 08:03 AM

All,
The following transmitters cover the Hunter Valley (including Newcastle) Area
Main (High Powered) Transmitters (Mt Sugarloaf)
Station call sign, Logical channel number which appears on the front of the STB,  Real (RF) channel number.
http://www2b.abc.net...d=3567&presdir=
ABHN(2)37, SBS(3)38, NBN(8)36, NRN(Southern Cross(5))51, NEN(Prime (6)) 53 with channels 29 & 35 spare.

The antenna should be mounted horizontally.

Merewether (Cooks Hill)
http://www2b.abc.net...d=5448&presdir=
ABHN(2)37, SBS(3)38, NBN(8)36, NRN(Southern Cross(5))51, NEN(Prime (6)) 53 with channels 29 & 35 spare

The antenna should be mounted horizontally.


Kotara(Centenary Lookout, Charlestown)

http://www2b.abc.net...d=5486&presdir=
ABHN(2)37, SBS(3)38, NBN(8)36, NRN(Southern Cross(5))51, NEN(Prime (6)) 53 with channels 29 & 35 spare

The antenna should be mounted vertically.

Check the NSW Central Coast for adjoining southern areas http://www.dtvforum....showtopic=12101.

Antennas Band 5 215 mm

Yagi
Fracarro  20RD5 11-14 dB
Hills TMX18 B5 11-16.5 dB
Wisi EB66 Ch 38-69 ≤16.5 dB (29º acceptance)

Log Periodic
Fracarro LP5HV 9.0 dB

http://www.hillsante.../UHFAntenna.pdf
http://www.fracarro..../0/Antennas.pdf

For diffuse signals (blocked by hills etc) for use with Mt Sugarloaf signals only.
Phased array
Hills Super Hunter 11.5-15 dB
Jaycar LT3138 12 dB
Wisi EE06 ≤13.5 dB (46º H 27º V acceptance Hor Pol)
Amplifier if required Band 5
Kingray MHU44B5G B1-3 -1 dB, B5 44 dB
+ Power supply PSK08 http://www.gme.net.a.../mastheads.html

The higher the number of dBs the more sensitive.

The last option is indoor rabbits the total length is;
band 5 215 mm. Typically 0 dB unless there is an amplifier in the base.

Note none of the above antennas are designed to receive Digital Audio Broadcasting or FM radio.

If you have an old VHF antenna for this area, it was designed for channel 3-5 which covers the FM band.

Finally,

Consult
Check http://www.dba.org.a...sp?sectionID=22 for transmitter openings
http://www.dba.org.a...sp?sectionID=25 for further information about houses or http://www.dba.org.a...sp?sectionID=26 for apartments.

AlanH

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Perhaps we don't try to offer advice outside our own market. Very dodgy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Give him a break les his just trying to help

#4 kenneth

kenneth

    AV Forum Member

  • Senior Member
  • 4,173 posts

Posted 18 December 2004 - 11:11 PM

Give him a break les his just trying to help

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Alan is trying to help (if I am correct, he is one of the most helpful posters on this forum) but I do see it as dodgy that he is trying to post information relevant to each area from, what seems to be, information from the ABA and the ABC.

What I think Alan should do is just add a line at the start saying something along the lines of:

Note: This information is compiled from ABA, ABC and my common knowledge of antenna's. It may be subject to errors due to different factors

Or maybe something else.

#5 jaybonzi

jaybonzi

    AV Forum Member

  • New Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 497 posts

Posted 19 December 2004 - 08:52 PM

Can you receive central cost digital tv with a uhf antana facing sugerloaf :blink:

#6 alanh

alanh

    AV Forum Member

  • Senior Member
  • 12,665 posts

Posted 20 December 2004 - 11:49 PM

jaybonzi,
Any sensitive antenna is directional, thats how they increase the signal strength by focussing the signal on the dipole. The also have reflector(s) to prevent pick up from behind.

Also the Sugarloaf transmitters are much stronger than any of the Central Coast transmitters.

