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Best Way To Mix Two Antennas


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#1 pig75

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:43 AM

I am in a low signal area and get my signal from Toowoomba but like my wide bay local news it all was working but when they turned the analogue off the Wide Bay digital signal dropped off.
The antenna's are
Posted Image
They are mixed with a kingray amp the frequency for wide bay is 184.500 MHz what is the best way to fix this problem i don't want to mess with the Toowoomba antenna as it is working fine.
Any help would be great
Thanks David

#2 pig75

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:33 AM

Would i be better replacing the wide bay antenna with something like a hills DY14 :question:

#3 mtv

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:00 AM

Firstly David...... where are you located?

Which transmission sites are you receiving signals from?

This information is required to help determine which antennas may be suitable for you.

The Wide bay antenna in your pic looks like a vertically polarised UHF phased array antenna.

If that's the case, it's unsuitable for 184.500 MHz which is VHF.

On top of that, the amp which is diplexing the two signals, would be filtering out the VHF signals if that antenna is connected to the UHF input.

A Hills DY14 is a high-gain VHF yagi, but more info is needed to clarify how you have the two antennas connected.

Could you post more pics of the antennas.... close up shots of each antenna?

Also, Wide Bay doesn't have 184.500 MHz listed in use.... the closest frequency is 184.625 MHz being STQ7

#4 pig75

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:02 PM

Area is Proston
Toowoomba = MT MOWBULLAN, Wide Bay = MT GOONANEMAN

The Toowoomba antenna feeds the kingray amp on the UHF the Wide Bay is on the VHF
Yes the wide bay antena is a vertically polarised UHF phased array antenna. I know it's not the corect antena but it was working fine untill they switched off the anloag signial
I have 2 topfield set top boxes and both say 184.500 MHz

Edited by pig75, 19 February 2012 - 01:15 PM.


#5 nbound

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:04 PM

The Toowoomba antenna feeds the kingray amp on the UHF the Wide Bay is on the VHF
Yes the wide bay antena is a vertically polarised UHF phased array antenna. I know it's not the corect antena but it was working fine untill they switched off the anloag signial
I have 2 topfield set top boxes and both say 184.500 MHz


Well the best way to receive what you want is to get the right antenna for what you are aiming at, yeah sure u can (and have) picked up well out of band channels, but you will experience better results with even an average VHF (Band III) antenna.

#6 pig75

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:15 PM

The Toowoomba antenna is a combo UHF/VHF and it won't get the Wide Bay channels believe me i have tried

#7 mtv

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:41 PM

Wide Bay is serviced by Mt Goonanaman VHF channels except SBS which is UHF.

The VHF channels are vertically polarised and the UHF (SBS) is horizontal.

Darling Downs is serviced by Mt Mowbullan transmissions, which are all UHF

For Mt Goonanaman, you require a cross-polarised band 3 VHF / band 4 UHF antenna.

(You could also use just a Band 3 VHF antenna and get SBS on UHF from Mt Mowbullan, which would make it simpler and more efficient to mix)

For Mt Mowbullan, you could use your UHF phased array antenna, but it needs to be horizontal... not vertical as shown in your pic.

It appears you have the two antennas the wrong way for the transmission sites you've mentioned.

#8 pig75

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:42 PM

The MT MOWBULLAN antenna is fine as i said it is only the MT GOONANEMAN witch i am having problems with since the analog was switched off. i don't know why it was working as it is pointing 90deg from the tower ( the tower is north and the antenna is pointing west)

#9 mtv

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:45 PM

The MT MOWBULLAN antenna is fine as i said it is only the MT GOONANEMAN witch i am having problems with since the analog was switched off. i don't know why it was working as it is pointing 90deg from the tower ( the tower is north and the antenna is pointing west)


I think you need an installer to come and sort it out for you.

#10 pig75

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:06 AM

LOL The person down the road had a installer out charged $500 and all he gets is Toowoomba stations. I think i would rather waste money on antanna's then give it to them. Thats why most people have austar around here as it's cheaper than a installer.

#11 James T Kirk

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:43 AM

Hi pig75

After looking at your situation I believe mtv's advice below is good.

"You could also use just a Band 3 VHF antenna and get SBS on UHF from Mt Mowbullan, which would make it simpler and more efficient to mix.
For Mt Mowbullan, you could use your UHF phased array antenna, but it needs to be horizontal... not vertical as shown in your pic.
It appears you have the two antennas the wrong way for the transmission sites you've mentioned."

You appear to have been fortuotous with the arrangement and that it worked at all for Goonaneman.
If you are of a mind to experiment then try what MTV has said, the path profile from you to Goonaneman if you are on the high areas on the northern end of Proston isn't too bad at all.
After all, if you don't succeed it would not be difficult to restore what you had.

