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3D Fta Olympics On Channel 9 Tip Off


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#76 digital doctor spock

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 03:58 PM

I wonder if it'll be on channel 200, SBS showed some of the world cup in 3D on 200 I think


The SBS world Cup was NOT transmitted by the SBS transmitter at all but from a separate stand-alone 3D dedicated transmitter that was used for Channel 9's rugby and the SBS world cup. The actual frequency will not be that relevant as all that is needed is to do a re-scan on the receiver and the 3D channel will appear.

#77 doodlefeatures

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:20 PM

I meant channel 200 on Fox, the 3D channel

#78 davmel

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 04:21 PM

I meant channel 200 on Fox, the 3D channel

I doubt Foxtel will get the rights to show a re-transmission of the Nine 3D broadcast. Nine's 3D broadcast will be the special BBC 3D feed. Plus why would you want to watch an inferior copy of the 3D channel on Foxtel when you can view the original in much higher quality and keep a digital copy on your own media?

#79 Neon Kitten

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 05:50 PM

The actual frequency will not be that relevant as all that is needed is to do a re-scan on the receiver and the 3D channel will appear.


It'll be relevant to the many many people in apartment buildings - with no amplifier for that channel in the building's antenna system, they'll see as much of the 3D Olympics as they do of channel 31 - i.e. nothing ;)

#80 alanh

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:22 PM

Digital Dr spock
It depends what city you are in. It was only Sydney which had a transmitter left over from Datacasting trial. The Datacasting trial only occured in Sydney.
The SBS back up transmitters were used elsewhere. All of these transmitters are owned by Broadcast Australia. The commercial stations in all mainland state capitals only ever use VHF band 3. You cannot retune one of these transmitters to UHF. You have to use a UHF transmitter.

AlanH

#81 James T Kirk

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:58 PM

The SBS world Cup was NOT transmitted by the SBS transmitter at all but from a separate stand-alone 3D dedicated transmitter that was used for Channel 9's rugby and the SBS world cup. The actual frequency will not be that relevant as all that is needed is to do a re-scan on the receiver and the 3D channel will appear.


Absolutely correct Digital Doctor Spock.


Digital Dr spock
It was only Sydney which had a transmitter left over from Datacasting trial.
The SBS back up transmitters were used elsewhere.
AlanH


Absolutely wrong you ill informed one.

Edited by James T Kirk, 24 April 2012 - 11:06 PM.


#82 James T Kirk

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:07 PM

The Gold Coast is interesting, how exactly are they finding a spare channel for both Brisbane and the Gold Coast? The spare assignments for the Gold Coast are the same as Brisbane, 38 and 50. CTQ (31 Digital) uses the 38 allocation and the previous Brisbane 3D trial occurred on channel 50. Sure there's the analogue switchoff, but I'd doubt whether enough time has passed to achieve an interference plan for an allocation of a different frequency to the Gold Coast.

SFNs with Brisbane and the Gold Coast would surely have been tried and dismissed by now?


GoFor Moe
It is planned that Brisbane 3D will be on channel 31 and the extra area I noted earlier will be the Gold Coast on channel 50.
You can trust that no 3D SFN's will happen.
James

#83 MLXXX

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:05 PM

It is planned that Brisbane 3D will be on channel 31

Well I am amazed. I suggested that merely as a theoretical possibility!

That might suit larger apartment buildings in Brisbane that still happen to include channel 31 amongst their list of specifically catered for frequencies.

#84 James T Kirk

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:11 PM

That might suit larger apartment buildings in Brisbane that still happen to include channel 31 amongst their list of specifically catered for frequencies.


That is one reason, plus all the BIII/BIV antennas everywhere receiving SBS will benefit as a result.
Channel 50 was the only choice last time and BV was by no means an ideal solution for Brisbane.
James

#85 alanh

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 02:20 AM

James Kirk,
It has nothing to do with antennas. It is the MATV amplifiers in larger apartments use channel tuned amplifiers. So for the Brisbane area nearly all building owners will not install an additional channel 50 amplifier for few weeks of programming.