Kenneth & Lesv,
The antenna recommendations are from a website survey of specifications which match the following;
Only cover the range of channels to be used for a given coverage area.
Where applicable will be dual polarity.
There is a recommendation for long distance reception/blocked path reception of signal. You will note I do not mention distances and the amount of block. In combination with the coverage maps this is general comment.

As for amplifiers I have tried to restrict the frequency range they amplify to the channels in use. This is to minimise the amplification of interference and noise.

I make no comment as to the quality of construction of the antennas, only the manufacturers' published specifications.

The only link I am not giving is the ABA one because I use a variety of their sources and combine the information into a more useful form.

The ABC will have to take responsibility for the maps they publish.

You will also not I am not recommending antenna heights except to say that the maps are based on an outside antenna 10 m above the ground.

I am leaving the requirements of the installation to the antenna installers in the respective regions, their digital signal measuring equipment and their local knowledge.

The main reason I have written these posts is to alert the public to translators which, can give the first good reception in an area. In bigger cities they are commonly not known about. Then they have a new reason to get an antenna installer.

Lesv, if you know of no go zones, are you reporting them to the ABA? The viewers and you could greatly benefit!

My last comment is to all,
The specifications given by manufacturers and distributors should indicate the lowest gain (Not all do) and the highest Bit Error Rate (BER) on any channel in their specified range of channels. This would have to be measured in the absence of interference and with a signal of adequate strength. Then we may be able to choose on performance. The physical longevity is another matter.

AlanH

#7 crownms123

crownms123

    AV Forum Member

  • Member
  • 46 posts

Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:58 PM

I think Alan H is trying his best to help people here. I think he has a heart in trying to help the self installers do a great job of their installations. I know that LesTV uses a range of great products in his installations but not all installers are the same. I have been ripped off by two Newcastle antenna installers who use budget products and charge through the roof for them. I personally installed an F-Type 4 way Matchmaster splitter in my house which cost me around the $20.00 mark and an installer tried to remove and keep the unit only so he could install his cheaper version and charge $100.00 for a six way splitter which I didn't need. Mine wasn't even faulty. For this job and to install an FM trap, he tried to charge me $475.00. I think it is just a rippoff. Three cheers for Alan H who spends his time publishing these details. It may actually give the customer satisfaction, and help them to never be taken to the cleaners. From what I know, all his recommendations are within spec and he also has some idea about these installations. As there is no qualification needed to install antennas, I have had guys come out to give me a quote, claiming they have a signal strength meter and give a quote using guesswork without being sure of a proper installation. I was told that in Enfield, Sydney I would always have ghosting on my SBS by installers but I personally installed my antenna pointing to the Illawarra region and had fantastic results. Shame on some of you installers out there. Don't try to cut the helpful Alan H down.

#8 alanh

alanh

    AV Forum Member

  • Senior Member
  • 12,665 posts

Posted 23 August 2005 - 10:35 PM

All,
I have added Dungog and Aberdeen to the first post.

AlanH

#9 Big Dan

Big Dan

    AV Forum Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 197 posts

Posted 18 April 2006 - 11:39 PM

Hi!

I was wondering if there's been any change in the details for Rossgole Lookout (Aberdeen).

I've got ABC Digital on VHF 7 and SBS Digital on UHF 64, and have done so since Xmas...

#10 alanh

alanh

    AV Forum Member

  • Senior Member
  • 12,665 posts

Posted 18 April 2006 - 11:49 PM

ional_dtv,
The best thing to do is to ring NBN in Newcastle, and the others are in Canberra.

AlanH

#11 lesftv

lesftv

    AV Forum Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 427 posts

Posted 19 April 2006 - 09:16 PM

Alan,
I wish you would'nt cut and paste these charts as copied from someone else's websites. The ABC coverage maps you refer to are wildly optimistic ('specially for the Kotara and Merewether transmitters). If you were to do a little bit of research before you blindly believe someone else's data, you would come to the conclusion that they are innacurate. They may be adequate for analog television but they are WAY off the mark for digital.