James

#12 mtv

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:17 PM

LOL The person down the road had a installer out charged $500 and all he gets is Toowoomba stations. I think i would rather waste money on antanna's then give it to them. Thats why most people have austar around here as it's cheaper than a installer.


Except for the ongoing subscription cost of Austar, compared to the one-off cost of getting your FTA reception right.

Plus, you don't get the commercial FTA channels via satellite on Austar.

Also, reception 'down the road' does not mean it will be the same at your location.

Being able to receive VHF signals with a UHF antenna but not when using a VHF antenna for the same signals, suggests the signal levels may be causing tuner overload, resulting in a high error rate and loss of reception.

Amplifying those signals will make the problem worse.

You really need to know exactly what the signals are doing and the only accurate way of deternining that is with professional instrumentation.

#13 pig75

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 04:28 PM

What do you recommend for a Band 3 VHF antenna then?
Ok here are my current signal levels on the STB
CH number....MHz....Level %...Quality %
7...................184.5....0.01..........0.03.....NS
9...................198.5....0.01...........12......breaks up
9A..................205.5.....14............23......NS
10..................212.5.....34............38......breaks up
28..................529.5......0.............0.........NS
34..................571.5.....85............82......perfect
37..................592.5.....89............85......perfect
40..................613.5.....80............80......perfect
46..................655.5.....60............68......perfect
49..................676.5....0.01...........30......perfect

Edited by pig75, 20 February 2012 - 04:51 PM.


#14 beeblebrox

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:47 PM

so as suggested a Band 3 VHF antenna vertically polarised. I'd probably be trying not to amplify it at first and diplex it in with your other signal after that amplifier or use an amplifier that only amplifies UHF and just diplexes the VHF like an Kingray MHU34F. This is obviously a guesstimate without signal measurements but certainly would be the first step.

#15 pig75

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:48 PM

Would i be better replacing the wide bay antenna with something like a hills DY14 :question:



#16 James T Kirk

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:39 PM

Hi pig75

Yes

James

#17 pig75

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:44 AM

Thank you

#18 nbound

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:28 PM

LOL The person down the road had a installer out charged $500 and all he gets is Toowoomba stations.


So what? and for doing what? Some jobs might cost $1000, some might cost $100. But by the looks of that price he had a fair bit of work being done. Whatever was done at his house has no bearing on what needs to be done at yours.

I think i would rather waste money on antanna's then give it to them.

The price most installers charge for antennas is around the same or sometimes even a bit less than what you will pay for them at an electrical wholesaler. May as well get the job done right by someone with the right gear and knowhow.

The amount of DIY jobs I consistently see requiring repair boggles the mind.


Thats why most people have austar around here as it's cheaper than a installer.

Hardly... even at the cheapest plans for one standard box it isnt all that long before youve paid the price of even a new antenna system. Well within the expected life of the new system. Hell I service some areas without terrestrial coverage (Satellite FTA [VAST]), and people pay even more (VAST boxes -alone- are approximately $300 per tv set). People still find them cost effective...

#19 pig75

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:11 PM

So what? and for doing what? Some jobs might cost $1000, some might cost $100. But by the looks of that price he had a fair bit of work being done. Whatever was done at his house has no bearing on what needs to be done at yours.


The price most installers charge for antennas is around the same or sometimes even a bit less than what you will pay for them at an electrical wholesaler. May as well get the job done right by someone with the right gear and knowhow.

The amount of DIY jobs I consistently see requiring repair boggles the mind.



Hardly... even at the cheapest plans for one standard box it isnt all that long before youve paid the price of even a new antenna system. Well within the expected life of the new system. Hell I service some areas without terrestrial coverage (Satellite FTA [VAST]), and people pay even more (VAST boxes -alone- are approximately $300 per tv set). People still find them cost effective...


All the installer did was put a new power supply for the kingray masthead amp and moved the antenna abit and you reckon thats worth $500 :no:

#20 nbound

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:22 PM

All the installer did was put a new power supply for the kingray masthead amp and moved the antenna abit and you reckon thats worth $500 :no:


Either your friend doesnt realise what work was actually done, or this installer overcharges by a ludicrous amount. It would cost much less with pretty much anyone else if the latter is the case. Obviously I cant really comment on the veracity of this any further, so ill lay the blame on noone.

Edited by nbound, 23 February 2012 - 07:24 PM.


#21 pig75

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 03:49 PM

Well i got a new antenna $75 delivered and can now get my wide bay stations :)
Posted Image

#22 nbound

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:34 PM

Glad to hear mate :)

#23 andrewlace

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 08:22 PM

fracarro ant303810 1/2 band 3 yagi. Can be mounted vertically or horizontally. recommend checking it out. Looks like laceys.tv website is down at the moment.