After the analog switchoff SBS will move to channel 7 as part of the restack. The other UHF transmitters will have to be re-organised so that there is no TV transmitters in the channels 52 - 69. This will mean that channel group E channels 46 - 51 will no doubt be used near Brisbane.

AlanH

#86 GoForMoe

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 02:40 AM

It has nothing to do with antennas. It is the MATV amplifiers in larger apartments use channel tuned amplifiers. So for the Brisbane area nearly all building owners will not install an additional channel 50 amplifier for few weeks of programming.

For someone who has spent the last decade telling users that to 'get the best reception' you should use an antenna designed for the frequencies in use in your area, it is shocking that you would think this has nothing to do with antennas.

The use of Channel 50 for the previous trial in Brisbane put it outside of the range of the other frequencies in the area. The Gold Coast on the other hand has Channel 50 in between other allocations in that band, therefore those who follow your advice in the area will have suitable antennas for a Gold Coast Channel 50 and a Brisbane Channel 31, and only those who didn't would be set up for the Brisbane Channel 50 of the previous trial.

The MATV point was that it is more likely that UHF31 will be passed through in Brisbane MATV systems than 50 was (or 38 is for that matter), making it a better choice for another reason.

This is really smart planning on ACMA's behalf and will mean wider access to the trials than previous.

#87 DrP

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 04:41 AM

For someone who has spent the last decade telling users that to 'get the best reception' you should use an antenna designed for the frequencies in use in your area, it is shocking that you would think this has nothing to do with antennas.


Flip flopping, back pedalling, rewriting history, adjusting the story - it's all part of the alanh experience that we've come to know and expect.

#88 MLXXX

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:17 PM

James Kirk,
It has nothing to do with antennas.

I echo observations made by GoForMoe. How it is that you appear to have lost touch with the fact that some TV antennas are designed for some bands (or parts of bands), and not others, is hard to fathom. Antennas are not my line of country but a very quick search of the web revealed the following example.

The Hills Antenna & TV systems site ( http://www.hillsante...t_subcat?cat=15 ) recommends a PDHD1 Plus antennna for my Brisbane strong to medium signal strength location, an antenna designed with the following coverage:

"Designed for Capital City Digital TV: Channels 6 - 12, 28 - 36"

"The Platinum High Definition (PHD+) series antennas are engineered for Australian capital city digital channels, covering only the required frequency range to ensure the cleanest possible reception of digital TV signals. The PHD1+ is a heavy duty antenna that offers superior performance for prime area reception conditions."

Channels 6 - 12 / 28 - 38
Gain (dB) 4 - 6 / 9 - 11


Such an antenna, recently installed in Brisbane, could be expected to provide a diminished response for channel 50.

It is the MATV amplifiers in larger apartments use channel tuned amplifiers.

Alanh, you were addressing this remark to a technician/engineer currently involved in television broadcasting. You might as well have told James Kirk there are 7 days in a week. There is no point in telling people what they already know.

I repeat my suggestion that you post in DTVForum less, and more carefully.

Edited by MLXXX, 25 April 2012 - 09:08 PM.


#89 alanh

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:15 PM

I know exactly who James Kirk is.

Why are you ignoring the channel amplifer tuning. Even if the antenna receives channel 50 it still won't get to the wall plate.

Channel 50 was only used in Brisbane last time. It will never be used after the digital restack after mid next year because all Brisbane transmitters will be band 3 including the existing UHF services. Channel 50 will be used for new or existing UHF transmitters in the in the Sunshine Coast/Brisbane/Gold Coast area.

To ensure that viewers understand the month-long transmission will only be available in certain areas, the Nine Network has agreed to implement a range of consumer protection measures.

The ACMA developed the measures in consultation with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission following misleading statements from a number of electronics retailers during previous 3D TV trials.