Alan, if you were to find out the transmission powers for Merewether and Kotara, then the powers of the digitals for Mt. Sugarloaf, then look at the distances of the suburbs covered by these coverage maps, then you would come to the conclusion that (in the main) the digitals couldn't possibly work in these outlying suburbs. The digial coverage of a SFN is much smaller than if the digitals were on different channels on each site. Haven't you learned this yet?
lesf

#12 Big Dan

Big Dan

    AV Forum Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 197 posts

Posted 19 April 2006 - 10:09 PM

ional_dtv,
The best thing to do is to ring NBN in Newcastle, and the others are in Canberra.

AlanH


I have contacted NBN in the past about DTV in our area...2008! (they're still saying "TBA" at the DBA site) :blink:

Emailed Southern Cross....no response! :P

Emailed Prime...no response! :P

#13 digitalj

digitalj

    AV Forum Member

  • Senior Member
  • 12,947 posts

Posted 19 April 2006 - 11:49 PM

I have contacted NBN in the past about DTV in our area...2008! (they're still saying "TBA" at the DBA site) :blink:

Emailed Southern Cross....no response! :P

Emailed Prime...no response! :P



What e-mail addresses did you use?

#14 Big Dan

Big Dan

    AV Forum Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 197 posts

Posted 20 April 2006 - 02:18 PM

What e-mail addresses did you use?


I faxed NBN, they sent a letter back...I used the address on Southern Cross's website, and even mentioned this site within, and I got errors from Prime's.

#15 digitalj

digitalj

    AV Forum Member

  • Senior Member
  • 12,947 posts

Posted 20 April 2006 - 06:51 PM

I faxed NBN, they sent a letter back...I used the address on Southern Cross's website, and even mentioned this site within, and I got errors from Prime's.




You should be using these addresses:
SC10 is comment@scbnetwork.com.au,
PRIME for you is newcastle.reception@primetv.com.au, not primetv@primetv.com.au as this isn't used anymore.

#16 Big Dan

Big Dan

    AV Forum Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 197 posts

Posted 20 April 2006 - 09:37 PM

You should be using these addresses:
SC10 is comment@scbnetwork.com.au,
PRIME for you is newcastle.reception@primetv.com.au, not primetv@primetv.com.au as this isn't used anymore.


Tried the SC10 one....no response! :blink:

I'll try the Prime ones again...I think I used the newcastle.reception address...

#17 digitalj

digitalj

    AV Forum Member

  • Senior Member
  • 12,947 posts

Posted 26 April 2006 - 02:26 PM

There is always this fax number for Southern Cross Broadcasting. (03) 9682 5158.

#18 lesftv

lesftv

    AV Forum Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 427 posts

Posted 26 April 2006 - 06:48 PM

Alan,
I wish you would'nt cut and paste these charts as copied from someone else's websites. The ABC coverage maps you refer to are wildly optimistic ('specially for the Kotara and Merewether transmitters). If you were to do a little bit of research before you blindly believe someone else's data, you would come to the conclusion that they are innacurate. They may be adequate for analog television but they are WAY off the mark for digital.

Alan, if you were to find out the transmission powers for Merewether and Kotara, then the powers of the digitals for Mt. Sugarloaf, then look at the distances of the suburbs covered by these coverage maps, then you would come to the conclusion that (in the main) the digitals couldn't possibly work in these outlying suburbs. The digial coverage of a SFN is much smaller than if the digitals were on different channels on each site. Haven't you learned this yet?
lesf

#19 alanh

alanh

    AV Forum Member

  • Senior Member
  • 12,665 posts

Posted 26 April 2006 - 08:34 PM

Les,
The ABC has not stated how they obtained these maps. You should complain to them as there are plenty of complaints on this forum about these translators particularly viewing their program.

You may have more effect of the ABC Reception Line contact.