‘Viewers need to be aware these broadcasts are temporary trials of the 3D TV format and that the long term technology is still developing,’ Mr Chapman said.

http://www.acma.gov....RD/pc=PC_410348


The long term technology;

There is no current transmission standard for terrestrial or satellite broadcasting. All existing transmissions are trials. MVC-MPEG-4 is used by Blu-ray discs only. If it were transmitted MPEG-4 2-D and S3-D can view the same program. There is a new research project called HEVC which will reduce an MPEG-2 video stream to a quarter of the data rate for the same picture quality. With such small data rates, the sound compression needs to be more efficient. MPEG-4 uses HE AAC, so HE AAC V2 will need to be added. If receivers will have to be upgraded then DVB-T2 needs to be included because there is no more channels available to existing broadcasters.


AlanH



#90 James T Kirk

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:06 PM


Why are you ignoring the channel amplifer tuning. Even if the antenna receives channel 50 it still won't get to the wall plate.
Channel 50 was only used in Brisbane last time. It will never be used after the digital restack after mid next year because all Brisbane transmitters will be band 3 including the existing UHF services. Channel 50 will be used for new or existing UHF transmitters in the in the Sunshine Coast/Brisbane/Gold Coast area.

AlanH


Dear AlanH

Thankyou for repeatedly advising all and sundry that a channelised distribution system may not be able to receive a temporary service on a channel it is not equipped to receive.
Thankyou for advising all and sundry that channel 50 was used for the last 3D trial in Brisbane.
Thankyou for repeatedly advising that after the Brisbane restack that all channels will be on Band III.
Thankyou for advising all and sundry that channel 50 will be available for use on the Gold and Sunshine Coasts after restack.

Despite some of the above being self evident, it is a rare occasion where I can acknowledge that you have strung more than two sentences together without making a mess.
(Caviat: In no way does the above suggest I condone or request any future posts you may make.)

Astonished
James

#91 MLXXX

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:01 PM

Why are you ignoring the channel amplifer tuning. Even if the antenna receives channel 50 it still won't get to the wall plate.


Neither I not James Kirk ignored channel amplifier tuning. It was implicit in my statement:

That might suit larger apartment buildings in Brisbane that still happen to include channel 31 amongst their list of specifically catered for frequencies.


That wording, I had hoped, would be an obvious enough reference to technical readers to an MATV system still tuned so as amplify RF (be it an analogue TV signal or a digital TV signal) at, or in the vicinity of, channel 31.

As mentioned previously, it is only in relatively recent times in Brisbane that the community broadcaster ceased using its analogue allocation on channel 31, so unless an MATV system has been specifically reprogrammed/adjusted since then to exclude channel 31 (or is of a sophisticated channelised design that vets the characteristics of the RF signal before amplifying it) channel 31 may well still exist as an amplified RF channel for distribution throughout the large apartment block, alongside the other specifically catered for amplified channels. James Kirk agreed with me that channel 31 could still suit some MATV systems.

James Kirk then went on to make the broader (and, I would have thought, easy to follow) point that some antennas in use by viewers throughout Brisbane (not just viewers in apartments) are not designed for channel 50, and have a better response at channel 31, making channel 31 a better choice for Brisbane for the 3D broadcasts in a few months' time, from a receiving antenna viewpoint. For some reason you took issue with that technical point. (I speculate it may have been because you hadn't digested the earlier technical point about MATV systems and were confusing the two separate points.)

I implore you, alanh, to take more time to read and understand others' posts, before deciding to create posts of your own. This should make life easier for everyone concerned!

There is a new research project called HEVC which will reduce an MPEG-2 video stream to a quarter of the data rate for the same picture quality.

The High Efficiency Video Coding project is current, but has been in progress for some time. The codec under development is intended as an improvement on and successor to H.264/MPEG-4 AVC video encoding. General information about HEVC appears at: http://en.wikipedia....cy_Video_Coding

Edited by MLXXX, 27 April 2012 - 01:29 AM.


#92 DrP

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:15 AM

You are wrong. All efforts are being put to 3D codecs. No work at all is being done on 2D codecs. (Yep, that's another fact from the alanh book of facts, strange that he seems to be contradicting himself... no wait, it's not strange at all!)

#93 alanh

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:20 AM

My posts on 13 April in this strand

"MLXXX suggests channel 31
It is clear in all mainland state capitals but for Melbourne due to interference to Prime in Central Victoria and Adelaide where C31 analog is still on air. The problem with this channel is that the old analog transmitters used by community TV. With the exception of Perth are all either medium or low powered and not equipped to transmit digital. It is upto SBS as to whether the will rent their standby transmitter and retune it to channel 31 except Melbourne."


and a little later on the same day I posted that channel 50 is still available in Brisbane

DrP,
HEVC has another name H265 and the compression tools being developed will apply to any video signal including S3-D. Wikepedia is not the only source of information on this.

AlanH

#94 DrP

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:21 AM

alanh, please stop contradicting yourself.

#95 MLXXX

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:34 AM

You are wrong. All efforts are being put to 3D codecs. No work at all is being done on 2D codecs. (Yep, that's another fact from the alanh book of facts, strange that he seems to be contradicting himself... no wait, it's not strange at all!)

Yes now that you mention it, DrP, I remember that surprising claim by alanh.

#96 digital doctor spock

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:34 AM

It is quite logical to realise that the SBS standby transmitters will not be used for the 3D MPEG 4 trial. They weren't used in the past and I cannot see the SBS offering up their standby transmitter. The choice of frequency is based on interference modelling and without any regard to MATV systems. It is up to the owner or body corporate to fit the additional modules as new channels come on line. Typically it is a slow process updating MATV systems and many still use analogue inputs rather than digital.

#97 alanh

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:59 PM

Funny about MVC MPEG-4 compressors, they produce a 2-D signal and also compress a depth signal.
Since the non-frame compatible S3-D is the only efficient way of ensuring full HD images for both eyes the HEVC will also have to produce a 2-D signal and a similarly compressed.

Reducing data rates techniques does not care if the signal is 2-D or depth signals. Such techniques as DCT can be applied to any signals. Ops I mentioned technicalities!

So Digital Dr Spock
Ben Spock fell out of favour when he had to retract his teachings. What is your evidence that SBS backup transmitters were not used, when they were broadcasting the World Cup on their own network!

AlanH

#98 DrP

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:19 PM

Funny how alanh keeps forgetting his past claims. No, not funny at all, that's just alanh for you.

I'd be cautious about engaging with alanh, digital doctor spock. I doubt that even he can keep track of the number of changes he makes to the story as he goes along.

#99 davmel

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:36 PM

What is your evidence that SBS backup transmitters were not used, when they were broadcasting the World Cup on their own network!


Get a clue Alan. The previous 3D trial was jointly broadcast by Broadcast Australia (owned by Macquarie Bank) and TX Australia (joint venture owned by 7/9/10 networks). SBS can't broadcast from their own transmitters because they don't own their transmitters any more!
SBS and Nine just fed BA and TXA the feeds for their respective 3D broadcasts (via the Optus sat) and those two companies did the rest.

#100 alanh

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 12:11 AM

BA and its predecessors have always owned all ABC & SBS TV and radio transmitters since they were sold for around $600 million in the late 1990s
The reason I said SBS is because in main transmitter sites use UHF transmitters. All TXA transmitters in state capitals are VHF. Mt Tambourine they are UHF. rates

http://www.austlii.e...ct/ntnsa1998389
Note that BA does not have to abide by any state laws or pay rates to the council
http://www.broadcast...rporate-profile

http://www.txaustral....au/aboutus.asp only claims if you look at each city to have VHF transmitters. " access for the national broadcasters transmission provider" which is for BA to install UHF backup transmitters.

So TXA does not own any UHF transmitters on any of their Main transmitter sites.

AlanH