By the way, do you know of any problems in the Beresfield, Woodberry, Thornton, Ashtonfield, Turro and Heatherbrae areas. I am thinking of AM interference causing corduroy patterning on analog, and unstable pictures and sound on digital.

AlanH

#20 lesftv

lesftv

    AV Forum Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 427 posts

Posted 26 April 2006 - 08:46 PM

The ABC has not stated how they obtained these maps. You should complain to them as there are plenty of complaints on this forum about these translators particularly viewing their program.

Alan,
Perhaps you have more time than I do to complain to ABC.

By the way, do you know of any problems in the Beresfield, Woodberry, Thornton, Ashtonfield, Turro and Heatherbrae areas. I am thinking of AM interference causing corduroy patterning on analog, and unstable pictures and sound on digital.

The only interference that is likely to occur on analog is to SC10 Mt. Sugarloaf. This is a common problem which is the domain of the antenna installer. If you look at the AM services avialable from Mt. Sugarloaf, you would quickly ascertain from where the interference is emanating. Not too difficult to calculate, given the frequencies available from Mt. Sugarloaf. Don't know about AM interferece to digital.
lesf

#21 alanh

alanh

    AV Forum Member

  • Senior Member
  • 12,665 posts

Posted 28 April 2006 - 12:32 AM

Les,
The main dBA website's Reception locator also contains this link from each selected transmitter site to the ABC reception line's map.

I cannot comment to the ABC because I do not know the areas in dispute.

Re the Beresford area, The ABC has a 10 kW Local radio transmitter on 1233 kHz and a 10 kW Radio National transmitter on 1512 kHz. If the power level is high enough it causes a corduroy style pattern over an analog picture. In digital it causes picture & sound breakup. The above transmitters are 10 kW each. I know it is a problem with 50 kW transmitters.

The effect is intermodulation between the TV signal carrier and the AM radio carrier to make the interference visible.

AlanH

#22 lesftv

lesftv

    AV Forum Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 427 posts

Posted 28 April 2006 - 07:20 AM

Alan,
I haven't seen AM interference on analog TVs for 25 years as caused by radio stations. It used to be a problem with mono and early colour TVs but not of recent times as far as I know. There are also 6 AM transmitters on Mt. Sugarloaf. There is an interelationship on some channels which can cause this type of patterning which you describe, but only on SC at Mt. Sugarloaf on Channel 57 (and it is an antenna installer's issue).
lesf

#23 RF Burns

RF Burns

    AV Forum Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 398 posts

Posted 28 April 2006 - 04:55 PM

Alan,
I haven't seen AM interference on analog TVs for 25 years as caused by radio stations. It used to be a problem with mono and early colour TVs but not of recent times as far as I know. There are also 6 AM transmitters on Mt. Sugarloaf. There is an interelationship on some channels which can cause this type of patterning which you describe, but only on SC at Mt. Sugarloaf on Channel 57 (and it is an antenna installer's issue).
lesf


Les,

I haven't seen or heard of any AM radio interference on Analogue TV's around here either, but I do know the ABC Newcastle AM transmission site stuffs with the ignition/computer system on my car (late model XR8 Falcon).
Within about a 500m radius of the antenna my car runs rough & will stall at around idle speeds. I've had it up Mt Sugarloaf, Black Mountain Canberra & Knights Hill Illawara, & all around the Sydney transmission sites (both AM & FM/TV) & as close as 30m to various AM transmitting antennas around Australia, all with no effect, but for some reason my car doesn't like the ABC Newcastle AM radio site.

The 6 AM transmitters on Mt Sugarloaf, are you talking about the vision carrier transmitters of the 6 Analogue TV channels or are there another 6 AM transmitters on Mt Sugarloaf? I haven't bothered searching through my transmitter list yet to find out.

Cheers
Glenn.

#24 alanh

alanh

    AV Forum Member

  • Senior Member
  • 12,665 posts

Posted 28 April 2006 - 06:44 PM

Les & Glenn,
The radio transmitters you speak of are FM on the same towers as TV. ABC radio is in Beresford, 2HD (1143 kHz) transmitter is in Sandgate 2KY (1341 kHz) repeater on Birmingham Gardens and SBS's 2EA (1413 kHz) is in Hexam. All other stations in Newcastle are on FM between 99.7 - 106.9 MHz and are all on Sugarloaf.

It would appear that none of these station's power is any match for your TV stations. The most likely ones would be NBN3 and ABHN5A.

To identify interference look at Better Radio & TV booklet

Glenn,
I suggest you look at the earthing in the engine management system. Particularly rust under the earthing connection. Start at the negative lead from the battery.

AlanH

#25 RF Burns

RF Burns

    AV Forum Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 398 posts

Posted 28 April 2006 - 09:50 PM

Les & Glenn,
The radio transmitters you speak of are FM on the same towers as TV. ABC radio is in Beresford, 2HD (1143 kHz) transmitter is in Sandgate 2KY (1341 kHz) repeater on Birmingham Gardens and SBS's 2EA (1413 kHz) is in Hexam. All other stations in Newcastle are on FM between 99.7 - 106.9 MHz and are all on Sugarloaf.

It would appear that none of these station's power is any match for your TV stations. The most likely ones would be NBN3 and ABHN5A.

To identify interference look at Better Radio & TV booklet

Glenn,
I suggest you look at the earthing in the engine management system. Particularly rust under the earthing connection. Start at the negative lead from the battery.

AlanH


AlanH,

I know you're trying to be helpful, but almost every time you say something you prove to those who do know something that you know nothing, & without any local knowledge a lot of your info is way off the mark & is more unhelpful than helpful to those who don't have any idea what they're talking about or trying to achive.

I do know the transmitters you're talking about, here's a bit of a backgrounder.

The ABC AM transmission site is actually at Woodberry not Beresfield, & to use a radius of 1km from the antenna (for arguments sake), there would be at a guess 500+ houses within this radius, the 1341 khz transmitter at Birmingham Gardens, (same radius) maybe 1000+ houses, the 1143 & 1413 khz transmitters are negligable with maybe 50 -100 houses within this radius (those two transmitter sites are actually only about 1km apart & in mainly swamplands).
So if the AM transmitters were causing interference it would be major & well known about.

I don't know what Les is talking about, I'm waiting for his response, but here's some little known info you may not know about in relation to what I asked Les.

Although some are located in the FM Broadcast band & are generally thought of as FM transmissions, Analogue (PAL) colour TV is actually a mixture, the sound part of the "Channel" is Frequency Modulated (FM), but the vision part (vision carrier) is actually Amplitude Modulated (AM), that's why you get interference in the vision but not the sound during a thunderstorm & why faulty electrical items give interference to the vision but not the sound.

There are 6 Analogue TV channels coming from Mt Sugarloaf 3 Commercial, 1 SBS & 2 ABC (1 VHF, 1 UHF), that's why I asked Les if this was the AM transmitters he was talking about.

And you obviously know nothing about RF interference into electrical circuits.
The interference in my car is because the RF gets past the shielding (or lack of it) & either overloads & corrupts the computer circuits (incl. fuel injection) or gets into the ignition leeds & causes discharges into the cylinders causing the engine to misfire. Although the body of a car is refered to as the ground or negative, it's not actually grounded to earth (as the tyres are insulators) it's only the return path of the DC circuit, rust under the earthing connection would affect the car all the time not only around 1 transmission site.

Most transmission sites don't have any warnings as most are out of the public's way, but if you ever travel to Canberra, go up Black Mountain to Telstra Tower & you will find signs in the car park warning that the high levels of RF radiation may affect some car ignition systems & they give you a phone no. to ring if you can't get your car started or it won't run properly. It's a well known possibility in the industry (even though it's rare), but at least Telstra let you know what's happening & why if it does happen.

Cheers
Glenn.